the gold of casterly rock

[Señor de la Tormenta]

Since the first book, its warned m that most of lannisters power comes from their gold. Thats the quality that makes them more powerful than the other houses....

But after all this war, do we really see their gold playing a major roll? They get their armys from their lands people...not much difference as tyrells, storms land or starks...theres no special money trick giving them additional strengh.

As I recall they do not want to use their money to pay the crown expenses (they made loans, but not during the war I think)

Not many bannermans had switched their loyalty for gold. It was never said that it was the way they got the tyrells (even they fight about paying the wedding). Its never implied bolton or freys got money for their acts. They were paid with lands, castles and titles.

The only two acts involving casterlys rock gold I remember is the small vargo company hired by tywin. And the money Tyron used with the clans. They are not showing really money power as for example yunkai...

So finally the question: I m missing facts? Are they paying klanding spends with their money? They are not as rich as said? Or now we are going to see their money play hiring companys and buying lords in their final stand?

Sorry for my bad spelling. Im still lerning english, and even worst, writting in a phone!

[Wayward Wolf]

Tywin once said that in the free cities they fought with coins and not with swords, and that everything had it's use, impling that war should not be fought with coins, as the Yunkay are doing

[Señor de la Tormenta]

Tywin once said that in the free cities they fought with coins and not with swords, and that everything had it's use, impling that war should not be fought with coins, as the Yunkay are doing

but he did hire a company... One of the cheapest I guess

[Mad Monkey]

I think we'll be seeing the greater importance of Lannister's wealth in the next few books. Now that the fighting has slowed down, the authorities are turning their attention to the financial ruin of the Crown. For example, there's a scene where Kevan talks about paying off Crown debts with the Lannister's own money, and of course creditors from Braavos come to KL and to the Wall to discuss various debts that have been neglected. Especially now that winter has come along, the wealthier nations are going to have an easier time importing food from Essos; the war of 5 kings had destroyed a lot of good farmland and forced the country to go through its reserves at a rapid pace.

[chrisdaw]

If the Lannister coffers have run dry is a good question, mines do exhaust. There's a little bit of possible foreshadowing but I'm not aware of any real evidence of them actually not having cash in the bank.

[Dr. Pepper]

The gold plays a major part in the lead up to the war. The throne is indebted to the Lannisters due to loans given to the throne. It's not as easy for Robert to deny Jaime Warden of the East or grant approval to Sweetrobin being fostered at Casterly Rock when the Lannisters could cripple the economy by calling in the loans. Basically, they could have done what the Iron Bank eventually does.

Tywn starts the war with gold, with his mercenary company. Tyrion helped buy his freedom in the Vale with gold (to Mord to gain him audience and to the mountain clans to gain him safe passage and of course to Bronn). In King's Landing, that gold continues to work (though I'm not actually sure if Tyrion was paying or if it came from the throne which was getting more loans).

Bannermen certainly switched their loyalty for promise of golden items like castles or titles or marriages. These types of offerings may not be gold in the form of golden dragons, but they are even better as they will provide profit for generations to come. Actual gold isn't always the most desireable payment, especially for a lord who is already land wealthy. Some rewards are greater, like a marriage to the throne and future influence in administration. Or, for Varys, learning secrets.

[wighty]

I think the Lannister wealth is like Fort Knox, its the idea that gold is there whether it is there or not is meaning less.

[chrisdaw]

I think the Lannister wealth is like Fort Knox, its the idea that gold is there whether it is there or not is meaning less.

At this point sure, but Tyrion has already spent it should he come into Lordship, should it not be there it will throw a spanner in the works, after all Lannisters always pay their debts.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

The gold plays a major part in the lead up to the war. The throne is indebted to the Lannisters due to loans given to the throne. It's not as easy for Robert to deny Jaime Warden of the East or grant approval to Sweetrobin being fostered at Casterly Rock when the Lannisters could cripple the economy by calling in the loans. Basically, they could have done what the Iron Bank eventually does.

Tywn starts the war with gold, with his mercenary company. Tyrion helped buy his freedom in the Vale with gold (to Mord to gain him audience and to the mountain clans to gain him safe passage and of course to Bronn). In King's Landing, that gold continues to work (though I'm not actually sure if Tyrion was paying or if it came from the throne which was getting more loans).

Bannermen certainly switched their loyalty for promise of golden items like castles or titles or marriages. These types of offerings may not be gold in the form of golden dragons, but they are even better as they will provide profit for generations to come. Actual gold isn't always the most desireable payment, especially for a lord who is already land wealthy. Some rewards are greater, like a marriage to the throne and future influence in administration. Or, for Varys, learning secrets.

This.

Furthermore, the Lannister gold pays for their better than average troop quality, the high number of actual Lannister troops instead of relying on bannermen and the compared to their lands high total of soldiers.

