Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Schlacko

Hodor = Great Other

Recommended Posts

In Norse Mythology there is a god called Hod, also spelled Hoder and Hodur.

Hod is the god of all things cold and dark.

The Great Other is the god of cold and dark.

His name must not be spoken.

Nobody but Hodor ever says Hodor, in fact nobody even knows what it means or where he came up with it. It's not his name, his name is Walder.

Hodor might be the name of the Great Other, since it is forbidden to be spoken, nobody he's met would recognize it. (I have wondered if Melisandre knows the name, she dare not speak it, but would she recognize it if someone else said it?)

Hod has a handicap; he is blind. Hodor apparently has a handicap as well... but he might be faking.

Hod is said to be 'of sufficient strength.' Hodor is quite strong.

Or maybe Hodor is just an agent of the Great Other... to use a Norse Myth analog, Hodor = Hod, Great Other = Loki, Bran = Baldur, since Hodor is physically bringing Bran north, presumably where the Great Other would be found, but what will play the part of the mistletoe?

Perhaps Hodor has green dreams like Bran, dreams given to him by the Great Other, who told him his name in said dreams. Hodor isn't all that dumb, at least he understands the instructions others give him. If you ask an autistic person to hand you a spoon, you aren't getting that spoon. He could just have some kind of aphasia, where he got so scared by the green dreams that he could no longer say anything but the name of the one who gave him the dreams! Hodor is more than some simpleton who drags Bran around, he has a purpose, he has something to do with the Great Other. Either he is the Great Other, or is serving him, or is being controlled by him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

People I don't know Norse Mythology tbh. Somebody please confirm this ain't a troll thread.

It's true. He was the one who killed Baldur with the mistletoe, tricked by Loki.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's true. He was the one who killed Baldur with the mistletoe, tricked by Loki.

Ok Thanks. And my apologies to the OP Schlacko.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

People I don't know Norse Mythology tbh. Somebody please confirm this ain't a troll thread.

Ha, did I blow your mind so fiercly you could only conclude I was trolling? I assure I'm not trolling. Hod is indeed the Norse god of cold and darkness, but he's in no way evil. His name IS also written as Hoder and Hodur, you could google these yourself if you don't trust anybody here... it could just be a coincidence though. But maybe GRRM was inspired by Norse mythology.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes this is all quite true BUT I do nto think Hodr was seen as dark but rather was tricked by Loki into killing Balder.

There is No doubt in my mind that Balder (Norse god of death and rebirth) and Hodr who is his brother but accidentally kills him are important in the story. I am just not sure how. Hodor has the names of both Walder (which is THE SAME NAME as BALDER in real life the great B-V- W shift) and Hodr the god who willed Balder) Also Balder was MARRIED to Nanna (aka of Nan).

Now just to confuse the issue there was a similar death/life WELSH god called Bran who shared many of the characteristics of Balder. he became a disembodies head which is in may ways how paraplegics would have been seen in thge dark ages (ie Bran). Bran Stark is in personality very much like Balder.

So I am not sure how GRRM is playing the story but I am quite certain the names and associated are NOT accidental

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In Norse Mythology there is a god called Hod, also spelled Hoder and Hodur.

Hod is the god of all things cold and dark.

The Great Other is the god of cold and dark.

His name must not be spoken.

Nobody but Hodor ever says Hodor, in fact nobody even knows what it means or where he came up with it. It's not his name, his name is Walder.

Hodor might be the name of the Great Other, since it is forbidden to be spoken, nobody he's met would recognize it. (I have wondered if Melisandre knows the name, she dare not speak it, but would she recognize it if someone else said it?)

I'm gonna stop you right there. Other people do say Hodor. Bran says Hodor in response to Hodor all the time, and that is what people call him in lieu of his name, so they have to say it to call him. When traveling North after escaping Theon at Winterfell Jojen even tells Bran that he thinks Hodor likes it when Bran says "Hodor's name". Which is when Bran tells him that it isn't his name, just something he says. (Unless you're referring to the Voldemort type of "no one says his name" instead of speaking a name has some power, which makes more sense and you can disregard this point, although the "Great Other" has only been references by Melisandre as part of her religion, it's not something the North use in their mythology which is why no one would recognize the spoken word).

.

I don't think Hodor is all he appears, but I don't think it's anything as complicated as what you suggest. Hodor is connected with Bran in more than he is Bran's pack mule. I'm not sure exactly how warging humans works, but if Hodor was having green dreams or prophetic dreams surely the magical connection put in place by Bran's warging him would give us some clue. There are a lot of references to Greek, Norse, Roman, Pagan, and even Christianity if you look close enough, but I don't think GRRM is favoring one ideology over another in a one-for-one rehasing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm gonna stop you right there. Other people do say Hodor. Bran says Hodor in response to Hodor all the time, and that is what people call him in lieu of his name, so they have to say it to call him. When traveling North after escaping Theon at Winterfell Jojen even tells Bran that he thinks Hodor likes it when Bran says "Hodor's name".

