Tiki Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 I saw a thread getting closed earlier because a mod claimed that the book and show have their own canon. I think this is true to an extent--for example, the book and the story have different scripts so obviously they're both different worlds. Not everything is covered in the show, as well, so there's more canon material in the books than in the show.But let's consider Talisa's death. Why would GRRM have Talisa killed off if there was a fake pregnant Jeyne? Surely Robb's child would have a gigantic effect on the plot--I mean, there's another King to start a war over. Why would the show and books not have that in common? It would be an incredibly stupid move.People often say that there is a fake Jeyne because they have vastly different hips. Jaime said that Jeyne had narrow hips whereas Catelyn said that she had good hips for child birth. But in a Conan interview just a few weeks ago, GRRM admitted that he mixed up eye color and other things in the books: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlMLiTxtgEwIf a fact can have huge potential to be important storywise, then the show and books have that fact in common. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 Jeyne wasn`t pregnant, we knew that long before show... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Direwolf of the Starks Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 Jeyne wasn`t pregnant, we knew that long before show... yeah agreed. It was on the app I believe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kienn Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 So a fetus can be the next king in the north, but jon, bran, rickon, sansa, and arya can't do anything... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiki Posted June 24, 2013 Author Share Posted June 24, 2013 There's no need to nitpick an example. The logic still applies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joluoto Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 Book canon is not Show canon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Pepper Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 No, the show should not be used to tell us about the books. They are separate canons. And as Mladen pointed out, we already learned from a semi-canon thing about the books that Jeyne was not pregnant. The only thing the show might be able to do is offer a lightbulb moment that encourages us to look at different things. Continuing with your example, Jeyne didn't die in the books while Talisa died. There is nothing that says the show is required to follow the books exactly (in fact, the show doesn't do that since the first episode). But, perhaps Talisa dying might remind us that there are more dangerous or important characters for future plots. We spend a lot of time talking and thinking about Jeyne, but very little time talking and thinking about Sybelle, Jeyne's mother. Sybelle has actually already proven to be scheming and dangerous. The show, in this instance, might encourage us to find evidence about how a different Westerling might impact the future plot. This doesn't always work. Some things have been changed completely. As an easy example, Dany is completely fire and heat proof on the show. No amount of searching in text will make her book character fire and heat proof. Another example is Mel has never actually met Arya and there isn't any evidence at all that she's aware that the R'hllor funerary practice works. Osha and Rickon didn't actually travel with Bran and co. And so on and so forth.If the show sets off a lightbulb for things in the book, cool. Then you can go look in the books to see what might be available. If you choose to bring this information to the forum, cool. Just be sure you are using book evidence and not show canon to argue your point. The books inform the show, but it doesn't work the other way around. Evidence about what has happened or will happen in the books will be found in the books. If it's not, then it's something the show created for whatever reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruella Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 It's pretty clear though that some things will be included by showrunners because they know what's going to happen in the books. Of course, it is all a guesswork. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiki Posted June 24, 2013 Author Share Posted June 24, 2013 Your entire reply ignores this point:It is impractical to change important plot points in the transition from the books to the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blood of the dragoon Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 It MAY tell us something. It may just be different. Who knows?The show is d&d's baby, while the books are Georges. He can't 'make' them do anything, though they are in on some of grrm's secrets that we're not privy to.It's tricky at best to infer like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 No, it isn't. Plot points have already been changed in that transition.Show canon =/= book canon: that's a fact. As a result, drawing inferences about the books on the basis of show canon is unreliable and therefore pointless. Imagine if the LOTR movies had been coming out contemporaneously with the books: it's the same thing. You'd have people talking about how Tolkien 'really' intended for Denethor to be less sympathetic, or expecting the Entmoot to come out against joining the war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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