Why and when the Dany hate began?

[FuriousGeorge]

Dany doesn't have a sense of justice, just a sense of personal ownership which nobody else is allowed.

Also, pretty hilarious trying to hold burning against Stannis, when you know, Dracarys.

I'm not holding anything against anyone I'm just saying they are both trying to get something they want/achieve something and in the process a lot of fucked up shit is happening. Stannis' believes he is the rightful ruler of Westeros just as Dany does, so how is Dany's sense of entitlement or ownership worse than Stannis'

[Usrnmhsnomning]

I'm not holding anything against anyone I'm just saying they are both trying to get something they want/achieve something and in the process a lot of fucked up shit is happening. Stannis' believes he is the rightful ruler of Westeros just as Dany does, so how is Dany's sense of entitlement or ownership worse than Stannis'

Stannis, by law, is the rightful ruler of Westeros. Dany, by law, is not. Stannis, by rights, wants to defend Westeros from atrocities that are committed by the current holders of the Throne. Dany, by rights, would commit her own atrocities just to get the Throne. I'm just saying Dany isn't comparable to Stannis. Dany doesn't care about the realm, she just wants to rule. It's literally the opposite of Stannis who would rather not rule, but cares too much about the realm to just walk away.

[Gannicus]

A Dance with Dragons.

But if truth be told as soon as she got her Dragons she has been an entitled brat who lacks an understanding of the world outside of her own.

[DaarioKnowsBest]

Dany hate mainly comes from Stannis worshippers who try to MarySue his every thought and action

[Usrnmhsnomning]

Dany hate mainly comes from Stannis worshippers who try to MarySue his every thought and action

The funny thing being I dislike Stannis too and personally am a GNC supporter.

[DaarioKnowsBest]

i said mainly, most of the Dany slander comes from the Stannis is Superman camp

[Jasta11]

I'm not holding anything against anyone I'm just saying they are both trying to get something they want/achieve something and in the process a lot of fucked up shit is happening. Stannis' believes he is the rightful ruler of Westeros just as Dany does, so how is Dany's sense of entitlement or ownership worse than Stannis'

It's the same. The difference is, Stannis has a sense of justice. He only burns convicted criminals (and potentially Edric, but I hold that against him just like I hold the crucifixions against Dany) and shows mercy to his enemies (Renly's bannermen and the wildlings were pretty well treated by ASoIaF standards). Also he doesn't have someone bark out his endless list of titles every damn page, so that's something too.

Dany, on the other hand 1) liberally applies collective punishment 2) orders torture on a whim and 3) doesn't even bother to check if the crucifixion victims are actually guilty, hell she lets the slavers choose 'em. Her sense of justice is the worst in the series, and that's saying something when ''trials'' are resolved by two guys killing the hell out of each other.

So yes, Stannis definitely has a much stronger sense of justice.

EDIT:

i said mainly, most of the Dany slander comes from the Stannis is Superman camp

I'm also not a Stannis fan. So that makes two of us. Also making silly blanket statements is only wasting everyone's time.

[Lord Damian]

Daenerys does think that the slavery is wrong, even then with the Lhazareen

she had one freed out of how many that WERE NOT BUTCHERED, including children? There had to be more than the one that she freed, MMD.

[The Scabbard Of the Morning]

Why even bring up Stannis, Stannis has his own problems but this thread is not about him. Don't try to deflect criticism from Dany by bringing up other characters to muddy the water. If you can't defend Dany's actions on their own terms, admit it and move on.

[Father of Hosts]

Stannis fanboys fear her

Dany hate mainly comes from Stannis worshippers who try to MarySue his every thought and action

i said mainly, most of the Dany slander comes from the Stannis is Superman camp

So how do you feel about Stannis fans?

[tze]

Um...you still missed it. The question of delivering justice was never brought up, that is a fan fabrication it never happened. So to say she knew it was unjust is misguided because it would suggest that she viewed the act of executing the Great Masters as not morally right or fair. There is no where in the text that suggests Dany felt that way, but there is evidence that suggest she felt the opposite however.

Um, what??

She had them nailed to wooden posts around the plaza, each man pointing at the next. The anger was fierce and hot inside her when she gave the command; it made her feel like an avenging dragon. But later, when she passed the men dying on the posts, when she heard their moans and smelled their bowels and blood...

Dany put the glass aside, frowning. It was just. It was. I did it for the children.

She tells herself it was a just act. Clearly she started having doubts about the veracity of her assessment when she saw how horrible the crucifixions were. But she tells herself it was just, a pretty obvious attempt to squash her doubts about whether this act really was just.

But to claim that "the question of delivering justice was never brought up" is pretty obviously wrong.

[FuriousGeorge]

Stannis, by law, is the rightful ruler of Westeros. Dany, by law, is not. Stannis, by rights, wants to defend Westeros from atrocities that are committed by the current holders of the Throne. Dany, by rights, would commit her own atrocities just to get the Throne. I'm just saying Dany isn't comparable to Stannis. Dany doesn't care about the realm, she just wants to rule. It's literally the opposite of Stannis who would rather not rule, but cares too much about the realm to just walk away.

