The Dragon has three heads Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 I don't know all the casting details. Of course there will be minor characters that will still be announced. If Pyke and Mallister are just minor characters then they may not be a part of the multi-episode NW election arc that so many seem to be expecting... I don't know how it's going to play out, I'm just speculating. What we do know is that Neil Marshall is directing an episode at the wall with Mance Rayder. It's not exactly a leap to think he'll be directing a battle episode considering the reason why they ultimately hired him for Blackwater. Considering the climactic nature of the past 3 penultimate episodes, it's not a leap to think that a Neil Marshall battle episode will be the penultimate episode of season 4. With those two likely guesses it's not a leap to guess that there will be 1 episode for a potentially condensed election or it will be pushed back to season 5. I think it's foolish to dismiss those theories just because that would mean the event wouldn't play out exactly like it did in the books, when we already have precedent for minor-to-major changes from the source material.Yep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Fixit Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 Cotter Pyke and Denys Mallister would only have to be in 2 episodes: their introduction in say E9, and the election in E10. However I can easily see one or both of them being cut. For example Bowen Marsh could become the third contender for LC and Sam will just persuade him to side with Jon.Wouldn't it make sense if Alliser Thorne is one of the contenders? He's a memorable and well-established character from Season 1 and we know he returns to GoT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
protar Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 Wouldn't it make sense if Alliser Thorne is one of the contenders? He's a memorable and well-established character from Season 1 and we know he returns to GoT.No it wouldn't make sense. The only reason a third and possibly fourth contender is needed is so that Sam can persuade them to give all of their votes to Jon. Sam's never going to persuade Alliser to side with Jon.And thinking about it logically we'll probably need a 4th person anyway. If we assume that it plays out roughly as in the book Jon isn't even running for LC until Sam's scheming. So if only one person gives Jon his vote Janos will still be in a position to be elected. It's only when two contenders unite and give their votes to Jon that it pushes things over in Jon's favour. Of course how they could do it is have Jon running for LC initially and roughly neck and neck with Janos and then Marsh sides with Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Fixit Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 No it wouldn't make sense. The only reason a third and possibly fourth contender is needed is so that Sam can persuade them to give all of their votes to Jon. Sam's never going to persuade Alliser to side with Jon.And thinking about it logically we'll probably need a 4th person anyway. If we assume that it plays out roughly as in the book Jon isn't even running for LC until Sam's scheming. So if only one person gives Jon his vote Janos will still be in a position to be elected. It's only when two contenders unite and give their votes to Jon that it pushes things over in Jon's favour. Of course how they could do it is have Jon running for LC initially and roughly neck and neck with Janos and then Marsh sides with Jon.You're operating from 1-on-1 book-to-show perspective. For all we know, it may be changed. It makes perfect sense for Jon's opponent in the election to be someone we are well acquainted with instead of a brand new guy popping out of nowhere.EDIT: Ah, I forgot about Slynt. I guess we'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franko99 Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 Wouldn't it make sense if Alliser Thorne is one of the contenders? He's a memorable and well-established character from Season 1 and we know he returns to GoT.The thing is, we don't need an established character to run for the election, Pyke and Mallister are not that in the book either, all they need to do is say "those are the commanders of the Shadow Tower and Eastwatch (both castles were mentioned several times in the show, people will know what they are), in the end the sole purpose of those characters is to give their votes to Jon. Neither Thorne nor Slynt will work fot that since they hate Jon.No it wouldn't make sense. The only reason a third and possibly fourth contender is needed is so that Sam can persuade them to give all of their votes to Jon. Sam's never going to persuade Alliser to side with Jon.And thinking about it logically we'll probably need a 4th person anyway. If we assume that it plays out roughly as in the book Jon isn't even running for LC until Sam's scheming. So if only one person gives Jon his vote Janos will still be in a position to be elected. It's only when two contenders unite and give their votes to Jon that it pushes things over in Jon's favour. Of course how they could do it is have Jon running for LC initially and roughly neck and neck with Janos and then Marsh sides with Jon. :agree: , is not that complicated and only need two small castings for that, I don't see a reason to cut the whole thing.I mean even if I don't agree with all the changes, most of them have budgetary or simplification reasons for it to be done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Fixit Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 The thing is, we don't need an established character to run for the election, Pyke and Mallister are not that in the book either, all they need to do is say "those are the commanders of the Shadow Tower and Eastwatch (both castles were mentioned several times in the show, people will know what they are), in the end the sole purpose of those characters is to give their votes to Jon. Neither Thorne nor Slynt will work fot that since they hate Jon.Depends on how they choose to portray the election, what beats they are going for. If the show chooses to play up the suspense angle presenting the election as a longer affair with uncertain outcome, it is beneficial to have a candidate the audiences are invested in. It gives them the feeling that anything is possible. But as I already said, I forgot about Slynt, so my whole point about Alliser's role is moot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tommen Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 There is also the possibility that characters like Cotter Pyke and Denys Mallister can simply be mentioned as part of the election story but never shown (or played by extras with no lines). You could have a scene with Sam and Pyp for