[Book spoilers]: GoT producers expect 8 seasons

[Khal-a-bunga]

Also, isn't The Hound lame at this point, anyway? I think it'd be even more difficult to win a battle against your massive undead brother, in that case.

[Rashtibram]

The only way I can see them not killing of Ygritte, is if they get rid of Mance Rayder, give most of Mance's role to Tormund, and make Ygritte Tormund's daughter like some have suggested. But even that is highly unlikely.

Strikes me as very unlikely. I feel like people are way too worried that the show is gonna drastically alter aspects of the books. Crazy ideas like killing off Brienne, or keeping Ygritte alive, have little precedent and no merit. People were all worried that Gendry and Mel were gonna create a shadow baby which was then going to kill Joffrey, and it ended up playing out pretty much exactly as it does in the books. I could probably find other examples if I cared to search, but point is the show-runners obviously have an enormous amount of respect for the source material. They change things to simplify already convoluted storylines or to limit over-expensive scenarios, and they do seem to have a low 'cheesiness-radar' which has resulted in some poor decisions (the changes to Shae and Talisa/Jeyne come to mind), but wherever possible they have always opted to stay true to the script. The changes made to certain arcs in season 2 were in some cases a mistake, but they stand alone in the grand scheme of things; the only ones I took issue with were the changes made to Jon's and Theon's arcs, and both can be attributed to budgetary issues. Keeping Ygritte alive would not simplify anything, as even though it would eliminate the need for the introduction of Val, I maintain that the romance between Jon and Ygritte would pretty much complicate everything else. Would the NW still elect/accept Jon as LC if he was keeping his wildling girlfriend upstairs? And would Ygritte be ok with taking up Val's mundane duties in the book while her old lover is marching around as King Crow? That's not to mention Stannis' reaction. It's just not reasonable, and there's no precedent as it would complicate matters more than it would simplify them.

[Khal Porno]

Replacing Ygritte with Val makes precisely...0% sense. How exactly does Jon become LC, or for that matter return to CB without being executed if he's got a wildling GF on his arm? Not to mention the impact that Ygritte's death has on Jon's character arc.

Well I think it's pretty clear that they are no longer an item, considering she made an arrow pin cushion out of him last we saw of them. Jon's betrayal and loss of her love can fulfill the same narrative function as her death, so that aspect of his character wouldn't be "ruined" with her survival.

However, I don't think they will combine her with Val. It's more likely that they would cut Val instead of combining her with Ygritte.

[Rashtibram]

Well I think it's pretty clear that they are no longer an item, considering she made an arrow pin cushion out of him last we saw of them. Jon's betrayal and loss of her love can fulfill the same narrative function as her death, so that aspect of his character wouldn't be "ruined" with her survival.

As I said in my other post, I don't think Ygritte will be content with performing Val's role in the books seeing as she just tried to kill him. Not to mention the more important point which is that Ygritte's death is an essential turning point in Jon's character development, and keeping her alive would make him become a very different character.

[protar]

Well I think it's pretty clear that they are no longer an item, considering she made an arrow pin cushion out of him last we saw of them. Jon's betrayal and loss of her love can fulfill the same narrative function as her death, so that aspect of his character wouldn't be "ruined" with her survival.

However, I don't think they will combine her with Val. It's more likely that they would cut Val instead of combining her with Ygritte.

Regardless of whether or not they're "still an item" there's just too much to write around having the girl Jon slept with still alive and at Castle Black. And as Rickon says above me how is she supposed to play Val's cooperative role if she's now raging at Jon?

Val makes up a large part of Jon's ADWD arc and is set up for greater importance in TWOW, so I sincerely doubt she's cut. If they can cast Styr they can cast Val, not to mention she's exactly the type of character D+D love. Speaking of Styr, his being cast pretty strongly indicates that we're getting Alys and her wedding to the Magnar, which in turn suggests D+D are sticking closer to the books than some people think.

[Rashtibram]

Val makes up a large part of Jon's ADWD arc and is set up for greater importance in TWOW, so I sincerely doubt she's cut. If they can cast Styr they can cast Val, not to mention she's exactly the type of character D+D love. Speaking of Styr, his being cast pretty strongly indicates that we're getting Alys and her wedding to the Magnar, which in turn suggests D+D are sticking closer to the books than some people think.

Agreed. I think season 4 can be done brilliantly with the same level of accuracy employed with seasons 1 and 3, and season 5 (AFFC/ADWD, hopefully) can be done with the same level of accuracy as season 2; in that they'll alter certain arcs to make them more interesting/relevant/filmable, but will get their characters to the same place they are towards the end.

[Danolf]

I know it can a pretty unpopular opinion but AFFC and ADWD have tons of chuffa, so its not only doable to make them fit in one season but also quite necessary. You don't want the whole Mereen thing going on for 2-3 seasons unless you want the viewers to start cutting their veins in despair. I feel like George was just trying to buy time with his proposal so he can slack...er, have more time to finish the last 2 books. But no, thanks.

