[BOOK SPOILERS] Discussing Sansa IV - Season 5...

[Kittykatknits]

I have found this article about Sansa`s costumes at the TV show, and I would like to hear your opinions about it...

I like the idea of heavier clothing in later series almost acting as a shield or armour for Sansa to protect herself with.

I read recently that the main inspiration for Sansa's clothing in the show is her line about courtesy being a lady's armor. That led to the clothing choices in the show and everything grew from there.

Sansa in the show is a flatter character overall and she seemed to be all over the place as far as character development. I didn't like most of the KL stories this season and Sansa was a big part of it. Seems the writers decided to make her marriage a much bigger piece than it was in the books and it left me with the same feeling Dany's story in season two did. It's filler that doesn't really do anything but give certain characters extra scenes. It's not great material.

[Mladen]

Bumping a thread...

With the new season coming in less than 2 weeks, I encourage all of you to discuss how Sansa's storyline will be handled this year. All opinions, theories etc are more than welcomed...

[Rashtibram]

From a critic who has seen the first few episodes:

Apparently, Sansa is approached by Dontos in 4x01, and given the amethysts, but he does not pose an escape plan. From the sound of it she is simply whisked out of KL in the confusion of Joffrey's death.

I never really understood the complaint that she wasn't "active" enough in the show (it's not like she wasn't constantly looking for opportunities to escape in S2 and S3), and I actually quite like her on-screen portrayal, but this has already gotten quite a few Sansa fans riled up.

[juanml82]

From a critic who has seen the first few episodes:

Apparently, Sansa is approached by Dontos in 4x01, and given the amethysts, but he does not pose an escape plan. From the sound of it she is simply whisked out of KL in the confusion of Joffrey's death.

I never really understood the complaint that she wasn't "active" enough in the show (it's not like she wasn't constantly looking for opportunities to escape in S2 and S3), and I actually quite like her on-screen portrayal, but this has already gotten quite a few Sansa fans riled up.

Actually, she is sort of active in season 2 during Blackwater (goading Joffrey into getting killed, teasing Tyrion) and at the beginning of season 3, including the whole thing with Baelish. But then they give her some very stupid lines. Critics who've seen the first three episode aren't impressed by Sansa (and Stannis) in those chapters, so I guess we'll see. Then again, if it happens as the spoiler you've written, then maybe she's showing a more active role with her escape than in the books.

[Mladen]

From a critic who has seen the first few episodes:

Apparently, Sansa is approached by Dontos in 4x01, and given the amethysts, but he does not pose an escape plan. From the sound of it she is simply whisked out of KL in the confusion of Joffrey's death.

I never really understood the complaint that she wasn't "active" enough in the show (it's not like she wasn't constantly looking for opportunities to escape in S2 and S3), and I actually quite like her on-screen portrayal, but this has already gotten quite a few Sansa fans riled up.

That is interesting... I mean, she couldn't have been whisked out of KL that easily... I saw on trailer her running, and the same dress on her during some wedding shots, so I guessed it would just mean the same thing as in the books.

As for her activeness in the book vs show, it's more about complaint that Sansa isn't that naive as was portrayed in the show. I mean, gushing over Loras that much, "will my family come to my wedding" etc. It's simply a feeling that they retrograded her character from season 2 back to season 1. It's just frustrating because there is a sentiment that they don't know how to handle intelligently her storyarc and/or to transmit her inner struggle to the screen.

Actually, she is sort of active in season 2 during Blackwater (goading Joffrey into getting killed, teasing Tyrion) and at the beginning of season 3, including the whole thing with Baelish. But then they give her some very stupid lines. Critics who've seen the first three episode aren't impressed by Sansa (and Stannis) in those chapters, so I guess we'll see. Then again, if it happens as the spoiler you've written, then maybe she's showing a more active role with her escape than in the books.

I would agree on this... Stupid lines are the worst and it simply destroyed the character to the point where you don't know what they are doing. Plus, the entire wedding with Tyrion should have been dealt more carefully. And the cherry on the cake, Tyrion got more mourning time for Cat and Robb in episode 10 than Arya and Sansa combined...

Also, guys, can you point me to the links where you found those recaps from the critics who has seen the S4 first episodes? Thanks...

[Stan the Man Baratheon]

Also, guys, can you point me to the links where you found those recaps from the critics who has seen the S4 first episodes? Thanks...

Here. http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/86909-little-questions-that-dont-fit-anywhere-else/page-12

[TheKitttenGuard]

That is interesting... I mean, she couldn't have been whisked out of KL that easily... I saw on trailer her running, and the same dress on her during some wedding shots, so I guessed it would just mean the same thing as in the books.

