Tharvot Posted August 9, 2013 Author Share Posted August 9, 2013 I would say telling Cersei of his plans. Ned wrongfully thought that Cersei had something to do with Jon Arryn's death and so it baffles me that he didn't think to himself that Cersei would have no problems getting rid of him as well. If I was Ned, I wouldn't have the sense of honor to give Cersei and her children a chance to leave. But then again that's what makes Eddard Stark, The Ned.In retrospect, I would have kept my mouth shut. Once Robert died, I would have gracefully resigned as hand and taken the family back to WF. Once there though, I would have supported Stannis' rebellion.However, that is a very Un-Ned thing to do... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel Green Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 That is LF who wanted to burn the whole place down so long as he could be the king of the ashes.That's a show line which I don't really think fits Littlefinger at all in the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conon394 Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 It was a difficult situation, in many respects, but I don't agree that he was guaranteed to lose. The political situation in the city was quite fragile, and could easily have gone against the Lannisters if one or two random events had gone a different way, or had been better-handled.True but it would require Ned more time than he had to stabilize his position before acting and that was taken away to great extent by the Cat arc - not just her silly trip to KL (and trusting LF) but also the some what forced run in and arrest of the imp.In any case to not warn Cersi would have more or less made Ned not Ned. He had seen Robert's rage, and taken the measure of the man as he was, and Ned had no taste for dead children. It might be stupid but it was the character acting quite the way he was shown over the course of the book.Like I said his only real blunder was not having his steward and guard captain - moving his girls the minute Robert left after re-making him the Hand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Monkey Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 I would say telling Cersei of his plans. Ned wrongfully thought that Cersei had something to do with Jon Arryn's death and so it baffles me that he didn't think to himself that Cersei would have no problems getting rid of him as well. If I was Ned, I wouldn't have the sense of honor to give Cersei and her children a chance to leave. But then again that's what makes Eddard Stark, The Ned.I think that giving Cersei a chance to leave was also foolish -- if he wanted to protect her, he should have forced her to leave. i understand that he didn't want a repeat of Aegon, Elia, and Rhaenys, and that's respectable, but he went about it he worst way. Eddard Stark's plan was to send the goldcloaks to arrest Cersei and her children; he knew that, realistically, the Lannisters would have fought back -- that's why he needed additional soldiers (goldcloaks) on top of his own personal guard. Here's the thing though -- in the fighting, there's a chance that the children could have been hurt or killed. Renly's plan to arrest them at night before they were ready was not only smarter but safer for the Lannisters (at least as far as Ned knows). Sure, it would have been scary to be dragged from your bed by soldiers, but wouldn't it also be scary for the children to be attacked by the goldcloaks in the Throne room, or to witness a bloodbath between goldcloaks and Lannister partisans? If Ned had taken Cersei and her children into custody, he could have guaranteed (at least, more so than now) their safety. He could have made them return to the Rock or forced them to board a ship to Essos in exile as was done to other pretenders to the Throne and enemies of the Crown in Westeros's history. Failing that, he could have bundled Joff, Tommen, and Myrcella to the North as hostages the way he did with Theon Greyjoy. Having them in custody could have also enabled him to force Tywin to withdraw his forces from the Riverlands. At the very least, it would have given him at least some breathing room to figure out exactly what to do about the situation. Even a few days of thought and manuevering could have helped.Instead, he asked Cersei to voluntarily leave, even though he knows / believes that she has killed one Hand and may have been involved in two attacks on his own son to protect her secret. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conon394 Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 I still say it Jon Arryn who blundered the worst.Varys should never have been allowed to stay around - period.He also let the key alliance that put Robert on the throne fall apart with the North and RIverlands more or less totally absent from the Kingdom's politics. I can understand the brother fighting is a thing of its own - fine. But to allow the Lannister influence to grow so powerful with no balance, no Highgarden, no Tullys and not inviting (forcefully) Ned back at least for a visit at KL...LF I grant is a well constructed curve ball, but Ned should have rode into a court where at least even if the kings brothers were feuding he could have had some Tully friends and Flowers vying with Lions to for influence and no Varys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejhawman Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 I vote with the OP. The Kingdoms were doomed to war by Cersei's cuckoldry. Ned could have saved his family by playing his hand better. At least accept Renly's plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tharvot Posted August 9, 2013 Author Share Posted August 9, 2013 That's a show line which I don't really think fits Littlefinger at all in the books.True, but it does fit his description pretty accurately. Varys seems to thrive on chaos. We see later on that he takes out Kevan Lannister simply because he wants the