Liam Cunningham's Davos "Secret"

[franbatista123]

Dunno, but I imagine it was something ambiguous. Don't see GRRM telling him something overly specific like "Davos will be Azor Azai Reborn" or "Davos will be king of Westeros"

On the other hand, it had to be something significant for Liam Cunnigham to react the way he did to it.

This is just speculation, but i think GRRM said to him that Davos will be alive in the end.

[Newstar]

Dunno, but I imagine it was something ambiguous. Don't see GRRM telling him something overly specific like "Davos will be Azor Azai Reborn" or "Davos will be king of Westeros"

On the other hand, it had to be something significant for Liam Cunnigham to react the way he did to it.

He seemed pleased about it, so assuming the secret is about Davos' arc, I'm hopeful it means good things for Davos, or at the very least that he does something pretty badass in TWOW.

This is just speculation, but i think GRRM said to him that Davos will be alive in the end.

Could be, but I doubt it.

[Ghost's Shadow]

He throws Rickon into the ocean and rides Shaggydog himself.

[Knight Of Winter]

Heh. My main takeaway from this thread is that we need TWOW stat, although I'll take a nebulous "secret" about Davos' arc in TWOW over a Sansa chapter that's "sure to be controversial" any day (since "controversial" is a euphemism for "widely despised," LOL: see also Miley Cyrus' "controversial" performance at the VMAs).

...I'm really liking the idea of Davos teaming up with the northerners, although I'm hoping that can somehow happen without him betraying or turning on Stannis.

Could happen... Interesting idea. Although I believe that, helping Northerners or no, Davos would never knowingly go against Stannis. I mean, Davos already lost 4 sons, was threatened death several times and imprisoned, saw death of Maester Cressen and rise of Rh'llorism in Stan's service - and if all of that couldn't diminish his faith in Stannis, nothing Northerners say ever will.

Dunno, but I imagine it was something ambiguous. Don't see GRRM telling him something overly specific like "Davos will be Azor Azai Reborn" or "Davos will be king of Westeros"

On the other hand, it had to be something significant for Liam Cunnigham to react the way he did to it.

As long as it's not Davos is secret Targ, I'm fine with it :P

[Zylathas]

I just had the "worst" idea possible about what could have been this secret. Someone @ wic.net posted about Davos and Melisandre a "et tu, brutus?" line.... And it got me thinking.

Let's asume the gnc is true and that they plan on actually removing Stannis, as they know he won't accept losing. How would it be that if it mirrored Ceasar's murder. Davos has just come back to Winterfell, having alienated from Stannis in the time he has been away and starting to dig more for Rickon which he sees as a "son".

So Stannis would be entering Winterfell keep, all northern lords would start stabbing him and Davos joins at his very last moment as he thinks Stannis "deserves" the death after being stabbed so many times.

How would that feel? Ok, it's pure crackpot, I would hate it. But it's that akward moment where I think. Might george have this in mind?

[Rhaegar's Love]

I still think Davos could end up being Lightbringer. I made a thread about it here

Yeah a bit of shameless self promotion I know but I think there could be something to it :D

[Belisarius09]

R+L=D!!!

[Newstar]

I just had the "worst" idea possible about what could have been this secret. Someone @ wic.net posted about Davos and Melisandre a "et tu, brutus?" line.... And it got me thinking.

Let's asume the gnc is true and that they plan on actually removing Stannis, as they know he won't accept losing. How would it be that if it mirrored Ceasar's murder. Davos has just come back to Winterfell, having alienated from Stannis in the time he has been away and starting to dig more for Rickon which he sees as a "son".

So Stannis would be entering Winterfell keep, all northern lords would start stabbing him and Davos joins at his very last moment as he thinks Stannis "deserves" the death after being stabbed so many times.

How would that feel? Ok, it's pure crackpot, I would hate it. But it's that akward moment where I think. Might george have this in mind?

Well, GRRM already had his Julius Caesar allusion moment with Jon's stabbing by the NW brothers, which (to me, at least) clearly recalled Julius Caesar's assassination, even if there was no "Et tu, Brute" moment. I doubt he would resort to that twice.

As much as GRRM loves setting up warm, loving, friendly, loyal bonds/relationships only to rip them apart later in the most painful way possible (Catelyn/Brienne, Jaime/Tyrion, etc.), I cannot, cannot, cannot see Davos turning on Stannis like that.

[Steve Moss II]

Well, GRRM already had his Julius Caesar allusion moment with Jon's stabbing by the NW brothers, which (to me, at least) clearly recalled Julius Caesar's assassination,

As much as GRRM loves setting up warm, loving, friendly, loyal bonds/relationships only to rip them apart later in the most painful way possible (Catelyn/Brienne, Jaime/Tyrion, etc.), I cannot, cannot, cannot see Davos turning on Stannis like that.