Ok so your one of those people that proper loves Stannis? Take it from someone who is not emotionally committed to either character they are definitely comparable. It is even definitely arguable that Dany could be a better and more compassionate ruler than Stannis.

[DaarioKnowsBest]

Why even bring up Stannis, Stannis has his own problems but this thread is not about him. Don't try to deflect criticism from Dany by bringing up other characters to muddy the water. If you can't defend Dany's actions on their own terms, admit it and move on.

there has to be a comparative bar somewhere, why not the other characters from the same novels. are we supposed to compare her to a 21st century politician?

[Sevumar]

There were some actions of her that I didn't think were smart, but nobody is perfect and I like to keep in mind that she is a young teen girl. Having been one myself previously, it blows my mind that she HAS done what she has. She does have good intentions, but her actions and the advice that she receives are often the wrong thing to do.

Part of what seems to fall by the wayside in these conversations is the fact that Martin's series illustrates the danger of teenage monarchs and lords. These are people who are educated, but have little of the life experience of veteran, effective leaders. This is most painfully obvious in Dany's storyline, but it's also true of Joffrey and Robb.

Dany gets some points for good intentions, but her intentions can't feed, clothe, and administer the city of Meereen and its inhabitants. She's made a huge mess, ruined the lives of hundreds of thousands of people, and she continues to blunder without any real sign that she's making a meaningful effort to improve. She didn't have to do any of these things, and while I respect that she wants to take responsibility for her actions, she's just not equipped to succeed and she can't treat Meereen as a lab.

Honestly, in AGOT Daenerys WAS characterized as a savior. Now, in ADWD, we see her stumble, and then start to find herself. I think people just lost hope in her....

I didn't see any evidence that Dany was "finding herself" in any kind of positive way. She seemed to be learning exactly the wrong lessons.

[mindchap]

I'm sure this has been mentioned so forgive me if I'm repeating someone else, GRRM needed to let the dragons grow, he has already said that he had wanted a five year gap in between two of the books, that most likely would have been the stint in Mereen that way it would have happened but the readers would not have had to observe it. Plus as someone else once pointed out to me on here characters with more fans are naturally going to have more haters, but since all the characters are actually just Martin then really they hate what he did, as there is actually no Dany or Stan or Bran etc etc.

But I also have to agree that show Dany isn't helping things. My sister has started reading the books but only just recently and she has watched the show up until now and she thinks the show Dany makes her look at book Dany differently because people tend to forget this is a young girl after all, not the grown woman on HBO.

[FuriousGeorge]

Why even bring up Stannis, Stannis has his own problems but this thread is not about him. Don't try to deflect criticism from Dany by bringing up other characters to muddy the water. If you can't defend Dany's actions on their own terms, admit it and move on.

So you think we should judge Dany and Stanns on different standards? How does that work?

[FuriousGeorge]

It's the same. The difference is, Stannis has a sense of justice. He only burns convicted criminals (and potentially Edric, but I hold that against him just like I hold the crucifixions against Dany) and shows mercy to his enemies (Renly's bannermen and the wildlings were pretty well treated by ASoIaF standards). Also he doesn't have someone bark out his endless list of titles every damn page, so that's something too.

Dany, on the other hand 1) liberally applies collective punishment 2) orders torture on a whim and 3) doesn't even bother to check if the crucifixion victims are actually guilty, hell she lets the slavers choose 'em. Her sense of justice is the worst in the series, and that's saying something when ''trials'' are resolved by two guys killing the hell out of each other.

So yes, Stannis definitely has a much stronger sense of justice.

EDIT:

I'm also not a Stannis fan. So that makes two of us. Also making silly blanket statements is only wasting everyone's time.

Yes they both have an idea of justice and Stannis' is certainly more defined that Dany's but I don't think you can argue that either one is superior to the other.

[Leif]

It's amusing how most Dany/Stannis threads sooner or later turn into Stannis vs Dany threads, no matter their original topic.

[Nami]

This Stannis adoration

I have no idea where it came from lol While reading you can sense he's there to move someone else's arc. He'll die soon enough I think

[Jasta11]

Yes they both have an idea of justice and Stannis' is certainly more defined that Dany's but I don't think you can argue that either one is superior to the other.

Well superior is a subjective term. I would definitely prefer Stannis on the Iron Throne because of his sense of justice. But then I would also prefer to get rid of that silly chair altogether, so take that with a grain of salt.

All I'm asking is that people accept that Dany's not perfect and that her actions are very much open to scrutiny, like every other character in the series. Whenever someone likes her is none of my concern, they definitely have a right to. But when someone says the crucifictions are justice or justified, I feel obligated to call BS, because they're objectively not.