Lannisters and Tyrells to keep fighting. Its hard to pin down exactly where his passions and loyalties are, but he does seem to have some greater purpose in mind.LF is only true to himself. He double crosses everyone and anyone he can in order to move himself ahead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grand old duke of stark Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 Excellent suggestions, but Ned played a bad hand (pun not intendend) the best hand he could with honour. There was always a good chance he would succeed. Ultimately, I agree with the poster who said Ned should have told the girls and gotten them out of there before anyone could know it. Even in betrayal he would have more room to manoeuvre. I also agree with those who say he shouldn't have gone, but I don't see a honourable or honest way to evade Robert's offer. On the other hand, from the moment he found the antler branch in the dead direwolf's throat he had stifled his sense of foreboding. In his bedroom conversation with Cat it became more intense, but he still accepted the Handship. He should never have taken any of his children and should have been much more chary. I've criticised Rhaegar elsewhere for shaping things to prophecy, but conversely Ned should have been sensitive enough to the omens to better protect himself and his family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juanml82 Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 Or, to play it safe, offer Robert to foster Tommen in Winterfell. It's a tricky proposition which might not work, but things would have been a lot different if Robb heard of Ned's arrest and had Tommen available as a hostage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
direwienerdog Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 Renly: "I'll give you one hundred men to help you take Cersei and her children into custody."Eddard: "What a terrible plan. Go away."[the next ****Ing day]Eddard: "Lord Baelish, I need some men to help me take Cersei and her children into custody."Petyr: "You actually trust me? Bwahahaha!"You Ser are a gifted writer. BWAHAHA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kittykatknits Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 Telling Cersei. Seems he was just as fooled about Cersei as Sansa was after the death of Lady. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Mew Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 Not taking Renlys help and not sending Loras to arrest Gregor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drexyon7 Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 Not taking the throne for himself. :agree: This. Also didn't Mace Tyrell just show up in KL with an army!?!? That's how you accept the position of Hand of the King! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady of Long Lake Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 Going South, he should have stayed at Winterfell.I agree. He never should have let Catelyn and Luwin talk him out of his first instant answer of "no". It was ridiculous for them to think Ned could avenge Jon's murder whilest in a city surrounded by Lannisters and other strangers.Robert wouldn't have taken up arms if Ned said no. He loved Ned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Broke Howard Hughes Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 Ned's biggest mistake was thinking Cersei and Joffrey were worth saving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citadel_acolyte Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 In retrospect, I would have kept my mouth shut. Once Robert died, I would have gracefully resigned as hand and taken the family back to WF. Once there though, I would have supported Stannis' rebellion.However, that is a very Un-Ned thing to do... :agree:He could also have left KL with the girls and then doubled back by sea to seek out Stannis directly. There are a lot of Ned supporters here but I think his greatest error is alluded to in the title of the novel: he wouldn't (or couldn't) play the game of thrones early enough in the game. By this refusal, he sacrificed and endangered his family in order to hold himself to definition of honour that was not shared by the people around him. I like Ned. He is human. I grieved for him and for his family when he died. But he also fits the classical definition of a tragic hero (a noble character who possesses a tragic flaw). And he ultimately bares responsibility for his own downfall; I think the most tragic element is that in his final moments he realizes what his "honour" has cost his family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Dayne's Honor Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 Renly: "I'll give you one hundred men to help you take Cersei and her children into custody."Eddard: "What a terrible plan. Go away."[the next ****Ing day]Eddard: "Lord Baelish, I need some men to help me take Cersei and her children into custody."Petyr: "You actually trust me? Bwahahaha!":agree: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TalalOfDorne Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 Id say not going for Renly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwordInDaDarkness Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 Ned's biggest mistake in KL was not going with Renly's idea. Whether or not he told Cersei, she would have been ready for a confrontation. Ned's mistake was not realising that Cersei Lannister would be prepared.If he had to tell Cersei, he should have waited till the girls were gone. Ned didn't have the foresight to know that Cersei would not flee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambi76 Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 After the Rebellion: Not taking the throne for himselfDuring his stint as Hand: I don't even know where to start Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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