Does anyone find Magaery's accusations pointless?

[Ser_Cortnay_Penrose]

Which Lannister strength? There is barely anything left of it on the entire continent, and none in KL. Ser Robert Strong is likely to be the single "guy" who could be called Lannister strength inside 200 miles.

Don't the Lannisters have Riverrun surrounded? Aren't they allied with the Freys (most of whom are North yes I know). Don't they still command the city watch? What about the Lannister troops that broke Stannis's seige with the Tyrells? Did they march off somewhere? What about the men Gregor commanded at Harrenhal? Have the Lannisters suffered significant casualties to their armies since the Crag, the Stone Mill? What engagement has drained there strength since the Young Wolf's victories?

Now clearly the family as a political force is on the break of destruction. But as for the diminishment of their armed forces, not sure what you're referring to.

[chrisdaw]

If Marge loses her trial the Tyrell host storms KL and takes her by force.

[bloodsteel bitterraven]

Why the hell would Margaery lose her head? There is no evidence against her. And the septon is probably afraid of the Tyrell army.

[chrisdaw]

The Septon is not going to manipulate the outcome of the trial, that's his whole character, he does as he believes the gods require him and will bend for no man or army. Marge's sexual history is unknown to us.

[silentwanderer]

I hope Margaery survives, but considering how corrupt King's Landing is, nothing would surprise me.

Good point. After all, Tyrion was innocent for all the good that's done him.

There's just no guarantee for Margaery either.

[chrisdaw]

Something to consider, if Cersei is trialled first and found innocent, then the court may consider every witness brought forth in Marge's trial who claims "Cersei ordered me to do this" or "Cersei told me to say that" as false. As if Cersei is proven true in the eyes of the gods and court all those who testify otherwise must be lying.

[Harle The Handsome]

The High Septon might pull a Joffrey and beheads Margaery on the steps of Baelor after assuring Mace everything would be allright.

I seriously doubt the High Septon would turn the Sept of Baelor into an abattoir.

[Pod The Impaler]

I'd wager that the accusations were always a pointless scheme for Cersei to try - but try she did, motivated by her own insecurity.

The thing is, you get the feeling Margaery is actually very aware of the potential danger to her person, so she takes precautions - physical precautions as well as those regarding appearances.

[Petyr Patter]

At this point, I believe Margaery's trial is just set up to Cersei's trial. It might have been better to squeeze one or both into "Dance," but a cut off has to occur eventually.

Everything we know, and we know a lot, points toward an acquital for Margaery. The reader has almost no evidence that she has committed treason, and almost every witness against Margaery has either recanted or just outright admitted Cersei put them up to it. The only exception is the Blue Bard, who was tortured to point of mind break by Qyburn and will be seen as insane if he testifies. The High Septon KNOWS Cersei tried to use him to do her dirty work. At this point, I think he just wants to go through the motions of a trial by faith to help increase the prestige of the faith.

The only way Margaery is found guilty at this point, is if characters act in a manner completely outside of their established behavior, or someone comes forward with videotape evidence that would convince most of the Tyrell bannerman she is guilty, and then they won't follow him in attacking the Faith to get his daughter out of a punishment of her own making.

So, really, at this point, its all about Cersei's trial, and her arc. I think she will win her combat by trial, as well, which makes her fate less certain as the other players try to decide what to do with a disgraced Queen as Cersei tries to reassert some authority, all the while paving the way for Aegon to consolidate and grow in strength.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Don't the Lannisters have Riverrun surrounded? Aren't they allied with the Freys (most of whom are North yes I know). Don't they still command the city watch? What about the Lannister troops that broke Stannis's seige with the Tyrells? Did they march off somewhere? What about the men Gregor commanded at Harrenhal? Have the Lannisters suffered significant casualties to their armies since the Crag, the Stone Mill? What engagement has drained there strength since the Young Wolf's victories?

