If Robb hadn't married Jeyne

[Harpo of House Trashcan]

What would have happened if he hadn't married Jeyne.Would this prevent the Red Wedding and the Karstark betrayal?

[drayrock]

the young wolf would be alive and there wouldn't be a whole in my soul.

[Mad Monkey]

Robb would be teaching Sansa how to play hackysack with Joffrey's skull, while his Frey bride braids Arya's hair (this might get a little violent)>

Winterfell's new hostages, Tommen and Myrcella Baratheon, charm the Stark household with their beauty and sweetness. Theon Greyjoy shows them the ropes, though Maester Luwin has to intervene when he tries to take them out to pick up chicks.

Cersei will rule over the silent sisters with an iron fist while Bran cheerfully dangles Jaime Lannister off of a roof with a bungee cord tied to his waist.

Back on the Wall, Ser Alliser Thorne will put Tywin Lannister in his paces ("Good gods, my Lord Hand, have you ever even held a sword before???") while Jon Snow simply laughs and laughs.

Stannis and Tyrion will become drinking buddies after many sleepless small council meetings in King's Landing, and at some point during their reign they will vanish from court and reappear somewhere in the Free Cities, covered in tattoos and piercings and singing songs so bawdy that Daario Naharis will report them to the city watch.

Catelyn Stark will pass out from relief and exhaustion and not wake up for several weeks.

Everyone will find Roose Bolton somewhat uncomfortable but they'll be too embarrassed to say anything about it because he seems like a decent enough guy, although he's kind of a hippie health nut.

Three Skagosi envoys will turn up in White Harbor to sell their recipe book. Lord Wyman will throw them out after they recommend to him a pie recipe made of human flesh, because that's disgusting.

[MidnightAurora]

The Freys would have found another way to feel slighted by Robb. Bolton was already scheming against Robb long before the RW. The Lannisters/Boltons needed a fall guy (Freys) to commit the act that they helped orchestrate, but can later shift blame fully on the Freys. The Karstarks betrayed Robb when his mother released their most valuable prisoner. I also think if Edmure did not blindly order the troops at the Twins to leave and join Bolton there would have been troops on the ready to alert to anything that would seem like the Freys were not keeping faith. The Freys and the rest went overboard and the North never forgets so everyone who betrayed Robb and the north look out because the Lannisters and their money can not protect you forever. If the Freys kept faith with Robb the Boltons/Lannisters would have been lost. The Twins should have found a way to make peace with Robb and realize with him they would have gained more and not be thrown under the bus.

[PrinceHenryris]

Not much different, unless Robb headed North after he broke the siege of Riverrun, and married a Frey on the way home.

[Lala]

Robb would be teaching Sansa how to play hackysack with Joffrey's skull, while his Frey bride braids Arya's hair (this might get a little violent)>

Winterfell's new hostages, Tommen and Myrcella Baratheon, charm the Stark household with their beauty and sweetness. Theon Greyjoy shows them the ropes, though Maester Luwin has to intervene when he tries to take them out to pick up chicks.

Cersei will rule over the silent sisters with an iron fist while Bran cheerfully dangles Jaime Lannister off of a roof with a bungee cord tied to his waist.

Back on the Wall, Ser Alliser Thorne will put Tywin Lannister in his paces ("Good gods, my Lord Hand, have you ever even held a sword before???") while Jon Snow simply laughs and laughs.

Stannis and Tyrion will become drinking buddies after many sleepless small council meetings in King's Landing, and at some point during their reign they will vanish from court and reappear somewhere in the Free Cities, covered in tattoos and piercings and singing songs so bawdy that Daario Naharis will report them to the city watch.

Catelyn Stark will pass out from relief and exhaustion and not wake up for several weeks.

Everyone will find Roose Bolton somewhat uncomfortable but they'll be too embarrassed to say anything about it because he seems like a decent enough guy, although he's kind of a hippie health nut.

Three Skagosi envoys will turn up in White Harbor to sell their recipe book. Lord Wyman will throw them out after they recommend to him a pie recipe made of human flesh, because that's disgusting.

:agree:

The part about Cersei ruling over the Silent Sisters made me LOL

[Barty]

Robb would have won - not through winning many more battles but because Tywin and Joffrey would die soon after, Tthe ironborn would attack the reach, Cersei would get arrested , Aegon would invade the stormlands and then Kevan would be killed. Basically no one would attack Robb and his kingdom till next spring - and till that time Robb would have built up very strong defensive plans in the riverlands.

