I cant believe why daenerys is view like a god......by some readers

[Old-Growth]

I wholeheartedly agree with this post.

I don't: how is she going to get there with so large an entourage? Walk the Demon road? She needs ships and many more than Victorian has/will capture---probably several hundred more. She will have the Unsullied (or what was the point of the diversion to Slavers Bay in the first place?), plus the Second Sons, Stormcrows, and Windblown (I assume that the deal with the Tattered Prince will go down), plus thousands of the Freedmen who will not want to risk staying in Slavers Bay. The ships of the Iron Fleet are already filled up with iron born, Victarion will capture at most fifty to one hundred suitable for the voyage to Westeros, and some ships need to be left to transport the Ghiscari legions back to New Ghis. This will be a logistical nightmare any way you slice it.

Oh and there are also the Company of the Cat and the Long Lances. The former might be left to fend for themselves, though that does seem to be rather an unpleasant thing to do to them just because their Captain is a vicious asshole.

If the Volantene fleet can be defeated, that may provide the remaining ships needed, however, I am beginning to suspect that once they hear about the pale mare they may turn around and head right back to Volantis even before they reach Meereen.

[Parwan]

You seem to be under the misconception that I think Dany is a mega villain and these actions are indicative of such. I haven't said that, nor anything like that. My posts were merely pointing out the far more significant death and destruction Dany's actions have wreacked in comparison to the other IT contenders. It seems to me that the sacks of Astapor and Mereen as well as the propagation of the Bloody Flux are points against her, and I have yet to see anything on your part to disuade me. Ignoring the damage merely because we lack numerical evidence seems silly when we rarely ever have exact figures for any of the damages caused throughout the series, and have to apply common sense.

"Mega villain" is my term. I don't say that you or any other Dany critic have used it. Nevertheless, I think it's a fair term. I maintain that you and others have, in fact, said something very much like it. You said, " "Dany's ordered the sack of two cities, kicked off a plague epidemic, destroyed the economy of Slaver's Bay with no viable alternative, and she hasn't even reached Westeros yet." I don't think that any of this is accurate. In particular, the horrendous outbreak of the bloody flux took place in Astapor. The Yunkai'i brought the plague to Meereen. I have no problem with calling the Yunkai'i mega villains. Do you? The report of how the Astapori are being driven toward Dany's city reaches her court. Ser Barristan says, "Your Grace. I have known the bloody flux to destroy whole armies when left to spread unchecked. The seneschal is right. We cannot have the Astapori in Meereen." If you are correct about how Dany "kicked off" the plague, then what the hell is Barristan talking about? The sickness would already be in the city. What good would closing the gates do?

I never said or implied that we should ignore damage because we lack figures. I don't think you have established that Dany is the one responsible for the damage you try to lay at her door. Nevertheless, pointing out that there are no figures is still worthwhile. I'm afraid that common sense is not always applied in these forums when talking about damage. It's worthwhile to say that our knowledge is often less than it could be.

It is stated in the text that Meereen was sacked. The sacking of King's Landing is mentioned many times. I am not aware of any statement in the text that Astapor was sacked. Killing a lot of people is not the same thing as sacking a place. It is certainly not the same thing as ordering the sack of a place. Pointing out that we don't even know how many people were killed in Astapor is, I'd say, a good example of employing common sense.

Similarly, ignoring that the Bloody Flux was first sighted within Dany's own army and spread most rigorously where Dany's army was situated seems like shaping the text to suit your own desires, and I have no intent to argue against that type of reading.

Once again, you have not even established the fact that the blood flux was sighted in Dany's army. There was a report. This report was mentioned by a man with an agenda. He was trying to get his queen to march on and abandon any idea of attacking Meereen.

[Parwan]

Looking at the situation in Westeros, say Moat Caitlin and even the Wall for examples, the other IT competitors are not doing any better.

Saying the Flux is Danys fault is like saying the Others are Stannis' fault.

...

And if Stannis were responsible for the Others, then I'd have no problem calling him a mega villain. Characters who do such things deserve such titles. When posters accuse characters of such things, said posters are, in my opinion, essentially accusing them of being just that sort of villains.

[Martini Sigil]

Dany is a great person - she is a true liberator in the East. The historical importance of what she is doing for the slaves of Worlderos is immense.

Of course she's wielding power awkwardly and clumsily as she learns, and she tends to bite off more than she should.

She is flawed and immature, but she is not ordinary - she is great, she is the Dragon.

More on point, ruling in Slaver's Bay should be good practice for ruling Westeros, if she ever does.

I'm kind of with this.

[SeanF]

"Mega villain" is my term. I don't say that you or any other Dany critic have used it. Nevertheless, I think it's a fair term. I maintain that you and others have, in fact, said something very much like it. You said, " "Dany's ordered the sack of two cities, kicked off a plague epidemic, destroyed the economy of Slaver's Bay with no viable alternative, and she hasn't even reached Westeros yet." I don't think that any of this is accurate. In particular, the horrendous outbreak of the bloody flux took place in Astapor. The Yunkai'i brought the plague to Meereen. I have no problem with calling the Yunkai'i mega villains. Do you? The report of how the Astapori are being driven toward Dany's city reaches her court. Ser

Barristan says, "Your Grace. I have known the bloody flux to destroy whole armies when left to spread unchecked. The seneschal is right. We cannot have

the Astapori in Meereen." If you are correct about how Dany "kicked off" the plague, then what the hell is Barristan talking about? The sickness would already be in the city. What good would closing the gates do?