[Muggle]

meh i always assumed if tyrion got his lordship he would simply not pay the 2nd sons

[Bright Blue Eyes]

meh i always assumed if tyrion got his lordship he would simply not pay the 2nd sons

Why not? The amount of money he promised them is actually very, very handable for him. Tywin lent the Crown ten times the amount.

[Starfell]

If the Lannister coffers have run dry is a good question, mines do exhaust. There's a little bit of possible foreshadowing but I'm not aware of any real evidence of them actually not having cash in the bank.

They haven't, this came up in a thread last week or the one before; Kevan's internal monologue (which is the most recent thing in ASoIaF barring TWoW samples) states that he could use Lannister gold to pay off the Iron Bank, so they're definitely not short of capital. Plus, when we hear about the rape of the Westerlands by Robb's forces, we hear about a number of gold mines being captured at Castamere and the Pendric Hills. It's certainly not the Rock, but those mines are producing gold that filters up to the Lannisters via taxation, and until ADwD Castamere was probably ruled over by a castellan who answered directly to the Rock and so its incomes may well have gone directly into Lannister coffers

[Señor de la Tormenta]

This.

Furthermore, the Lannister gold pays for their better than average troop quality, the high number of actual Lannister troops instead of relying on bannermen and the compared to their lands high total of soldiers.

As It was said in an other post, after blackwater battle they had to send their men home....

[Muggle]

Why not? The amount of money he promised them is actually very, very handable for him. Tywin lent the Crown ten times the amount.

I just think Tyrion is going down a path that is more dark grey of the greys, I cant pretend to know his end game but i think he is becoming the thing people always accuse him as a vile evil little monkey

[Mad Monkey]

meh i always assumed if tyrion got his lordship he would simply not pay the 2nd sons

Me too. After all, the unofficial motto is, "A Lannister never pays his debts."

Besides, in this society, if you break your word like that you'll never be trusted ever again. There may be a time when Lord Tyrion requires the assistance of another free company again at some point in the future; if he doesn't make good on his promise, he will never be able to have anything on credit ever again.

[Señor de la Tormenta]

If they really have the gold they said its time to use it. They could have hired companys in the free citys....they could have bought food so they didnt have to send their men home to grow crops...they got to do something!!! Tyrells may have 10 time more men in arms right know... Dorne 50.000, even connigton has a biger army.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

As It was said in an other post, after blackwater battle they had to send their men home....

Yes. That post was probably by me. But it wasn't a lack of money that made them sent those guys home. It was not having a direct use for them, low morale and exhaustion.

I just think Tyrion is going down a path that is more dark grey of the greys, I cant pretend to know his end game but i think he is becoming the thing people always accuse him as a vile evil little monkey

I doubt Tyrion would have objections based on morality to not paying them. It would just be dumb on a politcal level. It shows everybody not to trust him.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

If they really have the gold they said its time to use it. They could have hired companys in the free citys....they could have bought food so they didnt have to send their men home to grow crops...they got to do something!!! Tyrells may have 10 time more men in arms right know... Dorne 50.000, even connigton has a biger army.

It's a sellers market. All the gold in Casterly Rock is useless if nobody wants to sell you something.

Furthermore, as far as the Lannisters know, they don't need anything at the moment or during the last six months.

[Dr. Pepper]

If they really have the gold they said its time to use it. They could have hired companys in the free citys....they could have bought food so they didnt have to send their men home to grow crops...they got to do something!!! Tyrells may have 10 time more men in arms right know... Dorne 50.000, even connigton has a biger army.

Dornish numbers are vastly overestimated. I believe Doran discusses this and lists their force at less than half that number. Connington brought 10,000.

The Tyrells and Lannisters don't lack in number. The problem is their forces are now split (which is actually sort of good for the Lannisters). And honestly, growing crops to stock up for winter makes a lot mor sense then just allowing the entire harvests to rot and buying food.

[Petyr Patter]

At this point sure, but Tyrion has already spent it should he come into Lordship, should it not be there it will throw a spanner in the works, after all Lannisters always pay their debts.

Tyrion owes, if I read right and did the math right, the Second sons 150,000 gold. Plus, land and a lorship to Brown Ben Plum himself. Actually, two-thirds of that money goes to Brown Ben.

Anyways, House Lannister loaned the Iron Throne roughly 3,000,000 gold during Robert's reign. So, 150,000 might be a lot of money, there is no reason to think it would bankrupt Casterly Rock.

Still, in Medieval Europe and Westeros alike, real wealth was land. That is why its called "realestate." The Westerlands might not be the Reach, but they still have fertile lands to field an army. The money just makes it easier to buy things they don't have handy, such as swords and pikes. So, think of the gold of Casterly rock as an economic and military lubricant.