[MidnightAurora]

Robb could have done that after the battle at Whispering Wood. He could have rebuilt the defenses, rested the wounded, strengthen the army, cut off Tywin, store the crops and other things instead of giving people leave to protect their own lands etc..

[Barty]

Robb could have done that after the battle at Whispering Wood. He could have rebuilt the defenses, rested the wounded, strengthen the army, cut off Tywin, store the crops and other things instead of giving people leave to protect their own lands etc..

How does he do that when there is a large enemy army inside his kingdom - burning and pillaging everything in sight and another enemy army about to march down from the other side. The best defense is to attack - he took the fight to the west, Tywin was forced to leave the riverlands, and the fighting would have shifted from the riverlands to the westerlands, giving the riverlords much needed rest and time to train more men. Luck saved Tywin.

[Erkan12]

Tywin plan it when Robb broke his marriage contract. Tywin saw a opportunity and he used it. So Frey need a guarantee for RW, they are not brave like that. So without Jeyne, Frey would stay with Robb. Robb still couldn't defeat Lannisters-Tyrells alliance but he would return north and throw ironborns, i don't think summer boys would dare to attack north. They would definetly take river lands but north is more tough thing. So Robb would still alive. But Tommen and Lannisters too.

For Boltons, i can't imagine what they would do. Maybe Roose would try alliance with Karstark and rebellion in north.

[MidnightAurora]

How does he do that when there is a large enemy army inside his kingdom - burning and pillaging everything in sight and another enemy army about to march down from the other side. The best defense is to attack - he took the fight to the west, Tywin was forced to leave the riverlands, and the fighting would have shifted from the riverlands to the westerlands, giving the riverlords much needed rest and time to train more men. Luck saved Tywin.

After Whisper Wood the only army threatening Robb is Tywin and he retreated back to Harrenhal because he knew Robb had him by the balls. Luck did not save Tywin it was Edmure's mistake by going into battle against him long enough for the riders from bitterbridge to reach him. I thought Robb's plan to go west and attack the 2nd army being raised in Lannisport was wise and knowing Tywin does not take slight especially against his home/family lightly and he would be brass and attack etc.. I thought this was a brilliant plan by Robb and would have worked if Edmure did not disobey a command from Robb and started to "command" himself. After Whispering Wood, Renly was moving slowly from high Garden, Stannis still at Dragonstone so those were not a bother for Robb and w/o Tywin KL was greatly weakened. Right after Whispering Wood, Robb did not know what to do and ask/listened to his Lords who all had different ideas and some were good and if they were combined then things could have gone smoother. Right After Whispering Wood, Robb listened and gave River Lords leave to defend their lands and it was a mistake because he lost more men and land with each band trying to defend its own. He burned the crops to starve out the people in Harrenhal and so they could not live off their land. This was fine, but they left themselves without much as well and should have stored food like Master Luwin/Rodrik suggested to the people in Winterfell/The North. That way they would have food for the people/themselves and able to re-grow their crops/feed cattle etc. After Whispering Wood they still held the twins and had the second half of his army in the north, defenses at the harbors etc.. After Tywin's battle with Roose he realized the ruse and rushed back to try and rescue Jaime and his army to no avail which he lost horses, men, supplies and was greatly weakened thus retreating to Harrenhal. Jeyne may have been the action to break the camels back, but there were errors and missteps prior to him marrying her. Mostly because he may have been crowned KitN, but his other lords seemed to see it fit to command their own ideas (ex: Edmure's commanding the troops to leave the Twins, Roose to move south etc.., His mother thinking fir to release the Kingslayer to try and save her daughters and expecting others to go along with the idea of exchange of prisoners) and scheming against Robb. Also, Robb had counsel but no one gave him consistent counsel/guidance and that really hurt Robb along with losing men/land etc.. Even if Robb did not marry Jeyne, I am pretty sure they would have continued to find a way to kill him like Tywin tried to lure Ned into battle to kill him. It was noted the Boltons were scheming with the Lannisters long before Robb married Jeyne. If he did marry a Frey or if his mother left to help decide a bride, he could had hold the Twins based on claim. So many ifs, woulda shoulda etc..

