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rat faced men

pyon

By pyon,
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Sister without Banners Commoner

Sister without Banners

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The kings ravaging Westeros interpretation seems to be the most common, and does make sense, but I'm another one that doesn't buy it. My idea is that the beautiful woman represents Cersei, and the tiny men symbolise Tyrion - whose disappearance teases and torments Cersei - and the multiple fake Tyrions that are killed because of Cersei's pursuit of vengeance. It might sound crazy to some people, it just makes sense to me.

It would be interesting to see what other interpretations people have come up with.

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danm_999 Council Member

danm_999

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There aren't really any non-crackpot interpretations besides the 'Kings raping Westeros' one that I've seen. I wouldn't really be holding my breath for anything more in the next few books.

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pyon Commoner

pyon

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The kings ravaging Westeros interpretation seems to be the most common, and does make sense, but I'm another one that doesn't buy it. My idea is that the beautiful woman represents Cersei, and the tiny men symbolise Tyrion - whose disappearance teases and torments Cersei - and the multiple fake Tyrions that are killed because of Cersei's pursuit of vengeance. It might sound crazy to some people, it just makes sense to me.

It would be interesting to see what other interpretations people have come up with.

I do actually prefer this to the kings theory. Even though I think the vision is most likely a foreshadowing of something we haven't read yet.

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Blutraven Council Member

Blutraven

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If it was the kings raping Westeros, surely there would be more of them, there's been 8 kings so far in the story all fighting for land or freedom or something, Joffrey, Robb, Renly, Stannis, Balon, Euron, Tommen and Mance.

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danm_999 Council Member

danm_999

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If it was the kings raping Westeros, surely there would be more of them, there's been 8 kings so far in the story all fighting for land or freedom or something, Joffrey, Robb, Renly, Stannis, Balon, Euron, Tommen and Mance.

There have only been four Kings at any one time 'raping' Westeros at any one time.

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mankytoes Council Member

mankytoes

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I buy into 5 kings ravaging westeros. But like so many things that are still up in the air, i won't be surprised if I'm wrong.

Was OP wrong in saying there were four rat faced men? Why would they be rat faced, anyway?

Tricky, I have no clue. Could the woman be Dany, and the men her suiters? Meh, probably not.

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danm_999 Council Member

danm_999

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Was OP wrong in saying there were four rat faced men? Why would they be rat faced, anyway?

Tricky, I have no clue. Could the woman be Dany, and the men her suiters? Meh, probably not.

It's four rat faced men, representing the four kings ravaging Westeros.

The acolytes at the beginning of AFFC point out that Renly dies before Balon is crowned, so there are only ever four Kings in Westeros.

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Kanali Squire

Kanali

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If it was the kings raping Westeros, surely there would be more of them, there's been 8 kings so far in the story all fighting for land or freedom or something, Joffrey, Robb, Renly, Stannis, Balon, Euron, Tommen and Mance.

At the time of the vision, there were only four kings fighting over Westeros. Renly was already dead, Tommen and Euron had yet to ascend to the throne, and Mance was building and moving his armies beyond the Wall.

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Alliser Trump Freerider

Alliser Trump

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I posted my interpretation of this particular vision in the "Dany's Visions in the HOTU" thread here:

http://asoiaf.wester...g/page__st__180

There are several other theories for this vision in there, also. The kings raping Westeros theory never really vibed with me. It seems too vague, given the detail of the vision itself, so I thought about it for a while until I came up with what I really believe this vision depicts:

*******************************************************************************

Posted 27 July 2013 - 11:27 AM

Thank the gods! I have finally figured out #1:

1) a scene where four men with rat faces are raping a beautiful woman

This vision is actually a vision of the entire Riot of King's Landing happening all at once, and each piece of the vision is an actual piece of a separate event that occurred during that riot. I'll quote the actual vision in its entirety:

"In one room, a beautiful woman sprawled naked on the floor while four little men crawled over her. They had rattish pointed faces and tiny pink hands, like the servitor who had brought her the glass of shade. One was pumping between her thighs. Another savaged her breasts, worrying at the nipples with his wet red mouth, tearing and chewing."

Now, at face value, this vision doesn't match any actual event, but since it's just a vision, it doesn't have to. Only some of the visions are straightforward depictions, the other ones are both symbols and real things mixed together. This vision falls into that category. It's not a complete metaphor, but it's also not a completely exact depiction. Everything contained in the vision, however, was present during the riot, either metaphorically or actually.

The beautiful woman- There was at least one strikingly beautiful woman, Cersei, who was present at the riot.

The naked woman being raped- This is Lollys Stokeworth. She was raped by half a hundred men during the riot and later found naked wandering down Sowbelly Row. She's not beautiful, which is why this vision doesn't depict her particular event exactly. It blends a part of her event with other parts of the riot.

The rat-men- These are some of the men that participated in the riot. They were, at one point, likened to rats by the Hound, when he referred to his encounter with them ("“Brave?” His laugh was half a snarl. “A dog doesn’t need courage to chase off rats. They had me thirty to one, and not a man of them dared face me.”", ACOK, Sansa IV)

The four men- According to Sandor, there were exactly four men who held down Ser Aron Santagar and bashed his skull in with a cobblestone during the riot. The Hound himself even killed one of them.

The man savaging the breasts- This is the only part that I'm not 100% sure about, but I have a strong belief that this is an allusion to Tyrek Lannister, A.K.A. Wet Nurse, and his mysterious disappearance during the riot. I think this may be a reference to what actually happened to him. In other words, he nursed the savages with his own blood, since they were known to be VERY hungry for Lannister blood. This would have been a very smart play by Varys. It would have gotten rid of someone who was next to Robert when he died and who may have held on to some potentially dangerous information regarding the nature of the king's demise, and it also would have given the smallfolk something to satisfy their bloodlust, at least temporarily. He couldn't give them Tyrion, whom they wanted most, because he already knew that Tyrion was too valuable to sacrifice, but giving them Wet Nurse would have been an excellent way to keep things from getting completely out of control, as long as they agreed to destroy all evidence of what they did to him. Varys most likely already knew the riot was coming, because he's Varys, so he most certainly would have had a plan in motion by that point to try and contain it (and possibly to actually protect Tyrion from harm). Tyrek's sacrifice makes perfect sense.

*******************************************************************************

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