Ice Dragons and the Starks

[totalblind]

What are your thoughts on the Ice Dragon? Do you think it is a methaphor for Jon or is he in Winterfell? And do you think that only Starks can command him as they can warg in him?

[TheonGreyjoy]

We already have too many dragons in the book. The only ice dragon is Jon snow. There wont be any creature flying from either Winterfell or The Wall

[LordStoneheart]

We already have too many dragons in the book. The only ice dragon is Jon snow. There wont be any creature flying from either Winterfell or The Wall

Too early to say that so concretely. George has one of the earliest stories involving an Ice Dragon, or so his essay The Heirs of Turtle Castle claims, so it wouldn't surprise me if an Ice Dragon were to show up. also, I disagree. I would love it if there were whole roaming packs of dragons in the story.

As to OP, it would make more sense that Jon becomes one of the dragon heads/dragon riders and is merely known as Jon the Ice Dragon than an actual one to show up, but I won't consider it an ass pull when the Ice Dragon from the crypts of Winterfell shows up.

[totalblind]

I think there might be more dragons.This is my opinion and I don't think GRRM meant either AA/PTWP as a methaphor so I would believe there is an ice dragon somewhere,either under winterfell or beyond the wall.And I do believe only a warg can tame it.I am not sure if the Dragon Horn can affect them.

[totalblind]

Too early to say that so concretely. George has one of the earliest stories involving an Ice Dragon, or so his essay The Heirs of Turtle Castle claims, so it wouldn't surprise me if an Ice Dragon were to show up. also, I disagree. I would love it if there were whole roaming packs of dragons in the story.

As to OP, it would make more sense that Jon becomes one of the dragon heads/dragon riders and is merely known as Jon the Ice Dragon than an actual one to show up, but I won't consider it an ass pull when the Ice Dragon from the crypts of Winterfell shows up.

Me neither.I would cheer for them. :D

[a free shadow]

I read it as a sign towards Jon. But it still was great to read the speculations how Summer might have seen a dragon or how the hot streams might be somehow connected to the local embassy of dragons.

It would be too much dragons if they were around the same as Daenerys', but I would mind less, if they were very different Northern beasts.

[TheonGreyjoy]

Too early to say that so concretely. George has one of the earliest stories involving an Ice Dragon, or so his essay The Heirs of Turtle Castle claims, so it wouldn't surprise me if an Ice Dragon were to show up. also, I disagree. I would love it if there were whole roaming packs of dragons in the story.

As to OP, it would make more sense that Jon becomes one of the dragon heads/dragon riders and is merely known as Jon the Ice Dragon than an actual one to show up, but I won't consider it an ass pull when the Ice Dragon from the crypts of Winterfell shows up.

And what would this creature sleeping in the crypts for thousand of years eat? We know from the stories that Balerion had an immense appetite. Danys dragons already eating good, so maybe it was eating ghost and dust for many years? as for the prophecy im pretty sure it goes: the dragon have three heads, theres nothing about dragons or three riders.

[Tumnas the Torpid]

And what would this creature sleeping in the crypts for thousand of years eat?

Stark shite.

[a free shadow]

And what would this creature sleeping in the crypts for thousand of years eat? We know from the stories that Balerion had an immense appetite. Danys dragons already eating good, so maybe it was eating ghost and dust for many years?

There is a possibility of hybernation. And also Mellisandre's belief that there is a dragon in Westeros, sleeping in stone. When Bran looked around after the fire of Winterfell, he saw gargoyles of the castle lying around on the ground. It is hard to imagine, how such damage was caused to stone structures. Maybe a dragon awakening and struggling out?

A lesser possibility is the crypts/tunnels network being his area. Another possibility is a dragon egg that got hatched in burning Winterfell.

[totalblind]

And what would this creature sleeping in the crypts for thousand of years eat? We know from the stories that Balerion had an immense appetite. Danys dragons already eating good, so maybe it was eating ghost and dust for many years? as for the prophecy im pretty sure it goes: the dragon have three heads, theres nothing about dragons or three riders.

I see but when an Ice dragon really appears

I want to see your reaction then.Bears sleep for so long yet they don't eat.If you are made from ice do you think you will need food? Or the Ice dragon could be a wight.There are many possiblities so you cannot deny them all.

[The Holy Goat]

I would like for Jon Snow to get and Ice Dragon in addition to Ghost and Mormont's raven. He could start his own little zoo. And no, I wouldn't consider it an asspull since Jon repeatedly references Ice Dragons. That said, I find it unlikely, and would be surprised if it really existed.