[MidnightAurora]

Tywin plan it when Robb broke his marriage contract. Tywin saw a opportunity and he used it. So Frey need a guarantee for RW, they are not brave like that. So without Jeyne, Frey would stay with Robb. Robb still couldn't defeat Lannisters-Tyrells alliance but he would return north and throw ironborns, i don't think summer boys would dare to attack north. They would definetly take river lands but north is more tough thing. So Robb would still alive. But Tommen and Lannisters too.

For Boltons, i can't imagine what they would do. Maybe Roose would try alliance with Karstark and rebellion in north.

Agreed and I also think the Boltons made sure or at least Ramsay made sure that news of Bran and Rickon were still alive did not reach certain people so the RW would continue. Hence, Tywin thinking he had the only heir left to WF in his grasps and he needed to solidify his family and thus stake a Lannister claim in the North by forcing Sansa to marry into his family and create an heir.

[Pero the first of His name]

Lannister-Frey-Bolton pen-friendship began because of Blackwater outcome and Jeyne incident alike.

But if only Blackwater happened it would be harder to get Freys involved, though still a likelyhood.

The biggest factor of them all is Renly`s death.

[Grand Moff Mithrandir]

He would still be alive, albeit holed up at Riverrun.

[Bronn Blackwater]

He would probably still be alive and well. But the song of Ice and Fire story might not be. These are the type of events that make this story so great.

[sansa's sworn sword]

He would probably still be alive and well. But the song of Ice and Fire story might not be. These are the type of events that make this story so great.

:agree:

[valtolin]

Robb would be teaching Sansa how to play hackysack with Joffrey's skull, while his Frey bride braids Arya's hair (this might get a little violent)>

Winterfell's new hostages, Tommen and Myrcella Baratheon, charm the Stark household with their beauty and sweetness. Theon Greyjoy shows them the ropes, though Maester Luwin has to intervene when he tries to take them out to pick up chicks.

Cersei will rule over the silent sisters with an iron fist while Bran cheerfully dangles Jaime Lannister off of a roof with a bungee cord tied to his waist.

Back on the Wall, Ser Alliser Thorne will put Tywin Lannister in his paces ("Good gods, my Lord Hand, have you ever even held a sword before???") while Jon Snow simply laughs and laughs.

Stannis and Tyrion will become drinking buddies after many sleepless small council meetings in King's Landing, and at some point during their reign they will vanish from court and reappear somewhere in the Free Cities, covered in tattoos and piercings and singing songs so bawdy that Daario Naharis will report them to the city watch.

Catelyn Stark will pass out from relief and exhaustion and not wake up for several weeks.

Everyone will find Roose Bolton somewhat uncomfortable but they'll be too embarrassed to say anything about it because he seems like a decent enough guy, although he's kind of a hippie health nut.

Three Skagosi envoys will turn up in White Harbor to sell their recipe book. Lord Wyman will throw them out after they recommend to him a pie recipe made of human flesh, because that's disgusting.

This.

[Harpo of House Trashcan]

He would probably still be alive and well. But the song of Ice and Fire story might not be. These are the type of events that make this story so great.

That.... that was beautiful :agree:

[Noneofyourbusiness]

The Freys would have found another way to feel slighted by Robb. Bolton was already scheming against Robb long before the RW. The Lannisters/Boltons needed a fall guy (Freys) to commit the act that they helped orchestrate, but can later shift blame fully on the Freys.

According to GRR Martin, Roose Bolton wasn't committed to choosing either Robb or Tywin's side until the last moment. The Freys only felt slighted because they actually were slighted. So without Robb breaking the marriage pact, the Freys have no reason to turn against him and the Boltons are less likely to do so either, because his blood wouldn't be in the water in the same way.

[Danyl Stark]

I don't think that Bolton was always planning on betraying Robb, he doesn't seem like the type to bear the 3000 year grudge between Stark & Bolton, he betrayed Robb once he knew his cause was doomed, the Freys I believe were looking for a way out after Blackwater etc. and Robb's "betrayal" of them by marrying Jeyne was the perfect opportunity to feel slighted. So if Robb hadn't married Jeyne, I think Frey would still have betrayed Robb, but I can't see the Red Wedding going down.