[JagLover]

The innate issue with the entire series is that you've got two supernatural forces (the Others and Dany with her dragons) whose eventual conflict you established very early on are going to be the true endgame of the series. And to emphasize this, you even have multiple characters acknowledge that all of the other conflicts you have going on aren't really important in the grand scheme of things.

This works in a trilogy where you can see where that endpoint lies. But after the decision was made to stretch this out to 7 books (hopefully no more), by playing your hand so early, you need to put your endgame elements in holding patterns while you tell the other stories you want to tell. But because you've established right from the very first book that this other stuff isn't really nearly as important, it makes the audience impatient to see you get to your endgame. The most frustrating parts of the more recent books all have to do with there being very little progress on the Dany and Others plots. I don't know how you fix this though because as soon as serious shit starts happening on either front, you've initiated the endgame of the series.

That has been my frustration with the way the Dany storyline has stalled (in terms of the others I think things have been building for a while), but apparently we are only two books from the end and Dany is still hundreds of miles away. I disagree that bringing them to the fore means an immediate end game. You could easily see two books worth of material if Dany had already landed in Westeros.

[Vengeance]

I think if we get to 2017, ADoS about to go into production but the book unfinished, there's a decent possibility George will come to an agreement with HBO to film the series as normal but have a two year gap, circling the production issues but giving him enough time to get the book out. Even if we don't get TWoW until 2015, I think he can manage his grand finale by early 2019.

[Lord Elrosir]

lolwut

[Weeping Sore]

Um, how would that happen?

I laid it out up-thread a few posts back if you're interested. If Jaime counts as one of the accused in the incest/treason, and not just a witness, I believe his confession could determine the outcome.

[Joyful Union]

I think if we get to 2017, ADoS about to go into production but the book unfinished, there's a decent possibility George will come to an agreement with HBO to film the series as normal but have a two year gap, circling the production issues but giving him enough time to get the book out. Even if we don't get TWoW until 2015, I think he can manage his grand finale by early 2019.

And what happens give him a 2 year gap (which they won't, ever) and he still doesn't finish, which is very likely? The man is, to say the least, not good with deadlines.

[Vengeance]

lolwut

You got sommat on your mind eh Eh EH

[Vengeance]

And what happens give him a 2 year gap (which they won't, ever) and he still doesn't finish, which is very likely? The man is, to say the least, not good with deadlines.

Then they show the series - at least they'd have tried. The showrunners seem keen to avoid a catchup but have production issues to consider - this is the only card they could play really. The last one should be the easiest to write you'd think, it's his endgame he's had in mind since the beginning. If Martin can't do it in 3-4 years and the show catches up it will irrevocably stain his legacy - if he wants to avoid that he'll move heaven and earth to get it done

[Lord Elrosir]

I hope you don't seriously believe that the executives at HBO care about GRRM releasing his book before the show.

D&D know the broad strokes, and will be able to deliver the finale on screen. Will it be as epic as the books? No. Will there likely be differences in the show versus the books in the way of getting to the final scenes? Probably.

Thinking HBO is going to put their number one show on hold for two years for some author is naive at best.

[House Ross]

Guess I wont be watching the show after a certain point. It will be interesting to see the ratings drop, which the most certainly will, once the show surpasses the books.

[Lord Elrosir]

I think you overestimate the amount of the audience that were book readers prior to the show plus those who would put aside one of the best shows on TV for a book with no release date.

[Vengeance]

I hope you don't seriously believe that the executives at HBO care about GRRM releasing his book before the show.

D&D know the broad strokes, and will be able to deliver the finale on screen. Will it be as epic as the books? No. Will there likely be differences in the show versus the books in the way of getting to the final scenes? Probably.

Thinking HBO is going to put their number one show on hold for two years for some author is naive at best.

Naive at best? Oh how you WOUND me. I said there's a decent chance, and there is. HBO are pursuing other projects with GRRM, it's in their interest to maintain a decent working relationship. The Sopranos showed that a two year break can work without any serious implications. The showrunners and executives have both expressed worry about it catching up, it is at least conceivable that they'll film it but hold back on airing for upto 12 months to give George time. Having a

break anywhere else is out of the question, but for the final season it's an option they may choose to explore. Lets hope it doesn't come to that.

Now off to bed with no pudding, you tit

[Khal-a-bunga]

Guess I wont be watching the show after a certain point. It will be interesting to see the ratings drop, which the most certainly will, once the show surpasses the books.

It would be a fairly insignificant number, I'd say, but I'm sure there would be some drop in the ratings. The question is, would you avoid the internet altogether? Because those non-readers who were continuously spoiled (and who will continue to be for at least another two seasons), will probably do their best to get some revenge. And if you're going to get spoiled anyway (like I probably would, considering the some of the sites I visit, including this one, WiC.net, and YouTube on a pretty regular basis), wouldn't you rather see it in the show than read about it as an unmarked spoiler is some random comments section? Decisions, decisions...

[Vengeance]

It will be impossible to avoid. The Red Wedding was covered by every major news outlet, entertainment site, even broadsheet newspapers - GoT is a massive phenomenon. Not to mention friends, family and that bloke down the pub. I'm not overly worried yet though, if we get to the arse end of 2014 with no sign of TWoW, then I'll start to worry.