[totalblind]

The wind was gusting, cold as the breath of the ice dragon in the tales Old Nan had told when Jon was a boy.^[2] ”

“ The road beneath the Wall was as dark and cold as the belly of an ice dragon and as twisty as a serpent. ^[3] ”

“ The wind was blowing from the east along the Wall, cold as the breath of the ice dragon in the tales Old Nan used to tell.^[4]

”

Here GRRM mentions the Ice Dragon in DwD.If you think he mentions it just for the sake of it you are wrong.There is a meaning.

[The Boar of Gore]

The ice dragon should be a servant of the Great Other and fight the fire dragons.

[Victarion Chainbreaker]

Ice dragons used to be normal dragons, but now they have bright blue eyes and can freeze a man solid with their breath.

[LordStoneheart]

And what would this creature sleeping in the crypts for thousand of years eat? We know from the stories that Balerion had an immense appetite. Danys dragons already eating good, so maybe it was eating ghost and dust for many years? as for the prophecy im pretty sure it goes: the dragon have three heads, theres nothing about dragons or three riders.

Read the Ice Dragon. It doesn't necessarily have to be a reptile that breathes ice. It could be a sentient being made of ice like Adara's dragon was. completely with icicle fangs.

Also, the Others are described by the author as the "sidhe made of ice." So the above isn't too different than the series so far. Also, the Others and Adara's dragon seem to perish in a very similar way.

[The Bastard of Summer]

Beware this is about to be a jumble of thoughts............

Here's the thing a lot of folks don't believe that the Ice Dragon(s) really exist in ASOIAF, except as a star, and in old childs tale told to the Stark children by old Nan. Also to other children in the Seven Kingdoms.

GRRM did write a childrens book called the Ice Dragon. Some people don't agree that the tale takes place in the world of ASOIAF

As to if they will have a role in the series people tend to think not because they would be introduced too late into the series.

*Also it it often said that GRRM is to great of a writer to revisit such works or whatever just have it play a part is this story blah blah blah blah something of that nature

As a pet theory, I have thought about them making an appearance in the story as late as it may be but, not until the greater host of the Others appear.

Will one of the living Starks ride one? I think not.

I do think however there is something underneath the ice, stone, and snow of the wall. Could it be an ice dragon? Maybe.

Was it put into the ice because it was the threat and the spells help keep it there? Maybe

I because curious about this whole Ice Dragon thing because Jon Snow sure uses the term a lot to describe how cold the wall is to walk beneath. (Just skim through the Jon chapters in ADWD)

I've had the book for a while I just never read it. So I finally sat down to do so when I noticed his constant description of "the tunnels are cold like walking down the gullet of and Ice Dragon etc..)

Here's what I kinda threw together (I posted this once in another thread also)

It's just my opinion that

1. Ice Dragons do exist.They live in the lands of always winter. they are a different type of magic than FIRE breathing dragons.

2. They are the GREAT OTHER. because..."and when the Ice Dragon opened it's great mouth, and exhaled, it was no fire that came streaming out, the burning sulfurous stink of lesser dragons. The Ice Dragon breathed cold. Ice formed when it breathed, warmth fled. Fires gutted and went out, shriven by the chill. Trees froze through their slow secret souls, and their limbs turned brittle and cracked fro their own weight. Animals turned blue and whimpered and died, their eyes bulging and their skin covered with frost. The Ice Dragon breathed death into the world; death, and quiet and cold."

3. I think they may make an appearance in ASOIAF. I dont they they ever dissappeared. I think they were sleeping along with the others and when they awoke, the others

woke.

Meaning I think they are what give the Others their power.

Im not sure as to why they just don't fly over the wall (I haven't gotten that far in thinking out the details yet)

4. The others Others Originated from Starks. Not that Starks are evil. I just think it was a younger Stark son/daughter who wasn't in line to inherit......

5. I think that Jon Snow is not the only result of a Stark/Targaryen offspring. I think there was someone before him. (I just had to throw that in there)

6. I do think there is a dragon under the ice of the Wall. It was how the wall was built i believe how else would the walls get so dang high?

7. I think the wildlings have indeed found the horn of Joramun, and they think they know everything, but they really don't and in blowing the horn they break the wall and free

the dragon,

Oh yeah just a few facts from the Ice Dragon story

-Adara is the little girls name in the story

-She is born in the long winter/her mother dies giving birth to her

-She is a pale blue and Ice Cold when she is born(she stays this way). She had pale blonde hair. She never cries.

-Its not known if the Ice Dragon bring the cold or if the cold brings the Ice Dragon (like with White Walkers)

-Adara has an older sister (Teri) and a older brother (Geoff)

-Teri works at the Inn by the Crossroads (sounds like the riverlands)

-The father ran a farm and was gruff looking kind like a bear (a Mormont maybe?)

-Adara could play/lie for hours in the snow without gloves

-Father had a Brother named Hal who was a dragon rider for the king.

