GRRM inspiration for Valyrian culture and targaryens?

[naik2902]

if we compare the map of world of ice and fire the valyria map resembles to that of south asia which includes indian peninsular subcontinent. valyrian location is roughly situated to the middle and southern part of essos same like india location in asia.

in this story 4000 yrs ago valyrian with rise power of dragons they start invading and start kicking the asses of everyone in essos and later crosses the narrow sea to conquer seven kingdoms and rule over westeros.

same like in todays world indians are spreading everywhere and migrating western countries like US for better life. indian are more succesful , more no of indian graduates are passing out in US college and universities more than the general population of US. Average earning of Indian population experties in US is more than average earning of general population of US in most of the field. migrated indians are doin slightly more better in every field when away from their real home.

Iam not saying that indians are better race or thier culture is better. this has nothing to do with south asian being more intelligent or something. if we go to india itself the statistics are more disastrous and more indians are below poverty line in india.

i am just saying the rise of Valrian empire and conquest of westeros is the inspiration taken by GRRM from the indians, the way the indian have shown thier talent and competance in every field with rest of the world.

[Breastplate Stretcha]

I also hear Valyrians go nuts over Cricket, too. You might be on to something!

[Ser Uncle P]

Historically, ancient Egypt is more likely, with monarchs marrying their sisters.

[joluoto]

Valyria, like all other places are a mix of many things.

[naik2902]

GRRM took tigers from southasia and created house targaryen. he took dragons from china and gifted it to valyrian as thier strongest weapon. just kiddin lol. :ack: no offence.

[Frozentree]

Like every other location/state in the series, it is not based on a single RL location/state, but is a mixture of multiple as well as as some completely made up attributes. Valyria itself is based on Roman empire republic, but also has something from Egypt and a little touch of Mongolian Empire.

[Morienthar]

if we compare the map of world of ice and fire the valyria map resembles to that of south asia which includes indian peninsular subcontinent. valyrian location is roughly situated to the middle and southern part of essos same like india location in asia.

in this story 4000 yrs ago valyrian with rise power of dragons they start invading and start kicking the asses of everyone in essos and later crosses the narrow sea to conquer seven kingdoms and rule over westeros.

same like in todays world indians are spreading everywhere and migrating western countries like US for better life. indian are more succesful , more no of indian graduates are passing out in US college and universities more than the general population of US. Average earning of Indian population experties in US is more than average earning of general population of US in most of the field. migrated indians are doin slightly more better in every field when away from their real home.

Iam not saying that indians are better race or thier culture is better. this has nothing to do with south asian being more intelligent or something. if we go to india itself the statistics are more disastrous and more indians are below poverty line in india.

i am just saying the rise of Valrian empire and conquest of westeros is the inspiration taken by GRRM from the indians, the way the indian have shown thier talent and competance in every field with rest of the world.

While the stuff about India is more or less true....

I don't think we'll ever see a Fantasy equivalent to India outside Indian writing,You can't generalize India as one culture it is utterly impossible,We maybe one nation but the culture,dialect and language changes every few kilometers.(18 official languages and these languages are spoken in 100's of dialects)

Coming to this meteoric rise thing,It's just an extremely minor portion of the population who actually ever get to go outside of India and work,but half of the smartest people in India don't get exported and generally stay back and work here itself,We've never been expansionist in our history and most of the cultural characteristics of India and Valyria don't match,for example there were never any slaves in Indian history,even the lowest classes in the middle ages and before were free,Bonded Labor was a European gift.

But I guess there was a time when India was the peak of the "civilized" world in terms of wealth and power.

The closest you can come to India in ASoIaF is probably going to be Asshai.

[danm_999]

I see a lot more of Rome in Valyria TBH.

• Italian Peninsula = Valyrian Peninsula.
  
• Ancient Empire that spanned most of the known world (to Europeans) that very publically 'fell' and ushered in an era of political instability and decentralisation.
  
• Like the Freehold, a semi-Republican form of government where a group of noble families held the political power (with the Patricians in the Republic, the Empire is obviously more complicated).
  
• Incredibly advanced engineering and metallurgy for the time period; following civilizations were unable to replicate much of their craft. The Westerosi can't make Valyrian Steel.
  
• Broke up the Old Empires of the Near East, in the same way Valyria smashed the Ghiscari.
  
• Prodigious road builders.
  
• Both established colonies across their respective continents that became the foundations for societies centuries after their fall.
  
• Established it's language (Latin) as the root for the majority of European languages, in the same way as the dialects of High Valyrian went on to dominate Essos.
  
• Volcanic destruction common to both Empires (though obviously the devastation of Pompeii and Herculaneum were drops in the bucket compared to what happened to Valyria).
  

[Señor de la Tormenta]

an aincent land of men more skilled than the others with some unique powers, once powerful who become to proud and were doomed and coursed, but with some survivors founding a kingdom in an other continent?

Sadly it sounds a lot like Numenor.

[Boiled and Leathered]

I see a lot more of Rome in Valyria TBH.

• Italian Peninsula = Valyrian Peninsula.
  
• Ancient Empire that spanned most of the known world (to Europeans) that very publically 'fell' and ushered in an era of political instability and decentralisation.
  
• Like the Freehold, a semi-Republican form of government where a group of noble families held the political power (with the Patricians in the Republic, the Empire is obviously more complicated).
  
• Incredibly advanced engineering and metallurgy for the time period; following civilizations were unable to replicate much of their craft. The Westerosi can't make Valyrian Steel.
  
• Broke up the Old Empires of the Near East, in the same way Valyria smashed the Ghiscari.
  