Now clearly the family as a political force is on the break of destruction. But as for the diminishment of their armed forces, not sure what you're referring to.

Most of the remaining Lannister troops were disbanded mid-Feast by Cersei, leaving only ~3,000 under arms, distributed between Dragonstone, the Riverlands, Casterly Rock and Kings Landing. And the Lannisters won't be able to recall them before spring at the earliest.

Even if they would be in a single place instead of a thousand miles from each other, 3,000 is a joke.

The Freys have a tad more, between the Riverlands and the North, but they desperately need them themselves and won't send them to KL, if they even could get there in time.

The Goldcloaks are neither a regular army - nor particularly loyal to the Lannisters. They're far more likely to join the Tyrells or even the High Septon. Or just desert.

[zorkman]

It would be nice to read a Margaery POV to see what she is actually thinking & what she is about.

[juanml82]

The danger for Margery, IMHO, is if Varys can infiltrate the trial and put his own judges, who would declare her guilty. Mace Tyrell will then attack the Faith so Aegon can appear as the defender of the Faith against the godslayer, or whatever, Tyrells.

[Lord Varys]

It's unlikely that the High Septon will kill Margaery. Even if Mace and Margaery are going along with the Faith trial - they don't need to, now that Kevan is dead - I very much doubt that they will give the Faith the chance to execute Margaery if they dare to convict her. Mace has two armies at the city right now, and I don't see him sending all his troops out to retake Storm's End before the Margaery situation is resolved to his satisfaction. In fact, Varys may intend to drag the trial thing on to enable the Golden Company to strengthen their position in the Stormlands, forcing Mace to keep too much of his forces in KL when he finally sends Randyll Tarly out to deal with Connington.

Mace and Margaery will take plenty of their men with them should they go to the Great Sept for the trial, and I'm quite sure they won't care all that much about the Warrior's Sons and Poor Fellows.

If there is a trial, there is a risk that Varys will present evidence detailing Margaery's involvement in Joffrey's murder. As of yet, we don't know what Varys knows about this thing, but I'd be very surprised if he remained ignorant about it. Most likely he has either real evidence about it - especially if Taena and her husband are secret Aegon loyalists - or he will deliver some fabricated evidence that is going to get Margaery into real trouble. The revelation about the truth of Joffrey's murder will most certainly cause open war between the Lannisters and Tyrells, and may in fact create interesting new alliances (the Tyrells being forced to join Aegon? Cersei allying with and marrying Euron Greyjoy?). Something similar will happen when Jaime openly declares that he is the father of Cersei's children. After that, Tommen and Myrcella will lose their claims to the Iron Throne and most certainly lose all the support they still have.

If Cersei gets her trial by combat, Ser Robert will ensure her freedom. But that's not going to put her back into power. And if the Tyrells are smart, they arrest her at once and accuse her of arranging Ser Kevan's assassination. Ser Robert's participation in Cersei's trial will also most likely make it evident that he is in fact Gregor Clegane, which most surely is going to cause Doran and Arianne to start their war against the Lannisters (if they have not declared for Aegon before that thing happened, they will afterwards).

[Ingelheim]

It's so easy to see accusations are made up. And worse, whole plot is boring. You could easily predict what will happen on the trial. So? I am missing something or this whole mess s pointless?

The plot is made to show us Cersei's fall. She thought she was doing the things right (it's actually funny to read her thoughts about herself in AFFC), but she wasn't, and now she will pay for her mistakes. Also, it shows us GregorDead, Qyburn's skill to revive people, that Jaime has finally abandoned her and probably a future Tyrell POV

[fantasmas]

I don't imagine these trials will go smoothly. High Septon no.3 might not be political in the ways previous septons were, but he has a clear objective of spreading the Faith, building up their fighting strength, and exerting power beyond the Iron Throne. Cersei's walk of shame was less about her crimes than the Faith's attempt to humiliate her. It was a display of power against the Iron Throne since publicly humiliating a queen is surely not done without some political objective in mind.

