Why and when the Dany hate began?

[Cas Stark]

I don't understand why the same question is asked over and over again because the answer is always the same.

It seems to me that most people who changed their view of Dany from a sympathetic to either a much less sympathetic or to an unsympathetic character did so as a result of:

(1) mass killing of the entire male ruling class in Astapor

(2) retaliatory cruxifiction without regard to guilt

(3) torture of the winesellars daughters

*other negative issues depending on the person include her generally poor results in ruling in slaver's bay, dragon neglect and some go all the way back to burning Mirri, entitlement mentality, lack of interest in Westeros history and various other smaller issues.

[MRHD]

ADWD was when she became infuriating to me. Poor decisions, no forward movement in her plot... the strong and determined character of ASoS was now flighty, weak-willed and shallow. A decade without a PoV chapter made me expect more, I guess. Aegon did in one book what Dany still seems nowhere near doing: invading Westeros and working to restore the Targaryen claim to the IT. Blackfyre or not, he's more of a Targaryen and more worthy of Westeros than she'll ever be.

[Faydra]

It can't be the show. I liked her in the first season quite a lot and the actress is good looking. In my opinion it's not Dany that people hate but the repetitive storyline. Everyone wants her to go in westeros but apparently she takes two steps back for every step ahead. She should take the iron throne and then free the slaves.

[Jasta11]

Yes I read your posts. I asked you to explain your entirely objective moral standpoint seeing as you seem to think that one exists. Where is your reply? If you believe that for something be objectively right morally speaking it needs to be based on a primitive conception of the rule of law then I simply cannot accept that, as it takes a Western conception of law and justice and essentialises it as a natural or universal idea, when it clearly isn't.

I said that applying collective punishment to potentially innocent people is objectively not justice no matter how you look at it, whenever from a Westerosi or real life standpoint. Whereas killing traitors is justice from a Westerosi standpoint; the method is overly harsh, but it's still just.

[FuriousGeorge]

I said that applying collective punishment to potentially innocent people is objectively not justice no matter how you look at it, whenever from a Westerosi or real life standpoint. Whereas killing traitors is justice from a Westerosi standpoint; the method is overly harsh, but it's still just.

So what you are saying is that you find Stannis' sense of justice to be more aligned with your personal ideas of how the law should work and what constitutes morality and for that reason you favour him. Objectivity simply does not come into it.

[Spinebreaker]

I found Dany MUCH more interesting and readable when she was crucifying people and applying arbitrary justice. When she had belief in herself.

[WinterKing]

She was my third favorite(after Bran and Jon) until ADWD, after that I started to notice how she would be a terrible ruler.

[Cas Stark]

So what you are saying is that you find Stannis' sense of justice to be more aligned with your personal ideas of how the law should work and what constitutes morality and for that reason you favour him. Objectivity simply does not come into it.

The people Stannis burned were traitors, according to Westerosi law. I may be misremembering, but I believe that is not ambiguious.

The people who were slaughtered in Astapor and who were crucified, what crime did they commit, even according to Dany herself? She has all men wearing tokars killed, everyone in a social class determined by their mode of dress. And she crucifies the people without any regard as to their guilt, none.

So, I don't see how objectively there is not a difference. At Stannis bothers to make a judgement according to law. Dany just says "kill these guys in tokars" and then she says "you guys over there..you pick 163 people who will be crucified".

There is a huge difference.

[Waylin Stark]

Her actions in ADwD. Bad decisions, horrible choices.

[Ser Luke.]

I've never hated her. She was annoying as hell in a few ADWD chapters, but other than that she hasn't bothered me. Her storyline in ASOS was fantastic.

[GoldenFleece]

There's a big difference between dislike and Hate, finding a character boring or this and that doesn't match the hate directed at her. And the worst bit is ppl get quotes from the book to prove her insanity or imminent insanity when the book says no such thing. I think cercei, tywin, stannis, Ramsay, walder Frey, roose and many more have all done worse but she has more hate threads than all of those combined. The only difference being she represent a threat to people's favourite character or house, so they make her into a villain to justify wanting her mad and dead.

I have also noted this Rhaegarsjoy. Some posters will sensationalise one of Dany's actions making it sound far worse from what it actually says in the text.

Instead of killing the elite of Astapor, she now kills EVERYONE at Astapor.

Instead of torturing two daughters, she now tortures two children in front of their father.

Instead of trying to save her brother as best she could, she is now a kinslayer who had designs on her brother's throne.