• Prodigious road builders.
  
• Both established colonies across their respective continents that became the foundations for societies centuries after their fall.
  
• Established it's language (Latin) as the root for the majority of European languages, in the same way as the dialects of High Valyrian went on to dominate Essos.
  
• Volcanic destruction common to both Empires (though obviously the devastation of Pompeii and Herculaneum were drops in the bucket compared to what happened to Valyria).
  

I have to agree with most of the poinys you give. Valyria does look a lot like Ancient Rome. I have to point out the conquest part (Old Ghis is obviously Egypt: Ghiza=Ghis, the piramids...). The roads also remind me a lot to Rome. But to me, I think Valyria has some Ancient Greece elements also. If you look at the map, the Valyrian peninsula reminds of the Greek Peninsula. Slaver's Bay also looks like the Black Sea, wich would fit with the actual map. Also, Valyria lacked the Roman brutality, with the gladiator barbarie and stuff. Besides, the language that was bastardized in eastern Eurasia was Greek rather than Latin, most notably, the later Egyptian Pharaohs spoke Greek rather than Egyptian, and most cyrillic languages derive from Greek. Even Latin itself draws heavily from Greek.

Historically, ancient Egypt is more likely, with monarchs marrying their sisters.

I think the thing about marrying among families was characteristic to the Targs only, rather than the whole Valyrian Freehold.

[Señor de la Tormenta]

n u m e n o r. n u m e n o r. n u m e n o r.

I cant belive no one sees it !!!!!!!!!!!

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

I have to agree with most of the poinys you give. Valyria does look a lot like Ancient Rome. I have to point out the conquest part (Old Ghis is obviously Egypt: Ghiza=Ghis, the piramids...). The roads also remind me a lot to Rome. But to me, I think Valyria has some Ancient Greece elements also. If you look at the map, the Valyrian peninsula reminds of the Greek Peninsula. Slaver's Bay also looks like the Black Sea, wich would fit with the actual map. Also, Valyria lacked the Roman brutality, with the gladiator barbarie and stuff. Besides, the language that was bastardized in eastern Eurasia was Greek rather than Latin, most notably, the later Egyptian Pharaohs spoke Greek rather than Egyptian, and most cyrillic languages derive from Greek. Even Latin itself draws heavily from Greek.

I think the thing about marrying among families was characteristic to the Targs only, rather than the whole Valyrian Freehold.

Isn't Ghiscari empire, Persia?

[Northern Nomad]

Isn't Ghiscari empire, Persia?

The Persian Empire did not have slavery, so no.

[The last Greenseer]

While the stuff about India is more or less true....

I don't think we'll ever see a Fantasy equivalent to India outside Indian writing,You can't generalize India as one culture it is utterly impossible,We maybe one nation but the culture,dialect and language changes every few kilometers.(18 official languages and these languages are spoken in 100's of dialects)

Coming to this meteoric rise thing,It's just an extremely minor portion of the population who actually ever get to go outside of India and work,but half of the smartest people in India don't get exported and generally stay back and work here itself,We've never been expansionist in our history and most of the cultural characteristics of India and Valyria don't match,for example there were never any slaves in Indian history,even the lowest classes in the middle ages and before were free,Bonded Labor was a European gift.

But I guess there was a time when India was the peak of the "civilized" world in terms of wealth and power.

The closest you can come to India in ASoIaF is probably going to be Asshai.

:agree:

Valyria as portrayed by Martin is vastly different from ancient India not only in terms of its cultural but also its philosophy. Valyrians are typically characterized by their conquests of foreign lands, subjugating the populace, and establishing their dominance. I can't think of any Indian emperor who strayed beyond the traditional boundaries. Also, the slave culture has never been part of any of their socio-economic policies.

[RumHam]

I think the thing about marrying among families was characteristic to the Targs only, rather than the whole Valyrian Freehold.

Catelyn's fourth chapter in Clash of Kings:

incest was a monstrous sin to both old gods and new, and the children of such wickedness were named abominations in sept and godswood alike. The dragon kings had wed brother to sister, but they were the blood of old Valyria where such practices had been common, and like their dragons the Targaryens answered to neither gods nor men.

[PrimeRhaegar]

to me its a fusion of the roman rebulic/ greek states/ atlantis

[grand old duke of stark]

I agree about the Romans. Two additional reasons. At its height, the Roman empire conquered/incorporated many other ancient civilisations. These included Egypt, Greece, Judaea, Turkey, parts of India, etc. That can account for the varying resemblances to histories and societies other than the Roman. Perhaps more pertinent is the fact that early kings and nobles of Britain were Romano-Britains. Many people think King Arthur was a Romano-Britain. So that would be a direct influence on having ancient Valyria be the source of the Targaryen rulers, even though they came along later in Westerosi history.

[raegal_targaryen]

the looks of valyrians are based on northmen and u could say riding dragons comes from the north men too since dragon carvings was used on ther boats, northmen enslaved pretty much everyone hey came over they always thaught they where above the rest..........

[raegal_targaryen]

the looks of valyrians are based on northmen and u could say riding dragons comes from the north men too since dragon carvings was used on ther boats, northmen enslaved pretty much everyone hey came over they always thaught they where above the rest..........

sounds familiar.

[manting]

Have none of you read Elric? Shame on you. Know your roots. The Targs and Valyria are based/plagerized on Elric, the Melnibonians, and their land of Melnibone. Bet you anything GRRM is a big Moorecock fan - not being weird - Micheal Moorecock wrote the Elric saga among other pretty good series.