[BOOK SPOILERS]: Neil Marshall to direct Season 4, Ep 9

[Queen of Whores]

Episode 10:

A burned child for Daenerys

Election of the new LC king-of-the-north-like

Tyrion killing Shae and his father, so full of rage and anger

Baelish saying "only Cat"

Can't get better than that.

True, and if done right it could be the best finale since season 1.

[Onna Lewyys]

Episode 10:

A burned child for Daenerys

Election of the new LC king-of-the-north-like

Tyrion killing Shae and his father, so full of rage and anger

Baelish saying "only Cat"

Can't get better than that.

That'd be great, but it won't happen. They've done three seasons now, and Episode 10 is always a denouement, always an aftermath. The burned child will likely open S5 for Dany, and S4 will likely end with Tyrion sailing for Pentos.

[The Dragon has three heads]

That'd be great, but it won't happen. They've done three seasons now, and Episode 10 is always a denouement, always an aftermath. The burned child will likely open S5 for Dany, and S4 will likely end with Tyrion sailing for Pentos.

Yep.

I think tyrions trial by combat will end an ep-8 or 9 with Oberyns tragic end, and Tyrion vomiting all over himself. Cut to black.

That should leave ep 9 for the wall and perhaps mereen? If Marshall did both, in the one ep it could be a cool juxtaposition.

[Onna Lewyys]

I think tyrions trial by combat will end an ep-8 or 9 with Oberyns tragic end, and Tyrion vomiting all over himself. Cut to black.

That's how I've always imagined that episode ending too! :) Episode 8 for me.

[YouSnowNothing]

I don't think we should assume that the Battle at the Wall (or at least the climax of it) will take up the whole episode just because Blackwater did. If it is episode 9, I imagine we'll get some KL stuff too, particularly Shae and Tywin's deaths. I think we could very well get all of the election in 10 as well. I wouldn't be surprised if Sam's involvement was simplified to a rousing speech at the last moment and is over in a couple of minutes flat. Almost certainly it'll be simplified to begin with to only two real candidates, Jon and Slynt.

I can't see Tywin/Shae and Stannis' arrival in the same episode.They're the two biggest climaxes of ASOS, and I think having both in the same episode would blunt the impact of both.

[Ser Luke.]

That's how I've always imagined that episode ending too! :) Episode 8 for me.

Agreed, episode 8 will be perfect.

[DaveyJoe]

They could easily fit the election in episode 10. Why are people so worried about this? They have condensed so many plot lines so far, I don't see why this would be an exception.

[King Tommen]

I'm also not understanding why people believe that Jon's election to LC would take any more than an episode to depict. It's not like it took that long in the books and it also involved a number of NW individuals that the show will almost assuredly not be including (Cotter Pyke, Denys Mallister etc). It seems like 3 separate scenes interspersed through an episode would be plenty to depict this efficiently.

[protar]

I'm also not understanding why people believe that Jon's election to LC would take any more than an episode to depict. It's not like it took that long in the books and it also involved a number of NW individuals that the show will almost assuredly not be including (Cotter Pyke, Denys Mallister etc). It seems like 3 separate scenes interspersed through an episode would be plenty to depict this efficiently.

I agree the election itself will probably only take up a single episode. However I think some set up is also required. Say the battle is in E7, then E8 can be the aftermath episode setting up the new status quo, E9 can be Stannis offering Jon lordship of Winterfell + introduction to contesters for LC and E10 is the election.

[YouSnowNothing]

I'm also not understanding why people believe that Jon's election to LC would take any more than an episode to depict. It's not like it took that long in the books and it also involved a number of NW individuals that the show will almost assuredly not be including (Cotter Pyke, Denys Mallister etc). It seems like 3 separate scenes interspersed through an episode would be plenty to depict this efficiently.

Because it's not just the LC election - it's all the reaction to Stannis' arrival, Stannis' offer of Winterfell, Jon trying to make his decision - alongside the election itself, with all of Sam's political manoeuvring (which the show will likely include since it's the only thing of real substance Sam will get to do in S4, and is a really great moment for him), which will require Pyke and Mallister. All of the post-Stannis Wall stuff is four chapters, which is an awful lot for one location to get in any episode, let alone the finale that requires dropping in on at least half a dozen other locations.

[DaveyJoe]

Because it's not just the LC election - it's all the reaction to Stannis' arrival, Stannis' offer of Winterfell, Jon trying to make his decision - alongside the election itself, with all of Sam's political manoeuvring (which the show will likely include since it's the only thing of real substance Sam will get to do in S4, and is a really great moment for him), which will require Pyke and Mallister. All of the post-Stannis Wall stuff is four chapters, which is an awful lot for one location to get in any episode, let alone the finale that requires dropping in on at least half a dozen other locations.