example where Pyp is telling Sam about the status of the vote and who is in front or behind and Sam then comes up with his idea to rig things without them expressly showing the other parties involved.I tend to think they'll find some way to limit the number of NW characters introduced unless they are going to play a meaningful role in future seasons. I have serious doubts about Donal Noye being on the show as an example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Fixit Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 To be perfectly honest, I never really liked all the Sam's shenanigans to have Jon elected. I don't know... it just seems so silly and hokey, it makes the NW look like a bunch of morons if the election of the Lord Commander can be influenced so easily by Sam of all people. Jon, both his book and show versions, is already a pretty reactive character for the most part up to this point in the story. Making even his election a "rigged" affair is something that never rang true with me.In the books, it can be argued it was Martin's trick because it would otherwise be hard to justify all these veterans of the Watch voting for a 14-year old kid to lead them, especially in these times, with Others returning. In the show, where Jon is noticeably older, I feel they can circumvent all this stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouSnowNothing Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 I think Pyke and Mallister will be in. They're not really characters that have to be introduced - they don't need any characterisation. It just needs to be established that "there's these two dudes, they're joint lead and won't side with each other. but they will side with jon". Very simple and easily explained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaphodbrx Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 The problem with the whole Night's watch election thing is that Jon is really sux in the TV show. Seriously, he's just really, really bad and stupid. I can't see this bumbling idiot getting elected LC. They will probably screw it up with Stannis appointing Jon while Melisandre is stroking his dick or something, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted July 8, 2013 Author Share Posted July 8, 2013 Cotter Pyke and Denys Mallister would only have to be in 2 episodes: their introduction in say E9, and the election in E10. However I can easily see one or both of them being cut. For example Bowen Marsh could become the third contender for LC and Sam will just persuade him to side with Jon.This is a good idea. Bowen Marsh has been cast (though he only had a few lines in several episodes of S1) and doing this sets him up well for Jon's ADWD storyline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tommen Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 This is a good idea. Bowen Marsh has been cast (though he only had a few lines in several episodes of S1) and doing this sets him up well for Jon's ADWD storyline.Whenever Bowen Marsh is introduced into the story (as I assume he will) they will not be using the extra who was in S1, they'd be casting a real actor. Kind of like the Beric Dondarrion deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
protar Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 Whenever Bowen Marsh is introduced into the story (as I assume he will) they will not be using the extra who was in S1, they'd be casting a real actor. Kind of like the Beric Dondarrion deal.I did see an interview with the actor who said he'd be happy returning although obviously if they want a better actor that'll be the deciding factor. Nonetheless Bowen Marsh is a character who'll be given further importance in later seasons so introducing him as a contender would work with the conservation of characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveyJoe Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 I'm guessing they'll pull a Beric Dondarrion when it comes to Bowen Marsh. His role in the first season was so small I don't think anybody will notice or care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tommen Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 No one has any idea that Bowen Marsh has even appeared on the show except for a handful of us nerds on the internet. Ask a large sampling of book readers and I would imagine 99% of them would not have even realized there was someone playing him in earlier seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Iron_Captain Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 Justin Kroll of Variety has confirmed that Neil Marshall will be back to direct EPISODE 9 of Season 4 and NOT the finale.http://variety.com/2013/tv/news/neil-marshall-to-helm-another-episode-nine-for-fourth-season-of-game-of-thrones-1200560481/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tommen Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 So the big action set-piece director is coming back for one episode only and it's E9. Is there any more doubt that the big climax of the Battle at the Wall will be in E9 now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onna Lewyys Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 Justin Kroll of Variety has confirmed that Neil Marshall will be back to direct EPISODE 9 of Season 4 and NOT the finale.http://variety.com/2...nes-1200560481/I'm still crossing my fingers that it won't be a huge battle, but just one really excellent sequence. Because, seriously, the huge battle stuff should actually come way before Stannis gets there. Sigh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Iron_Captain Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 I'm still crossing my fingers that it won't be a huge battle, but just one really excellent sequence. Because, seriously, the huge battle stuff should actually come way before Stannis gets there. Sigh.I understand why they would want to put the huge battle in episode 9 but what the hell is Stannis going to be doing before it? Also there is still a lot to cover with Stannis, Jon, Sam, etc after the battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oprahnoodlemantra Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 I understand why they would want to put the huge battle in episode 9 but what the hell is Stannis going to be doing before it? Also there is still a lot to cover with Stannis, Jon, Sam, etc after the battle.They'll have to change things around but it'll work. Maybe they'll make Jon's imprisonment a bigger plot point. They'll also probably have Sam and Aemon doing a lot of research about the Others. I dunno what Stannis will be doing though. They'll have to create a lot of new material for him or leave him out of a lot of episodes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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