Davos would turn on Stannis to protect Stannis. In other words, Stannis may go to far causing Davos to turn. Something along the lines of "King Stannis would do no such thing. You are not King Stannis, but rather a slave of the fire witch."

[King in the North Carolina]

you know, i just realized WHY davos seemed so boring to me...

Welcome to the boards and all, but I hate you.

:)

[Antler's Fury]

I'm guessing it's GNC-related. Davos ends up bonding with Rickon and might have to make a choice whether to stay loyal to Stannis or side with the northerners.

This is what I really don't get about GNC. The Northern lords want the Starks back in Winterfell. So does Stannis. The only cause for conflict is the possibility that the Northerners want the Starks to be Kings, while Stannis wants them as Lords and Wardens. Why fight against Stannis when he's simply fighting to restore the North to its pre-war status? The Northern army was slaughtered, and now they have to contend with winter, the Botons, the Freys, and the Ironborn, not to mention the Others. Backstabbing Stannis would not only bring war back to an exhausted North after the Northerners and Stannis have just begun healing it, but also give the Others an opening to exploit. It would also be pretty low and dishonorable of the Northerners to fight in Ned's name and then backstab Stannis and delcare independence, both of which are things that they know Ned would not do. This, plus the fact that the Northerners seemed utterly incapable of fighting back, covertly or otherwise, until Stannis' arrival galvanized them into doing so, suggests that the GNC does not hold water as a theory. Indeed, one wonders what Rickon could do to shake Davos' loyalty that losing four sons could not do.

[aceluby]

This is what I really don't get about GNC. The Northern lords want the Starks back in Winterfell. So does Stannis. The only cause for conflict is the possibility that the Northerners want the Starks to be Kings, while Stannis wants them as Lords and Wardens. Why fight against Stannis when he's simply fighting to restore the North to its pre-war status? The Northern army was slaughtered, and now they have to contend with winter, the Botons, the Freys, and the Ironborn, not to mention the Others. Backstabbing Stannis would not only bring war back to an exhausted North after the Northerners and Stannis have just begun healing it, but also give the Others an opening to exploit. It would also be pretty low and dishonorable of the Northerners to fight in Ned's name and then backstab Stannis and delcare independence, both of which are things that they know Ned would not do. This, plus the fact that the Northerners seemed utterly incapable of fighting back, covertly or otherwise, until Stannis' arrival galvanized them into doing so, suggests that the GNC does not hold water as a theory. Indeed, one wonders what Rickon could do to shake Davos' loyalty that losing four sons could not do.

The North Remembers. If Stannis truly cared about the North and wasn't simply using the North as a means to an end he would have helped them when they had a common enemy. Why is it so hard to believe that the North would use Stannis to get what they want and then be rid of him when Stannis is trying to do the same thing?

[Antler's Fury]

The North Remembers. If Stannis truly cared about the North and wasn't simply using the North as a means to an end he would have helped them when they had a common enemy. Why is it so hard to believe that the North would use Stannis to get what they want and then be rid of him when Stannis is trying to do the same thing?

Because he is not. He is helping them against multiple common enemies, like the Wildlings, Boltons, Freys, Ironborn, and most important of all: the Others. He isn't trying to be rid of them, either. He wants a Stark back in Winterfell to rule as Lord Paramount and Warden of the North, just like Ned, Rickard, and every Stark since Torrhen. Yes, he wants the throne, and wants the Northerners help in this regard, and why not? A unified realm means peace and prosperity for everyone, including the North, as well as unified military strength against the Others. He wants the Starks in their rightful position of power, and the North cleansed of invaders and traitors. How is this at all similar to what the Northerners are supposed to be doing in the GNC, which is shamelessly backstab Stannis after he helps them kick out the Ironborn, Freys, and Boltons?

[aceluby]

Because he is not. He is helping them against multiple common enemies, like the Wildlings, Boltons, Freys, Ironborn, and most important of all: the Others. He isn't trying to be rid of them, either. He wants a Stark back in Winterfell to rule as Lord Paramount and Warden of the North, just like Ned, Rickard, and every Stark since Torrhen. Yes, he wants the throne, and wants the Northerners help in this regard, and why not? A unified realm means peace and prosperity for everyone, including the North, as well as unified military strength against the Others. He wants the Starks in their rightful position of power, and the North cleansed of invaders and traitors. How is this at all similar to what the Northerners are supposed to be doing in the GNC, which is shamelessly backstab Stannis after he helps them kick out the Ironborn, Freys, and Boltons?

The North Remembers.

The good does not wipe out the bad.

His expectation is that the North will help him win the throne and then they will go home and be ruled by him from miles and miles south. He's not trying to kill people in the North, but he is using them as a means to an end and basically discarding them. He could obviously prevent this by promoting the Lords to help rule his kingdom once he has the throne (CR, Highgarden, Dorne, Vale, Riverlands, etc...)