I'm not sure what Margaery's fate would be. The evidence against her appears flimsy, but the deaths of Pycelle and Kevan will likely add more conflict to these trials. Swift reversals of fortune have occurred in this series.

I suppose the outcome would hinge on what the High Septon finds more beneficial to the Faith's cause.

[Lord Varys]

By humiliating Cersei the Faith actually showed that it has teeth. But this thing was arranged by Kevan and the High Septon, not pulled off by the High Septon against the Iron Throne. The High Septon is smart enough to be aware of the fact that he cannot pursue his agenda of restoring the ancient powers and privileges of the Faith he takes on the Lannisters and Tyrells at the same time. At least not as long as Aegon has not yet won a decisive victory over a Tyrell army. The Tyrells have two armies in King's Landing, and trying to execute/humiliate/stain the reputation of Mace Tyrell's precious daughter may very well cause the Tyrells to attack the Great Sept. It would tarnish King Tommen's public reputation even more, but I simply cannot see Mace Tyrell standing idly by while he loses everything he has tried gain.

Ser Kevan had neither the men nor was he willing to demand that the Faith release Cersei. Randyll Tarly was willing and had the men to threaten the Faith, so the High Septon let Margaery and her cousins go.

If Margaery is going to be convicted in her trial then because something unexpected is happening. For example, somebody accuses her of being involved in the assassination of Joffrey and backs this up with proof. Then the judges will be forced to deal with this even if they are actually not intending to convict Margaery.

Even Tyene Sand - should she become a judge in the trial - would not be able to convict Margaery on the testimonies and evidence the Faith has gathered. The very fact that all her accusers but the Blue Bard have withdrawn their accusations strongly suggest that they were all coerced to accuse Margaery. And the Blue Bard apparently has been tortured until he broke. I don't see the judges not seeing all of that. Especially if the Tyrell military power backs up those facts.

And I don't believe the High Septon intends to make Mace Tyrell his mortal enemy. At least not yet.

[silentwanderer]

Something to consider, if Cersei is trialled first and found innocent, then the court may consider every witness brought forth in Marge's trial who claims "Cersei ordered me to do this" or "Cersei told me to say that" as false. As if Cersei is proven true in the eyes of the gods and court all those who testify otherwise must be lying.

Also a good point: should Robert Strong win the trial by combat,it lends credibility to every proof against Margaery no matter how false.

And I don't believe the High Septon intends to make Mace Tyrell his mortal enemy. At least not yet.

Then again, this is not the same High Septon that could be bought, which is the reason Cersei was imprisoned in the first place.

[ejhawman]

I would hardly call them pointless. They just weren't as effective as Cersei hoped: they only serve as a spoiler move, rather than a serious chance to remove her from play. The fact that it will, in all likelihood, succeed in getting her hung or packed off to a religious order will be more accidental than anything else. Cersei's actions depend on others to act in ways she can't count on, but sometimes things just break her way. Maybe once or twice more in the series...

[Sweetgirl205]

I don't trust Margeory. I really do think Cersie will be found innocent, and Margeory found guilty. If Cersie is found guilty, Margeory is no longer queen. It would be in the Tyrell's best interest to save Cersie.

On a side note, after the trials, Cersie thinks she's broken the curse. Sansa or Dany shows up and The Hound or Jamie kills Cersie's children. Thus, the curse is right.

[Lord Damian]

As far as Margeary is concerned, she is her grandmother's grandaughter. Lady Oleana is one cunning bitch. Margeary seems like the kind of girl that wants to have her cake and eat it too. It could be 6 years or so before tommen is able to do anything. She is what 16-17 years old. Married twice and we know was naked in bed with Renly.I doubt she is a virgin whether Renly and her did anything or nor but that is meaningless. Cersei threatening or messing with her trial, now that Kevan is gone is "real" .Margeary may be found guilty even though she is most likely innocent.