is the Iron Throne the heir of Valyrian Empire

[geogus]

Many times, when a Nation is destroyed or turns in another one its picked one to be considered is sucessor

Russia succeds URSS, Serbia Yugoslavia, Italy the Roman Empire and so far....

In case of the Valyrian empire, the iron Throne can be considered its "legal" sucessor.

The IT was created by Targaryens, members of the Valyrian aristocracy,

Today, Tommen Baratheon, which supposadelly has Targaryen blood holds it.

Nobody denies that the Targaryens have the blood of old Valyria, and that they are the rightful owners of te IT.

So is the Iron thone of Westeros the sucessor of the Valyrian Empire.

Could the westeros king push a de jure a claim over Valyrian terrirotoires

[Viserys - The last dragon]

Even though I study law I have no idea how this would work.

[franbatista123]

If the Targaryens had a de jure claim over former Valyrian territories they lost it a long time ago. Moreover, the rest of Westeros wouldn't give a damn about that as they already have too much problems of their own.

[Fightbringer]

Well if they wanted to conquer essos they could have come up with countless other reasons to do it. Perhaps the Targaryens,especially in the earlier part of their time in power, could have tried to reconquer the old valyrian empire as the last great house of it remaining, i mean aegon the conqueror had some support for doing this before he went west instead.

Wouldnt consider the Seven Kingdoms the successor to old valyria though, especially as its people were never part of the valyrian empire (aside from a few insignificant islands in the narrow sea)

[Consigliere]

In case of the Valyrian empire, the iron Throne can be considered its "legal" sucessor.

The IT was created by Targaryens, members of the Valyrian aristocracy,

Valyria, as far as we know, was never a monarchy. Instead, 40 rival houses contested for power and the Targaryens were not considered a powerful house.

Today, Tommen Baratheon, which supposadelly has Targaryen blood holds it.

Nobody denies that the Targaryens have the blood of old Valyria, and that they are the rightful owners of te IT.

Many people deny it. Tommen's claim derives from being a Baratheon and not from supposedly having a drop of Targaryen blood.

So is the Iron thone of Westeros the sucessor of the Valyrian Empire.

Could the westeros king push a de jure a claim over Valyrian terrirotoires

I'm going to say, no. The IT has no dominion over the remnants of the former Valyrian empire.

[Tommen Beetsbane]

Many people deny it. Tommen's claim derives from being a Baratheon and not from supposedly having a drop of Targaryen blood.

actually, the reason big bob became king instead of ned or jon because his grandmom or his great-grandma was a targ. there were other families like this yeah but none of them started a rebellion and won

[RoamingRonin]

It's a not a continuation of the Valyrian empire, no. But if there was a history book on the subject, after the Doom the Valyrian story would continue with the Targaryen conquest.

It's one of the reasons why I enjoy the Valyrians and Targaryens. Despite the Doom, their descendants are still around and in positions of power.

[Consigliere]

actually, the reason big bob became king instead of ned or jon because his grandmom or his great-grandma was a targ. there were other families like this yeah but none of them started a rebellion and won

That's still a matter of debate. It's also possible that Robert was chosen to be king because he was the face of the rebellion. Robert says to Ned - You were the one should have been king, you or Jon, implying that Ned and Jon Arryn also had a claim. The point is, Tommen is king because he is believed to be a Baratheon and has nothing to do with having Targaryen blood.

[LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse]

I don´t think international law in the world of Ice and Fire has developed principles like uti possidetis juris.

Even if it did, Volantis claimed to be the "succesor state" of old Valyria, and tried to subjugate the rest of the Free cities in order to reestablish the Valyrian "empire", under her control.

ETA: Volantis does seem like a political continuation from Valyria. It is also a Freehold. Only nobles who can trace their lines back to Old Valyria can be elected as Triarchs.

[Lord of Tree Tower]

Many times, when a Nation is destroyed or turns in another one its picked one to be considered is sucessor

Russia succeds URSS, Serbia Yugoslavia, Italy the Roman Empire and so far....

In case of the Valyrian empire, the iron Throne can be considered its "legal" sucessor.

The IT was created by Targaryens, members of the Valyrian aristocracy,

Today, Tommen Baratheon, which supposadelly has Targaryen blood holds it.

Nobody denies that the Targaryens have the blood of old Valyria, and that they are the rightful owners of te IT.

So is the Iron thone of Westeros the sucessor of the Valyrian Empire.

Could the westeros king push a de jure a claim over Valyrian terrirotoires

No because culturally Westeros retains its basic identity from before it was conquered by Aegon. Russia for example has been molded culturally by having been the lead in the USSR, conversley the orginal Targ's conformed to a different culture essentially leaving behind valaryian

[Tommen Beetsbane]

That's still a matter of debate. It's also possible that Robert was chosen to be king because he was the face of the rebellion. Robert says to Ned - You were the one should have been king, you or Jon, implying that Ned and Jon Arryn also had a claim. The point is, Tommen is king because he is believed to be a Baratheon and has nothing to do with having Targaryen blood.

actually my friend the quote after that is ned saying robert has the better claim. can't find the quote sorry but its the next line. and it does kinda have something to do with it. if Ned had a better claim the honorable,only about family and duty Stark would've taken the throne from his friend because it's his duty. If ned took the throne then rob wouldn't have been king, and tommen wouldn't have been born. so yeah it has something to do with it. Its not like people call him "king tommen targaryen" but his alleged targaryen blood put him there in the first place

[The Merry Other]

No. It's like saying the English Throne was the heir of the Roman Empire

[Usrnmhsnomning]

Three or four nations, chiefly the HRE, Byzantine, and the Ottoman Empire, considered themselves successor to Rome, but I don't think I've heard anyone claim Italy, a relatively young country that was formed over 900 years after Rome fell, is a successor to the Roman Empire. Even the Vatican, i.e Rome itself, isn't considered that. Nitpicky, but there you go.