I just don't see how it's out of the realm of possibility that the North would do the same once the North has been stabilized with the info we currently have. Stannis hasn't done anything to prevent it.

[Antler's Fury]

His expectation is that the North will help him win the throne and then they will go home and be ruled by him from miles and miles south.

How is this an unrealistic expectation? Robert ruled them from miles and miles in the south, and they did not have a problem with it. They didn't have a problem with Aerys, or any of his predecessors. So why would they have a problem with Stannis ruling them from KL, considering that Stannis has given them more help than Aerys, Robert, Aegon I, or even Jaehaerys I?

He's not trying to kill people in the North, but he is using them as a means to an end and basically discarding them.

How? He's winning back their castles and giving them back to their rightful rulers, so that the North can rule itself the way it has done since Aegon I. What would constitute not discarding them, then?

He could obviously prevent this by promoting the Lords to help rule his kingdom once he has the throne (CR, Highgarden, Dorne, Vale, Riverlands, etc...)

How do we know that Stannis isn't going to do this should he go South? Why would his not doing this be a problem, considering that no King on the Iron Throne has ever given Northern Lords Southern holdings? And how do we know that the Northerners even want them?

I just don't see how it's out of the realm of possibility that the North would do the same once the North has been stabilized with the info we currently have. Stannis hasn't done anything to prevent it.

He's saved them from Wildlings, and Ironborn, and is trying to save them from Boltons, Freys, and Others. If this does not make them loyal to him, what would? And how, and why would a war torn, exhausted North, in winter, awaiting the Others, resist the one man trying to help them fight?

The North Remembers.

...that Stannis saved its ass.

The good does not wipe out the bad.

What "bad" has Stannis ever done to the Northerners?

[sertravisredbeard]

Davos might be the one that has to kill Stannis after he becomes the Night's King.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

This is what I really don't get about GNC. The Northern lords want the Starks back in Winterfell. So does Stannis. The only cause for conflict is the possibility that the Northerners want the Starks to be Kings, while Stannis wants them as Lords and Wardens. Why fight against Stannis when he's simply fighting to restore the North to its pre-war status?

Because the North is not going back to being under the thumb of the Iron Throne. You can't say, "Well other than ..." when that is the primary motivation.

[Clariana]

Please excuse me but I'm somewhat in my cups.

Davos adopts Rickon as a son, Stannis is breaking bad, Davos feels compelled to kill him, Rickon weds Shireen, Davos becomes the hand of the King in the North.

[Newstar]

Please excuse me but I'm somewhat in my cups.

Davos adopts Rickon as a son, Stannis is breaking bad, Davos feels compelled to kill him, Rickon weds Shireen, Davos becomes the hand of the King in the North.

I'm baffled by the popular Rickon/Shireen pairing speculation. If Val, an otherwise sane and sensible character, flipping out and shrieking about Shireen being a "dead girl" wasn't an extremely obvious tipoff that Shireen is going to die, I don't know what is. That's Theon dreaming about a banquet of dead people and Robb and Grey Wind showing up bleeding from a hundred wounds-level foreshadowing.

With that said, I do like the idea of Davos adopting a paternal attitude towards Rickon...

Especially since that tidbit in one of the Arianne chapters about sellswords attacking Cape Wrath left me really apprehensive about Davos' living family

[Antler's Fury]

Because the North is not going back to being under the thumb of the Iron Throne. You can't say, "Well other than ..." when that is the primary motivation.

Is it? If the Northerners don't want to accept being under the Iron Throne, they've been remarkably passive. Between the Red Wedding and Stannis' arrival, the Northerners seem listless and purposeless. We never hear of them even fighting to liberate areas from Ironborn occupation, let alone fight the Boltons. It's Stannis' arrival that motivates them to act. Moreover, these are supposedly honorable Northerners, we are talking about, not scheming, manipulative Southroners; backstabbing Stannis after he's saved their collective asses from multiple threats is not only a decidedly un-Northern thing to do, especially with the memory of the Bolton backstabbing fresh in their minds, its also hypocritical to fight in Ned's name while doing things Ned would definitely disapprove of.

Even if the Northerners wanted independence, is this really the time for it? Their armies are slaughtered, winter has arrived, and the Others are coming. If they backstab Stannis after the Ironborn, Boltons, and Freys have been removed, they are still very weak, and now have to deal with Stannis' wrath bringing war back to the North and undoing everything they have rebuilt when the Others arrive. And they also need his dragonglass to fight the Others, meaning they need someone in the South who cares about them, and Stannis is the only one who does. If the Northerners care more about a crown and the ability to mint currency over existential threats, they deserve to get annihilated by the Others.