This is all under the assumption that the show plays out exactly like it did in the books. Don't assume that. As the show goes on, more and more of the story is changed. The major elements are all there, but the details are tweaked by the producers. They obviously like a big climactic moment for the 9th episode, and the Battle at the Wall is the most obvious choice for that episode. It might be a good idea to start dealing with the fact that Jon's election in the show will be different than how it played out in the book, or maybe even pushed back to season 5.

[Onna Lewyys]

They obviously like a big climactic moment for the 9th episode, and the Battle at the Wall is the most obvious choice for that episode.

No, it's not. Stannis's forces crush the wildlings easily. No big battle.

[YouSnowNothing]

This is all under the assumption that the show plays out exactly like it did in the books. Don't assume that. As the show goes on, more and more of the story is changed. The major elements are all there, but the details are tweaked by the producers. They obviously like a big climactic moment for the 9th episode, and the Battle at the Wall is the most obvious choice for that episode. It might be a good idea to start dealing with the fact that Jon's election in the show will be different than how it played out in the book, or maybe even pushed back to season 5.

It is under that assumption, but I'm making that assumption because I think what's in the books will make good TV. Jon's decision whether or not to take Winterfell is more compelling if he can agonise over it for a whole episode, and if he doesn't know he's in the running to be LC. And Sam's political games are a great moment for his character - really, it's the climax of him becoming a stronger person and trusting in his own abilities, starting with the 'Slayer' moment and ending with securing Jon the election. To not have these scenes is to damage Jon and Sam as characters, and D&D know that.

The show won't include everything from the books, of course, but it's been a fairly accurate adaptation as far as adaptations go so far, and above all they've hit all the biggest character moments so far with accuracy. There's no reason to suggest that Jon and Sam's biggest character moments won't be done similar justice.

[Onna Lewyys]

It is under that assumption, but I'm making that assumption because I think what's in the books will make good TV. Jon's decision whether or not to take Winterfell is more compelling if he can agonise over it for a whole episode, and if he doesn't know he's in the running to be LC. And Sam's political games are a great moment for his character - really, it's the climax of him becoming a stronger person and trusting in his own abilities, starting with the 'Slayer' moment and ending with securing Jon the election. To not have these scenes is to damage Jon and Sam as characters, and D&D know that.

The show won't include everything from the books, of course, but it's been a fairly accurate adaptation as far as adaptations go so far, and above all they've hit all the biggest character moments so far with accuracy. There's no reason to suggest that Jon and Sam's biggest character moments won't be done similar justice.

I agree wholeheartedly. And I'd like to add that the show actually tends to follow the format of one chapter per character per episode, so the idea that they're likely to condense events from multiple chapters is actually not very supported. The only story that leaps to mind that they've condensed is Arya's, and that's because it's repetitive and contains a lot of wandering around the forest.

[DaveyJoe]

Jon's decision whether or not to take Winterfell is more compelling if he can agonise over it for a whole episode, and if he doesn't know he's in the running to be LC.

Stannis might not even offer him Winterfell in the show. Robb's will was completely cut from the show, maybe because D&D know that this storyline ends up going nowhere. They also haven't given Stannis too many sympathetic moments so far, I'm hoping that will change when he's at the Wall, but who knows. Also his agonizing was purely internal monologue in the books, which we know doesn't translate well on screen. If he does have to make the choice it will probably be a minute of brooding before saying that the Wall is his home now or something.

And Sam's political games are a great moment for his character - really, it's the climax of him becoming a stronger person and trusting in his own abilities, starting with the 'Slayer' moment and ending with securing Jon the election. To not have these scenes is to damage Jon and Sam as characters, and D&D know that.

I think Sam has been great in the show so far, and they will likely keep this in the show, I just don't think it will require more than one episode. I seriously doubt they will cast Pyke or Mallister. D&D have said they are at maximum capacity as far as characters go. They've already announced the new major characters they were casting and none of them were in the NW. They did announce Throne would be returning. I suspect some changes about who is actually in the running for Lord Commander, they will likely use characters already established in the show, similar to them using Gendry in place of Edric Storm.

The show won't include everything from the books, of course, but it's been a fairly accurate adaptation as far as adaptations go so far, and above all they've hit all the biggest character moments so far with accuracy. There's no reason to suggest that Jon and Sam's biggest character moments won't be done similar justice.

I'm sure they will, I just think all of this can be accomplished in one episode.

[ejhawman]

Jon's storyline is the major constraint on the season, and many of the analyses so far work well. I favor having Oberyn/Gregor as the cliffhanger for episode 7 or 8, Stannis' arrival at the Wall crowding everything else out in the following episode, then Tyrion/Tywin/Shae along with the election. Best if the election as a whole takes at least two episodes. I would compess things a bit more earlier in the season to make way, so that Jon's surprise election is the final scene of 9, then Sam & co. are sent off in episode 10, which so far has seemed to serve the show as setup for the next season. Then Tyrion's escape could end episode 10 and season 5 could start with his trip across the sea, burning screen time on the way to Meereen.