You're kind of nitpicking, obviously what I meant is that Hodor isn't an actual word or even a real name as far as anyone knows.

My assumption in regards to Melisandre not speaking his name is that it's some kind of bad luck... like with Macbeth.

But I wonder what if Melisandre were to meet Bran/Hodor/Meera/Jojen, and Bran says "this big guy is Hodor" would she then crap her pants at the mention of the name?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

<snip>

Erm ...No. Hodor is Walder and is a stableboy and Bran's companion. Nothing more. Unless you have some actual evidence that appears in the text to back up your claim?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You're kind of nitpicking, obviously what I meant is that Hodor isn't an actual word or even a real name as far as anyone knows.

My assumption in regards to Melisandre not speaking his name is that it's some kind of bad luck... like with Macbeth.

But I wonder what if Melisandre were to meet Bran/Hodor/Meera/Jojen, and Bran says "this big guy is Hodor" would she then crap her pants at the mention of the name?

Yeah that's why I put in the "Unless you're referring to the Voldemort type of "no one says his name" instead of speaking a name has some power, which makes more sense and you can disregard this point" part. :)

I still say this seems far fetched for me, and the main reason why is GRRM explicitly stated that we would never have an absolute sign of which of Westeros religions are "real" and which are "fake" and if the "Great Other" of the Red God's religion is proven to be real in such a way it would contradict his earlier statement. I think the White Walkers do have a leader, but a mortal one. I don't think they're directly connected with Hodor but I do like Osha's suggestion that he got his size from Giant's Blood which might also explain his mental state. (Although being a descendent of Dunk is another favorite).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know the deal with Voldemort, I haven't seen any of those movies or read any books because everything about them seems terrible.

I still say this seems far fetched for me, and the main reason why is GRRM explicitly stated that we would never have an absolute sign of which of Westeros religions are "real" and which are "fake" and if the "Great Other" of the Red God's religion is proven to be real in such a way it would contradict his earlier statement.

What a load. Shadow assassins, reading the fires, leeches of doom, Beric/Catelyn... the fact that Melisandre doesn't get cold or need to eat.

Bran seeing the past through trees.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If/when Hodor dies in both the books and show I'm going to be really sad :crying: . Kristian Nairn has done a really good job at playing Hodor and making him more dimensional than the books, even if his only line is Hodor. I'd hate for Hodor to be a pawn of the Great Other. However, I've read Crackpot theories about the word 'Hodor' being a word in the Old Tongue that is used for protection against evil?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The god Hodr is generally portrayed as blind, and Loki had to guide his hand when throwing the mistletoe. And there was a whole deal about Baldur being made invulnerable to everything except mistletoe, and there was a gathering of gods throwing stuff at him and not hurting him until Loki persuaded/helped Hodr to throw the mistletoe.

None of this applies to Hodor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I still say this seems far fetched for me, and the main reason why is GRRM explicitly stated that we would never have an absolute sign of which of Westeros religions are "real" and which are "fake" and if the "Great Other" of the Red God's religion is proven to be real in such a way it would contradict his earlier statement.

I agree with that. It's a nice find by the OP, but I doubt it's more than coincidence, and the parallels don't go that far tbh.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The god Hodr is generally portrayed as blind, and Loki had to guide his hand when throwing the mistletoe. And there was a whole deal about Baldur being made invulnerable to everything except mistletoe, and there was a gathering of gods throwing stuff at him and not hurting him until Loki persuaded/helped Hodr to throw the mistletoe.

None of this applies to Hodor.

How exactly alike do they have to be for you? Sheesh, you want GRRM to copy the Prose Edda word for word?

There's the names being the same, the cold/dark aspects, that the name shan't be spoken and Hodor's name is not used in any other way. It makes as much sense as all the Rhaegar and Lyanna equal Jon talk, which I mostly agree with although it is largely speculative.

You're dismissive of what I posted because, you didn't think of it? Cause it doesn't fit the narrative you're expecting?

Also I don't know why you summarized the Loki/Hod/Baldur thing for me, I'm the one that brought it up, I'm familiar with it. Hel I even played the part of Loki in a college mythology class when we acted out some Norse dramas, damn near broke the plant that hid the mistletoe twig.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know the deal with Voldemort, I haven't seen any of those movies or read any books because everything about them seems terrible.

What a load. Shadow assassins, reading the fires, leeches of doom, Beric/Catelyn... the fact that Melisandre doesn't get cold or need to eat.

Bran seeing the past through trees.

Not at all, it is a load to assume that gods are necessary for a single one of those things.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×