And so on. It is ridiculous and dishonest. Some posters here could get a job working on the Yunkish Propaganda Service :-) .

[Frey Pentos]

I have also noted this Rhaegarsjoy. Some posters will sensationalise one of Dany's actions making it sound far worse from what it actually says in the text.

Instead of killing the elite of Astapor, she now kills EVERYONE at Astapor.

Instead of torturing two daughters, she now tortures two children in front of their father.

Instead of trying to save her brother as best she could, she is now a kinslayer who had designs on her brother's throne.

And so on. It is ridiculous and dishonest. Some posters here could get a job working on the Yunkish Propaganda Service :-) .

Spot on. I've often compared the haters to sensationalist tabloid journalists.

[LordBloodraven]

She's only a young girl and know nothing of the ways of life and 15 yo are quite boring when they make lousy decisions and won't accept to hear hard truths.

[The Great Walrus]

She's only a young girl and know nothing of the ways of life and 15 yo are quite boring when they make lousy decisions and won't accept to hear hard truths.

Couldn't have said it better myself. :agree:

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

I don't hate Dany. I strongly dislike her, which started when she ordered the torture of a child because of some unrelated anger. Her whole Dance storyline is what makes some people hate her.

[SaltyDornish]

Honestly I didn't mind Dany at first, but I started getting peeved after aSoS that she was just dawdling around in Essos instead of focusing on the goal: Westeros. Aegon in many senses got straight down to it which is why I prefer him over Dany.

I suppose the annoyance became dislike in aDwD where her naivity really came out and her hypocritical nature showed itself when she married Hizdahr, a slaver, rapist and murderer. Furthermore, her treatment of Quentyn was horrible and so disrespectful, even Barristan said she shouldn't have done it but being a stubborn egotistical Targ she just ignored him, and being a Martell/Dorne fan that was it for me. I have loathed her ever since, sure Quentyn wasn't that handsome, but so what, she could easily have sealed a great alliance and sailed to reclaim Westeros, but nah Daario's hotter and I quite like my rapist slaver husband. That's why I dislike her *shock horror* (preparing for backlash) :box:

(I don't hate any character apart from Cersei & Euron)

[Master Forel's Fro]

I don't hate Dany. I strongly dislike her, which started when she ordered the torture of a child because of some unrelated anger. Her whole Dance storyline is what makes some people hate her.

All the characters are flawed and those with power do worse things with that power but you don't see five million threads with the word hate in it.

I have also noted this Rhaegarsjoy. Some posters will sensationalise one of Dany's actions making it sound far worse from what it actually says in the text.

Instead of killing the elite of Astapor, she now kills EVERYONE at Astapor.

Instead of torturing two daughters, she now tortures two children in front of their father.

Instead of trying to save her brother as best she could, she is now a kinslayer who had designs on her brother's throne.

And so on. It is ridiculous and dishonest. Some posters here could get a job working on the Yunkish Propaganda Service :-) .

I agree it would be nice to discuss all characters rationally especially as Dany is one of the main characters in the books.

[Frey Pentos]

II strongly dislike her, which started when she ordered the torture of a child because of some unrelated anger.

There it is again. How old was the winesellers daughter by the way? I have no idea but she was questioned because of the murders of unsullied that were taking place. Not nice putting someone to the question, but pretty tame by the standards of Westerosi rulers.

[GoldenFleece]

I don't hate Dany. I strongly dislike her, which started when she ordered the torture of a child because of some unrelated anger. Her whole Dance storyline is what makes some people hate her.

This is interesting because her Dance Storyline is only a section of her arc, in fact the whole book is the whole Initiation section (the section of the lowest ebb) of her Hero's Journey Arc that follows Dany's story to a tee. I made the mistake of judging Theon for one part of his arc - to my discredit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monomyth

The Road of Trials - Meereen

The Meeting with the Goddess - Her Freed Slaves

Woman as Temptress - Daario

Atonement with Father - Drogon in the Pit

Apothesis - The Dothraki Sea

Not saying Dany is THE hero, or the only hero. But she follows a Hero's arc.

[Cas Stark]

There it is again. How old was the winesellers daughter by the way? I have no idea but she was questioned because of the murders of unsullied that were taking place. Not nice putting someone to the question, but pretty tame by the standards of Westerosi rulers.

That's fine, but then it makes her no better than Roose Bolton or Tywin Lannister or the Mountain if she's willing to have innocent people tortured on the off chance that it will yield some useful information.