I never said or implied that we should ignore damage because we lack figures. I don't think you have established that Dany is the one responsible for the damage you try to lay at her door. Nevertheless, pointing out that there are no figures is still worthwhile. I'm afraid that common sense is not always applied in these forums when talking about damage. It's worthwhile to say that our

knowledge is often less than it could be.

It is stated in the text that Meereen was sacked. The sacking of King's Landing is mentioned many times. I am not aware of any statement in the text that Astapor was sacked. Killing a lot of people is not the samething as sacking a place. It is certainly not the same thing as ordering the sack of a place. Pointing out that we don't even know how many people were killed in Astapor is, I'd say, a good example of employing common sense.

IMO, there's very little doubt that Dany sacked Astapor. The fact that she focused on killing, rather than pillage, doesn't alter that.

[TheMaxx]

I just saw a photo on Facebook with that cheesy horrid season 3 Mhysa scene, and someone caption'ed it 'Fuck yeah, white saviour complex!' lol. I actually saw truth in those words.

[Lady Fevre Dream]

I just saw a photo on Facebook with that cheesy horrid season 3 Mhysa scene, and someone caption'ed it 'Fuck yeah, white saviour complex!' lol. I actually saw truth in those words.

The casting for that scene on the tv show was awful. In all fairness to the books, it seems that slavery can and does reach out and grab everyone from everywhere, that did bug me. The show seems to not do much to make clear that people from all over get enslaved. Actually, the slavery in itself.......may be an example of the best racial integration in the book series. No one race seems off limits for enslaving.

[SeanF]

In the books we find that members of all races are slave traders, and slaves.

[The Dragon Queen]

I think it's too early to declare what Dany did in Slaver's Bay a failure. A mess, certainly. But I don't think it's over yet. What Dany did was revolutionary and historic - freeing the slaves. Of course there would be a huge backlash to that. But isn't it a fight worth fighting? (How bloody and messy was the US Civil War?)

Bloody practice is still better than no practice. No way to get good at something without trying.

:agree: practice makes perfect! however regarding the main post Danny IS NOT a GOD

[SeanF]

:agree: practice makes perfect! however regarding the main post Danny IS NOT a GOD

I think it is at least possible that Danerys is in fact, a god, or at any rate, a demi-god.

[Parwan]

IMO, there's very little doubt that Dany sacked Astapor. The fact that she focused on killing, rather than pillage, doesn't alter that.

We are in danger of getting hung up on legalisms, or semantics, or just lexicography. However, I think one does sometimes have to go into technical details. At times it's important to point out that things are uncertain because we don't have accurate figures, or any figures at all. And at times it's important to look at definitions of words.

In the dictionaries I've consulted, "to sack" means "to loot or plunder." The noun "sack" is defined as "the looting or pillaging of a captured town." Thus, killing a lot of people doesn't qualify as sacking. More importantly, Daenerys Targaryen in this area looks like a better than average leader in Martin's world. Far from ordering the sacking of places she captures, she restrains her army. Once again, Dany fits in. Here she looks relatively good. This is a restricted area, but it does exist and should be acknowledged.

I think it is at least possible that Danerys is in fact, a god, or at any rate, a demi-god.

How about a prophet? That's more or less the way the red priests see her. How about a demon? That's the way some of her enemies see her. I agree with those who say that, for better or worse, she has a lot of potential.

[Parwan]

The casting for that scene on the tv show was awful. In all fairness to the books, it seems that slavery can and does reach out and grab everyone from everywhere, that did bug me. The show seems to not do much to make clear that people from all over get enslaved. Actually, the slavery in itself.......may be an example of the best racial integration in the book series. No one race seems off limits for enslaving.

Yeah, the TV casting was probably a matter of saving some money on an expensive show. This is not the place to go into the matter, but an important aspect of the books is lost. The HBO version makes it appear that the slavers have some weird pipeline to North Africa.

[WhineHaus]

From what I see in the forums, many peoples' "godlike" view of Dany comes in response to other peoples' complete vitriol of her. I find both sides (uber-Dany fans vs. anti-Dany readers) pretty wrapped up in polarity.

I've read some great analyses of Dany that don't include those common "godlike" tropes, yet still critically engage her character and arc. Personally, I am a Dany fan, but for more simple reasons. I enjoy strong female characters, and even more, I enjoy flawed characters.

[raegal_targaryen]

this turned out to be an okay thread after all :D

[Rhymes with Weak]

She might soon have a god-complex, so that's something.

[Natasi]

I love Dany. Deep down I hope she rides Drogon to victory against the Others in Westeros alongside the riders of Viserion and Rhaegal. I could care less about the Iron Throne as I feel it will be of little importance once the true threat of the Others comes crashing down.