-Dragons can NOT stand the cold so they fly south for the winter

-Ice Dragons are rare, even in the times during the story

-When Ice Dragons are seen it is a sign of a very long hard and bitter winter, and spring comes later and later each year sometimes without a harvest

-An Ice Dragon had been seen flying across the face of the moon the night Adara was born

-People set fires and prayed at them to keep the Ice Dragon away (R'hollor worship?)

-Ice dragons can not be tamed like fire breathing dragons, but Adara rode one on her forth birthday and every year after

-The breath of and Ice Dragon killed three fire breathing dragons and its rides, when it touched the first dragons wing. it froze immediately and broke into pieces

-Where ever an Ice Dragon lands, when the thaws of spring and summer come, the area it landed in never thaws and stays unnaturally cold and barren

[The Bastard of Summer]

The cyvasse game between Aegon and Tyrion provokes an interesting lesson on Aegon's part:

Now, we don't know how much of the world was affected by the Long Night, but given that the Others have been referenced in Essos as well as Westeros, there's an excellent chance that the Long Night did actually affect at least a decent-sized part of the world. I wonder if Aegon's "lesson" here might actually have implications for the Others---for if you need dragons to conquer the world, and the Others essentially conquered "the world" (or at least, a large part of it), then wouldn't it stand to reason that the Others had dragons? And as it makes no sense for the ice-loving Others to have access to fire-breathing dragons, the only "dragons" the Others could plausibly have had access to would be ice dragons.

And the "ice dragons" idea might have interesting implications for the "ice spiders" that we've been told, on multiple occasions, the Others supposedly ride:

Because we've seen the Others ride the dead, yet there's been no sign of them ever riding anything remotely resembling "ice spiders". But perhaps GRRM stuck a hint about the "ice spiders" in the character of Varys? After ADWD, a number of theories were promulgated that Varys the Spider was actually a member of House Blackfyre---which, if true, would make him a "dragon". If "The Spider" turns out to actually be a dragon, then perhaps Varys's identity (a spider that is really a dragon) might serve as a literary hint that the "ice spiders" that stories say the Others ride are actually warped tales of ice dragons?

...you can find this entire thread here

[totalblind]

...

I really like your thoughts. No "living" Starks.I would love to see Wolf Head Robb on top of one.

[The Bastard of Summer]

I really like your thoughts. No "living" Starks.I would love to see Wolf Head Robb on top of one.

Thanks!...but if there isn't a literal ice dragon, I thought of something for that too.......

[The Bastard of Summer]

Okay I posted something on this before but it got deleted. So I will make another attempt and see how it goes. I would like to connect it all but it's 3am and it's hard to be coherent at this time so work with me people.

I don't think that we are told the AA/TPTWP prophecy in it's entirety.

We know of AA from Mel, who read it in a book from Ashaai.

We know when it comes to Mel she is faulty at her best.

We know of TPTWP from HotU, Rhaegar, Aegon who had it from a woods witch. We dont know what was even said to Aegon. It seems that a lot would depend on the exact words that Aegon was told.

But we do know that the woods witch told Aegon that the PTWP would be born from his line.

So if we are all in sync, AA and TPTWP is the same person. If Mel says it's Stannis and the woods witch says the person would come from Aerys and Rhaella. Then either Mel is wrong, or the woods witch has been misquoted. Stannis cant be AA/TPTWP because he doesn't come from the Aerys+Rhaella bloodline.

Now we also have it from Mel that there is power in King's blood, right? What if she is 100% right bout this?

She says that kings blood can awaken stone dragons right?

What if the "stone dragons" was mistranslated. Could it be that the translation could really mean wake dragons from "ice" and not stone? (Stick with me Im not talking about literal ice dragons again hehe). Could waking dragons from "stone, ice" be symbolic?......

If R+L=J is true, then by his father Jon is a dragon, yes?

Im gettin there here it comes......

After this whole lets kill Jon stunt, Jons body is put on Ice in the ice cells. Mel has looked into those fires of hers and seen what must take place because she realizes Jon Snow is to be AAR. Stannis who is the rightful king of westeros by his brothers right of conquest, and being his brothers rightful heir, has kings blood returns to the wall victorious after ridding the world of the Boltons. He is sacrificed by Mel to revive Jon. His blood is specifically required because it not only has to be a sacrifice from the bloodline of a king, but the/an actual king? Therefore kings blood would be reviving "waking" a Targaryen dragon (Jon) from "stone,ice".

So i guess it's not really missing portions of the prophecy, but just really bad interpetation? Instead of being "AA will be reborn...blah blah blah....with the power to raise dragons from stone" it's more like "AA will be a person born of a dragon sigil and need to be raised from "stone,ice".

Anywho thoughts? I need outside perspective to help me think this thing through.....