As for her activeness in the book vs show, it's more about complaint that Sansa isn't that naive as was portrayed in the show. I mean, gushing over Loras that much, "will my family come to my wedding" etc. It's simply a feeling that they retrograded her character from season 2 back to season 1. It's just frustrating because there is a sentiment that they don't know how to handle intelligently her storyarc and/or to transmit her inner struggle to the screen.

I would agree on this... Stupid lines are the worst and it simply destroyed the character to the point where you don't know what they are doing. Plus, the entire wedding with Tyrion should have been dealt more carefully. And the cherry on the cake, Tyrion got more mourning time for Cat and Robb in episode 10 than Arya and Sansa combined...

Also, guys, can you point me to the links where you found those recaps from the critics who has seen the S4 first episodes? Thanks...

This is mentions many times and it is one of the most twisted and distorted scenes that deal with Sansa. It delivery by Sophie Turner was one of reaching hope, and not some delusion.

Always interesting in the books you have all these thoughts of Sansa of songs and stories that are quite silly and naive. It was a moment where they wanted to convey some of this. Sansa knew the answer but she could not help but hope and ask.

The problem with Sansa is that in the books she was a piece to be used in a game between the Lannister and the Tyrells. The wedding though happen much sooner in the book. The wedding plotting was far longer and it kept Sansa in that mode too long in the end.

Content was so change that Sansa doing what she did in the book will make her view as a bad character. It would of best if they did find a means to avoid her kneeling though.

[Colonel Green]

Then again, if it happens as the spoiler you've written, then maybe she's showing a more active role with her escape than in the books.

Huh?

The spoiler is the exact opposite. She has no role in her own escape.

This is mentions many times and it is one of the most twisted and distorted scenes that deal with Sansa. It delivery by Sophie Turner was one of reaching hope, and not some delusion.

No, that scene was clearly framed as a joke at Sansa's expense, complete with Shae eyeroll (just like her not knowing the word "shit" or the scene with Margaery or any of her scenes with Loras). Sophie Turner herself justifies them on the basis that Sansa is pretending to be dumb (even though that's clearly not how they're written and shot), not that, on the surface, she doesn't look dumb.

[juanml82]

Huh?

The spoiler is the exact opposite. She has no role in her own escape.

No, that scene was clearly framed as a joke at Sansa's expense, complete with Shae eyeroll (just like her not knowing the word "shit" or the scene with Margaery or any of her scenes with Loras). Sophie Turner herself justifies them on the basis that Sansa is pretending to be dumb (even though that's clearly not how they're written and shot), not that, on the surface, she doesn't look dumb.

We have to see how it plays. And, again, the people who saw the episode aren't impressed. In the books, the escape plan was given to her. The only thing she had to do was to sneak to the Godswood at night.

If Dontos doesn't give her a escape plan, the moment Joffrey dies there are two possibilites:

Someone grabs her and forcefully take her away, which makes her passive in her own escape

She seizes the initiative and leaves, to be picked up by LF on her way out. If the shots of Sansa in the trailer are about her escape of KL, it seems she gets away alone. But, again, we'll have to see the episode to judge.

[Rashtibram]

We have to see how it plays. And, again, the people who saw the episode aren't impressed. In the books, the escape plan was given to her. The only thing she had to do was to sneak to the Godswood at night.

If Dontos doesn't give her a escape plan, the moment Joffrey dies there are two possibilites:

Someone grabs her and forcefully take her away, which makes her passive in her own escape

She seizes the initiative and leaves, to be picked up by LF on her way out. If the shots of Sansa in the trailer are about her escape of KL, it seems she gets away alone. But, again, we'll have to see the episode to judge.

But we already kind of know it's the first option. The poster who was answering all our questions confirmed as much.

I agree though, we should wait to judge until we've actually seen the episode ourselves.

[Colonel Green]

If Dontos doesn't give her a escape plan, the moment Joffrey dies there are two possibilites:

Someone grabs her and forcefully take her away, which makes her passive in her own escape

She seizes the initiative and leaves, to be picked up by LF on her way out.

Um, we know it's the first one.

The second wouldn't make the slightest bit of sense, anyway.

[PhoenixFlame]

I want to see more of S2 Sansa! Sophia is a lovely actress and seems to really nail the character. But there's only so much you can do with some of the stupid lines she had in S3. I didn't dislike all the S3 changes in the context of the show, but what started, to me, as a cute scene in the final ep devolved into facepalming at Sansa not knowing the word shit.

Not sure if I'm an optimist or Devil's Advocate, but I'm hoping her writing improves in S4. D&D love their schemer characters, so they might get a lot of mileage of Sansa learning from LF. Given how they also like making LF janky as hell, I think they'll keep their interactions as creepy as in the books.