That said...

I see why people don't like her. I see her inexperience and her mistakes. I see her willfullness and her ignorance to "they way things are" versus her desire to make them the way she wants them to be. The very fact that she has been in Essos this whole time, her profile looming over the enlightened folk in Westeros (she's the "last" Targaryen, she has dragons, she is coming), it's epic. But it's also epic fail in the sense that her heels were literally dragging in a place that doesn't respect her heritage or what she could possibly bring to the table and just wants her to GTFO so they can continue enslaving people the way they've been doing for ages.

That said...

I don't believe she is mad. I think the phrase, "Targaryen madness" is blatantly overused by people trying to analyze her. I think she plays into it, being the blood of the dragon, to bolster herself against EVERYONE'S doubts. She probably doesn't even believe it herself. She's done some crazy shit, though. If you managed to hatch three dragon eggs via a sucidial walk through a burning pyre, I challenge you not to feel incredibly empowered. She is not a god, and I recall GRRM saying somewhere that we will not see any gods in ASoIaF so there's that. But I don't see her any less favorable than say Jon Snow or Arya Stark, Sansa, etc. who all have a role to play and whose journeys are ours to witness through these lovely books. I think the fact that Dany has been separated geographically from the more popular characters leads some of us to believe she is not a good thing for Westeros and will turn out to be a villain or someone like Stannis who is uncompromising and inconsiderate of the people's plight. I just can't wait for her to land in Westeros, whether it be as Aegon and his sister-wives did, or through some other route. Maybe then people will change their opinion of the girl. Until then, I will gladly sew my dragon banner.

[The Dragon Queen]

I love Dany. Deep down I hope she rides Drogon to victory against the Others in Westeros alongside the riders of Viserion and Rhaegal. I could care less about the Iron Throne as I feel it will be of little importance once the true threat of the Others comes crashing down.

That said...

I see why people don't like her. I see her inexperience and her mistakes. I see her willfullness and her ignorance to "they way things are" versus her desire to make them the way she wants them to be. The very fact that she has been in Essos this whole time, her profile looming over the enlightened folk in Westeros (she's the "last" Targaryen, she has dragons, she is coming), it's epic. But it's also epic fail in the sense that her heels were literally dragging in a place that doesn't respect her heritage or what she could possibly bring to the table and just wants her to GTFO so they can continue enslaving people the way they've been doing for ages.

That said...

I don't believe she is mad. I think the phrase, "Targaryen madness" is blatantly overused by people trying to analyze her. I think she plays into it, being the blood of the dragon, to bolster herself against EVERYONE'S doubts. She probably doesn't even believe it herself. She's done some crazy shit, though. If you managed to hatch three dragon eggs via a sucidial walk through a burning pyre, I challenge you not to feel incredibly empowered. She is not a god, and I recall GRRM saying somewhere that we will not see any gods in ASoIaF so there's that. But I don't see her any less favorable than say Jon Snow or Arya Stark, Sansa, etc. who all have a role to play and whose journeys are ours to witness through these lovely books. I think the fact that Dany has been separated geographically from the more popular characters leads some of us to believe she is not a good thing for Westeros and will turn out to be a villain or someone like Stannis who is uncompromising and inconsiderate of the people's plight. I just can't wait for her to land in Westeros, whether it be as Aegon and his sister-wives did, or through some other route. Maybe then people will change their opinion of the girl. Until then, I will gladly sew my dragon banner.

:bowdown: :bowdown:

:bowdown:

:bowdown:

:bowdown:

[KingHodorTargaryen]

Alright. There seems to be three big areas of hate for Dany.

1. I don't want her on the Iron Throne because I want someone else.

` Well, to each his/her own.

2. Fifty Shades of the Han Solo wannabe Daario.

Yeah, but she's going back to her ASOS roots when shes goes to Westeros.

3. She's a shitty ruler.

Well come on, this is hardly fair considering her circumstances. She is ruling a new empire with no experience while people in our era are still in school. Besides, the fact that she sucks adds to the story. She isn't the woman come to kiss the kingdoms booboos and make everyone all better. She is a young girl dealing with famine, plague, war, and a new social status of no slavery. Ser Barristan is her only genuine ally and her "advisors" and husband dearest were plotting to kill her. What do you expect?

Dany is an exceptional character, but she has her flaws. Some see these flaws as too blatant to ignore. Others seem to think that these flaws make her shine all the more. She can be exceptionally boring (why does no one talk about the early Qarth chapters) but when it picks up, it really knocks you off your feet. I love Dany, and I think she is one of the best written coming of age medieval characters ever. Maybe that makes me biased. It probably does. But to each his/her own.

[Aethermancer]

IMO, there's very little doubt that Dany sacked Astapor. The fact that she focused on killing, rather than pillage, doesn't alter that.

She pillaged their most valuable property: The Unsullied. (And pretty much everything else that they could carry)

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

cause she is....

JK

I have never seen anyone apart from TV viewers treat her like a god.