[franko99]

Stannis might not even offer him Winterfell in the show. Robb's will was completely cut from the show, maybe because D&D know that this storyline ends up going nowhere. They also haven't given Stannis too many sympathetic moments so far, I'm hoping that will change when he's at the Wall, but who knows. Also his agonizing was purely internal monologue in the books, which we know doesn't translate well on screen. If he does have to make the choice it will probably be a minute of brooding before saying that the Wall is his home now or something.

I think Sam has been great in the show so far, and they will likely keep this in the show, I just don't think it will require more than one episode. I seriously doubt they will cast Pyke or Mallister. D&D have said they are at maximum capacity as far as characters go. They've already announced the new major characters they were casting and none of them were in the NW. They did announce Throne would be returning. I suspect some changes about who is actually in the running for Lord Commander, they will likely use characters already established in the show, similar to them using Gendry in place of Edric Storm.

I'm sure they will, I just think all of this can be accomplished in one episode.

Did they? Can you please tell us which character are they casting from the Iron Island, and Meereen? Also, I've read they're casting Dalla, will they cast Val too? I'm sure you can tell us since, apparently, you know all the casting details

ETA; Also, Pyke and Mallister are not "major characters" they can be announced later, remember last season they announced Martyn Lannister's cast only a few weeks before it started

[DaveyJoe]

Did they? Can you please tell us which character are they casting from the Iron Island, and Meereen? Also, I've read they're casting Dalla, will they cast Val too? I'm sure you can tell us since, apparently, you know all the casting details

ETA; Also, Pyke and Mallister are not "major characters" they can be announced later, remember last season they announced Martyn Lannister's cast only a few weeks before it started

I don't know all the casting details. Of course there will be minor characters that will still be announced. If Pyke and Mallister are just minor characters then they may not be a part of the multi-episode NW election arc that so many seem to be expecting... I don't know how it's going to play out, I'm just speculating. What we do know is that Neil Marshall is directing an episode at the wall with Mance Rayder. It's not exactly a leap to think he'll be directing a battle episode considering the reason why they ultimately hired him for Blackwater. Considering the climactic nature of the past 3 penultimate episodes, it's not a leap to think that a Neil Marshall battle episode will be the penultimate episode of season 4. With those two likely guesses it's not a leap to guess that there will be 1 episode for a potentially condensed election or it will be pushed back to season 5. I think it's foolish to dismiss those theories just because that would mean the event wouldn't play out exactly like it did in the books, when we already have precedent for minor-to-major changes from the source material.

[protar]

I don't know all the casting details. Of course there will be minor characters that will still be announced. If Pyke and Mallister are just minor characters then they may not be a part of the multi-episode NW election arc that so many seem to be expecting... I don't know how it's going to play out, I'm just speculating. What we do know is that Neil Marshall is directing an episode at the wall with Mance Rayder. It's not exactly a leap to think he'll be directing a battle episode considering the reason why they ultimately hired him for Blackwater. Considering the climactic nature of the past 3 penultimate episodes, it's not a leap to think that a Neil Marshall battle episode will be the penultimate episode of season 4. With those two likely guesses it's not a leap to guess that there will be 1 episode for a potentially condensed election or it will be pushed back to season 5. I think it's foolish to dismiss those theories just because that would mean the event wouldn't play out exactly like it did in the books, when we already have precedent for minor-to-major changes from the source material.

Cotter Pyke and Denys Mallister would only have to be in 2 episodes: their introduction in say E9, and the election in E10. However I can easily see one or both of them being cut. For example Bowen Marsh could become the third contender for LC and Sam will just persuade him to side with Jon.

[The Dragon has three heads]

I don't know all the casting details. Of course there will be minor characters that will still be announced. If Pyke and Mallister are just minor characters then they may not be a part of the multi-episode NW election arc that so many seem to be expecting... I don't know how it's going to play out, I'm just speculating. What we do know is that Neil Marshall is directing an episode at the wall with Mance Rayder. It's not exactly a leap to think he'll be directing a battle episode considering the reason why they ultimately hired him for Blackwater. Considering the climactic nature of the past 3 penultimate episodes, it's not a leap to think that a Neil Marshall battle episode will be the penultimate episode of season 4. With those two likely guesses it's not a leap to guess that there will be 1 episode for a potentially condensed election or it will be pushed back to season 5. I think it's foolish to dismiss those theories just because that would mean the event wouldn't play out exactly like it did in the books, when we already have precedent for minor-to-major changes from the source material.

Yep.