[TheKitttenGuard]

No, that scene was clearly framed as a joke at Sansa's expense, complete with Shae eyeroll (just like her not knowing the word "shit" or the scene with Margaery or any of her scenes with Loras). Sophie Turner herself justifies them on the basis that Sansa is pretending to be dumb (even though that's clearly not how they're written and shot), not that, on the surface, she doesn't look dumb.

Shae tells you the ship goes to Volantis because that is what is true. She does not make up a world to be a better. What will be odd if she gave a false hope of coddle her.

Can I eyeroll be that Shae know Sansa is smarter and annoyed she is playing dumb?

Also, good that you know what Sophie Turner is thinking while she is playing Sansa.

Actor do not just read the words, they act. Their whole self needs to be viewed and not just listening at what they are speaking. In the scene with Shae about marriage to Loras, Sophie delivery was one that Sansa did know what she saying will not be but she so desperately want it to be so. To just ignore is a disservice to what Sophie Turner did which is be Sansa.

[Colonel Green]

Can I eyeroll be that Shae know Sansa is smarter and annoyed she is playing dumb?

No, because that's clearly not the intent of the scene.

Actor do not just read the words, they act. Their whole self needs to be viewed and not just listening at what they are speaking. In the scene with Shae about marriage to Loras, Sophie delivery was one that Sansa did know what she saying will not be but she so desperately want it to be so. To just ignore is a disservice to what Sophie Turner did which is be Sansa.

Sophie Turner herself has said that those scenes make Sansa look dumb. Her justification is that it's an act (even though it clearly isn't from how those scenes are shot and written).

[hodor23]

I think Sansa has handled herself pretty well. She's in the most difficult position of all Stark kids and she can't trust anyone.

"most difficult position"--> that's debatable for sure! Jon and Arya are in pretty tight spots themselves (in book and show), and Robb has no head!

[TheKitttenGuard]

No, because that's clearly not the intent of the scene.

Sophie Turner herself has said that those scenes make Sansa look dumb. Her justification is that it's an act (even though it clearly isn't from how those scenes are shot and written).

Like for the article link. What you are calling a justifacation is really coming to me as an explanation of the character intent.

Sansa did not put on a "act" in ASOIAF?

[juanml82]

Um, we know it's the first one.

The second wouldn't make the slightest bit of sense, anyway.

Damn. I guess I'll have to go and smack me in the head for still having hope in Sansa and Stannis arcs in the show.

Shae tells you the ship goes to Volantis because that is what is true. She does not make up a world to be a better. What will be odd if she gave a false hope of coddle her.

Can I eyeroll be that Shae know Sansa is smarter and annoyed she is playing dumb?

Also, good that you know what Sophie Turner is thinking while she is playing Sansa.

Actor do not just read the words, they act. Their whole self needs to be viewed and not just listening at what they are speaking. In the scene with Shae about marriage to Loras, Sophie delivery was one that Sansa did know what she saying will not be but she so desperately want it to be so. To just ignore is a disservice to what Sophie Turner did which is be Sansa.

Well, I don't think anyone saw it that way. And she doesn't need to play dumb when she's alone with her new BFF. I don't mean to sound rude, but shows don't come with subtitles underlining what the screenwriters intended. If the audience doesn't see it, it's not there.

And it's a pity, because they only needed to change a few words to completely change the character: make her say she wishes her family could go to the wedding instead of asking if they'd go and boom, whole different character.

[Colonel Green]

Like for the article link. What you are calling a justifacation is really coming to me as an explanation of the character intent.

Sansa did not put on a "act" in ASOIAF?

There's a whole language that TV and film use to show the audience that a character is putting on an act (GoT itself uses it), and it's completely absent from those scenes.

[TheKitttenGuard]

Damn. I guess I'll have to go and smack me in the head for still having hope in Sansa and Stannis arcs in the show.

Well, I don't think anyone saw it that way. And she doesn't need to play dumb when she's alone with her new BFF. I don't mean to sound rude, but shows don't come with subtitles underlining what the screenwriters intended. If the audience doesn't see it, it's not there.

And it's a pity, because they only needed to change a few words to completely change the character: make her say she wishes her family could go to the wedding instead of asking if they'd go and boom, whole different character.

Yes shows do not come with subtitles. That is why you watch the actor. Listen how they say is as important as what is said. Having to see Sansa give a look of wanting to be lie to.

Sansa let her mind run wild a bit with songs and story. Being wisked away from a terrible place with these wonderful people that maybe she will get to see her family again.

ASOIAF Sansa never let her fantasy get the best of her?

[Colonel Green]

ASOIAF Sansa never let her fantasy get the best of her?

She never thought that her family would get to come to her wedding, which is completely delusional and would require her to completely forget everything that has and is happening around her. That's not "fantasy" or "naivete".