There is no successor to the Valyrian Freehold IMO. The Iron Throne is different in leadership, preumably government, culture and religion, ethnicity, and completely different territory bar Dragonstone.

ETA: A couple of Italian nationalists around the time of unification (and during WWII) made reference to Italy becoming a 'third Rome', but made no claims of being a successor to the Roman, Holy Roman, or Byzantium Empires.

[Arthur Lannister]

When the doom destroyed Valyria and the colonies started revolting, the domain of the Targaryens became the last remnants of the Freehold of Valyria, for the Targaryens are the last of the dragonlords which ruled the Freehold before the doom. Thus we could say that the Freehold of Valyria and the Seven Kingdoms is the same country in the same manner as the Roman Empire and the Byzantine Empire is the same country.

[grand old duke of stark]

Three or four nations, chiefly the HRE, Byzantine, and the Ottoman Empire, considered themselves successor to Rome, but I don't think I've heard anyone claim Italy, a relatively young country that was formed over 900 years after Rome fell, is a successor to the Roman Empire. Even the Vatican, i.e Rome itself, isn't considered that. Nitpicky, but there you go.

There is no successor to the Valyrian Freehold IMO. The Iron Throne is different in leadership, preumably government, culture and religion, ethnicity, and completely different territory bar Dragonstone.

Agree fully. Also, there is the parallel with Saxon England and William of Normandy. When William conquered King Harold, he gained England but remained ruler of Normandy and a few other French parcels. But within five centuries though his descendants claimed France or parts of FRance, they didn't live in France or even speak French. Effectively, they were shorn of most of their French possessions. The Targs fully invested themselves in Westeros, having even less foothold in Essos, so I don't think any claim would stand.

[Ludd]

The historical parallel on which the Targs are based is the "Holy Roman Emprire" which supposedly drew descent from roman emperors, to the French King Charlemagne, whose descendents in the shape of the Normans Plantagnets (aka the Targs) took over England.

However the we can probably put on hod the idea of the Targs taking over the valyrian empire at least until an alliance of England and France takes over Italy and the middle east.

Hmmm!!! The EU?????????

[Usrnmhsnomning]

Thus we could say that the Freehold of Valyria and the Seven Kingdoms is the same country in the same manner as the Roman Empire and the Byzantine Empire is the same country.

That's wrong, first and foremost because the Seven Kingdoms was never subject or held by the Valyrian Freehold prior to the Doom, whereas the Byzantine Empire was actually one half of the the Roman Empire before the western Empire fell. Secondly, the Targaryens conquering land in their own name with no association made to the Valyrian Freehold as an institution over a decade after the Freehold has been destroyed can't be considered a continuation of the Freehold.

[Rheagar Prime]

i don't think so since they are a monarch and the freehold was more of a republic.

[franko99]

No because culturally Westeros retains its basic identity from before it was conquered by Aegon. Russia for example has been molded culturally by having been the lead in the USSR, conversley the orginal Targ's conformed to a different culture essentially leaving behind valaryian

I just came to this thread to write this, the Iron Throne can't be considered the heir or Valyria since they don't share a culture, they pretty much remain Andals and First Mens. Volantis is Valyria's continuation, only without dragons

It's a not a continuation of the Valyrian empire, no. But if there was a history book on the subject, after the Doom the Valyrian story would continue with the Targaryen conquest.

It's one of the reasons why I enjoy the Valyrians and Targaryens. Despite the Doom, their descendants are still around and in positions of power.

Well, we can say exactly the same about the Andals and First Mens, despite the conquest they remain in power over their region, and in the case of Stark and Arryn, they have been in power before the Freehold even existed

[Consigliere]

actually my friend the quote after that is ned saying robert has the better claim. can't find the quote sorry but its the next line. and it does kinda have something to do with it. if Ned had a better claim the honorable,only about family and duty Stark would've taken the throne from his friend because it's his duty. If ned took the throne then rob wouldn't have been king, and tommen wouldn't have been born. so yeah it has something to do with it. Its not like people call him "king tommen targaryen" but his alleged targaryen blood put him there in the first place

As I said before, it is not a matter of fact that Robert was made king because of his Targaryen blood. 'Better claim' could also mean that he was the face of the rebellion. Killing Rhaegar also helped. One could also argue that Ned did not want the throne and Jon was an old man who had extreme difficulty fathering an heir so Robert was the best option. The way I see it is Robert having Targaryen blood was incidental and not instrumental in him being named king.