otherbeef Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Compare that to the Starks who still have a claim to the North, a kingdom they've spent their whole life in, lords who want them back and are die hard Stark loyalists. They can vouch for the support of 3/7 of Westeros and they don't need to conquer these kingdoms.if the Targs lost their claim because they lost, then how do the Starks still have a claim to the North? they have been defeated and usurped just as much as the Targs. By that logic the Boltons rule the North now and the Starks have no legal claim to anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs_Darcy Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 if the Targs lost their claim because they lost, then how do the Starks still have a claim to the North? they have been defeated and usurped just as much as the Targs. By that logic the Boltons rule the North now and the Starks have no legal claim to anything.I think, the difference is that the Boltons legitimize their rule with "fake Arya". If they haid said something like "We killed all the Starks and now we rule and also have Winterfell", then they would rule by right of conquest like Robert Baratheon did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otherbeef Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 I think, the difference is that the Boltons legitimize their rule with "fake Arya". If they haid said something like "We killed all the Starks and now we rule and also have Winterfell", then they would rule by right of conquest like Robert Baratheon did.they were Wardens of the North before the fake arya marriage though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nictarion Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 they were Wardens of the North before the fake arya marriage thoughYep, they have the crown behind them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melisandre's Shadow Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 That was year ago! I highly doubt Dany could use that as a reason to vouch for their supportAs for fAegon it's not like the Martells would knowActually in tWOW preview chapter, Arianne thinks back to a letter Doran wrote her warning her to make sure he is a true Targaryen. I think the Martells are more skeptical than you give them credit for. Now Doran being skeptical doesn't mean Arianne will make a good decision, but it is something to be noted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady of Long Lake Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Yep, they have the crown behind them.and the Starks have the entire Northern population (minus 2 Boltons), the Wildlings, the Old Gods and the Children of the Forest behind them :)if the Targs lost their claim because they lost, then how do the Starks still have a claim to the North?8000 years of excellent ruling vs. 300 years of forced submission due to dragons. It isn't comparable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nictarion Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 8000 years of excellent ruling vs. 300 years of forced submission due to dragons. It isn't comparable. We dont know all the Starks were as good as Ned, odds are, many weren't. And the Targs only had dragons half that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxspecific Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 The Starks are loved for a reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMysteriousOne Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 8000 years of excellent ruling vs. 300 years of forced submission due to dragons. It isn't comparable.That doesn't make a difference at all, the Boltons are the rightful rulers of the North currently, and House Stark has been deposed, the same as House Targaryen. And who says that the Starks did not forcibly force their subjects to submit to them? The Kings of Winter were cold, fierce and strong people who ruled the North like winter. Anyway, I do want the Starks to retake Winterfell, and Stannis is going to aid them against the Boltons. The wolves will come again, and the North remembers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pikachu101 Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 The Starks never had the vale just because they said they wanna join robb doesn't make it true they didnt just like salladhor saan didn't get to fuck cercei.There's a big difference between Sallador Saan helping Stannis and the Vale helping Sansa :rolleyes: if the Targs lost their claim because they lost, then how do the Starks still have a claim to the North? they have been defeated and usurped just as much as the Targs. By that logic the Boltons rule the North now and the Starks have no legal claim to anything.The Starks still have claim because they still have support from the North. If Manderly gets Rickon or Sansa comes down with the Vale the Boltons are screwed. Now say Dany comes down to Westeros with an army, do you think people will be flocking to her because she's a Targaryen?The only reason why she'll win is because she's got dragons, not because people want her Yep, they have the crown behind them.A crown that is at it's weakest, LF and Varys made sure of that. If Sansa comes down with the Vale or Aegon marches through the Stormlands the crown is powerless to stop them. Which was LF and Varys' plan in the first place Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMysteriousOne Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Now say Dany comes down to Westeros with an army, do you think people will be flocking to her because she's a Targaryen?Yes, why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pikachu101 Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Yes, why not?Sorry I seem to have missed all the lords and ladies vying for the Targaryens to come back :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMysteriousOne Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Sorry I seem to have missed all the lords and ladies vying for the Targaryens to come back :rolleyes:Half the Houses that fought for them during the rebellion... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nictarion Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Half the Houses that fought for them during the rebellion...Exactly. And until now, there have been no Targ options in Westeros (except a secret one at the wall). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melisandre's Shadow Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Half the Houses that fought for them during the rebellion... I don't hink it matters about Targ loyalties as much as it matters whether a house will benefit/become more powerful by supporting a Targ. For example the Tyrells have a huge ball grip on the power of the Iron Throne so teaming with Aegon would do nothing for them right now since they have all the power they can get. However if Dany comes knocking then maybe QoT will realize that they will lose all their power if they try to fight dragons, and then they would become "Targ loyalists" once again. "Stark loyalists" are way more loyal to their liege lords, but also will assumingly benefit GREATLY if they played a powerful part in restoring Stark power, whereas right now with Bolton power they are ignored/have no power. Its all bout who benefits from a persons claim, not the name of that person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pikachu101 Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Half the Houses that fought for them during the rebellion...The only great house who actually fought for the Targaryens were the Tyrells, and they're not die hard Targaryen loyalists. If Dany comes they're not going to be like "finally! Our true queen has returned!" :bowdown: They're going to ally with Aegon because they can marry Margaery off to him. And even if they fight for Dany it would only be because she has dragons. The Targaryens don't have die hard loyalists, the Starks do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelittledragonthatcould Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 I think, the difference is that the Boltons legitimize their rule with "fake Arya". If they haid said something like "We killed all the Starks and now we rule and also have Winterfell", then they would rule by right of conquest like Robert Baratheon did.er, Robert claims the throne through his Targ ancestry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otherbeef Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 The only great house who actually fought for the Targaryens were the Tyrells, and they're not die hard Targaryen loyalists.If Dany comes they're not going to be like "finally! Our true queen has returned!" :bowdown:They're going to ally with Aegon because they can marry Margaery off to him. And even if they fight for Dany it would only be because she has dragons.The Targaryens don't have die hard loyalists, the Starks doDorne also fought for the Targs. but either way, having loyalists and having a legal claim have nothing to do with each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pikachu101 Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Dorne also fought for the Targs. but either way, having loyalists and having a legal claim have nothing to do with each other.The Targaryens don't have a legal claim, they lost it the minute Robert but his butt on the IT. If she wants the throne she's going to have to get it back through conquest, she can't walk in demanding her rights and expecting everyone to give it And loyalists will always be important; it's the reason why the LF's certain Sansa will get the North, it's why Varys is knows Jon would protect Aegon and it's why the smallfolk are demanding the Septon to release Margaery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otherbeef Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 The Targaryens don't have a legal claim, they lost it the minute Robert but his butt on the IT. If she wants the throne she's going to have to get it back through conquest, she can't walk in demanding her rights and expecting everyone to give itAnd loyalists will always be important; it's the reason why the LF's certain Sansa will get the North, it's why Varys is knows Jon would protect Aegon and it's why the smallfolk are demanding the Septon to release Margaery.everyone agrees Dany will have to win the throne back. also Dany is sure to get some support when she comes to Westeros. Aegon presents himself as a Targ and is working on gaining one great house in the Martells and they believe they have other friends in the realm.But the Starks will have to do the same thing. they both have legally been disposed of. by loyalists or submission, if you regain what is yours (the throne/the north) it doesn't matter how you take it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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