[BOOK SPOILERS] Watching the show if it overpasses the books [Part 2]

[Moondancer]

For GRRM to write a Season 6 episode, it would have to be in by June 2015. So GRRM still thinks there's a chance he can get the book out and published before then. On the other hand, GRRM has a remarkably poor track record of adhering to his predicted completion dates, so I dunno how much stock we can place in this.

I am stupid, I know, but my hopes soared a bit when I read this.

He also said he might visit the set early next year. Why? The production (S5) will be over by then.

[lakin1013]

Interview with Maisie Williams, July 29, 2014:

TVLINE | Do you know what’s coming next, at least for Arya?
I don’t know, honestly. We’re starting to catch up with what’s been written, so I’d love to do something completely new. Again, I’d love to keep making the book readers go, “Wait, is that what’s going to come in the next book? Did they make that up completely?” I love it when we do something really dramatic and shock everyone. They should throw in more stuff that no one knows about.

http://tvline.com/2014/07/29/game-of-thrones-season-5-arya-lady-stoneheart/

[Balerion06]

Why are people so averse to the books and show having a different ending?

Considering all the changes, omissions and shortcuts D&D have gone for in telling this story, it would probably be in their best interest to actually diverge from the books as they get further and further along. They only have 30 episodes left to tell four books' worth of story, three of said books being as long as Storm that took them two seasons to adapt. It's inevitable that they're going to start gutting things, even something that may be essential to the books. There's nothing wrong in diverging: they're still going to explore similar ideas, concepts and themes.

Just look at the Dorne storyline. Already rumours are circulating that Quentyn, Arianne and Aegon may all be amalgamated into the character of Trystane Martell. If that happens, it would be absurd to start contorting this TV plot to reach the same outcome as the books.

Then you have the differences between the two mediums. For example, if Tyrion either dies or goes down an incredibly morally reprehensible path in Winds of Winter, that's never going to make it on screen due to the popularity of Peter Dinklage's portrayal of the character.

Many adaptations have opted to go for a different ending than the books that they're based on. I don't know why people are so adamant that it won't (or shouldn't) happen in this case.

[Faint]

Many adaptations have opted to go for a different ending than the books that they're based on. I don't know why people are so adamant that it won't (or shouldn't) happen in this case.

I will let others address the reasons the adaptation should not have a different ending, although they are obvious enough, but the reason we know it will not have a different ending is because we have already been told as much by Benioff and Weiss.

[Balerion06]

I will let others address the reasons the adaptation should not have a different ending, although they are obvious enough, but the reason we know it will not have a different ending is because we have already been told as much by Benioff and Weiss.

D&D will never admit they're diverging when no one knows what's going to happen in the last two books: that's a double edged sword that'll either increase viewership for curiosity's sake or decrease it because it isn't being "faithful".

[Real Heir of Bear Island]

I'd say it would have to depend. If the final book is almost done and will be out a year after I may wait. If the final book is nowhere in sight than I'll just watch the show's ending.

[Faint]

D&D will never admit they're diverging when no one knows what's going to happen in the last two books: that's a double edged sword that'll either increase viewership for curiosity's sake or decrease it because it isn't being "faithful".

That is not even close to being true. They readily admit that they diverge, and that the cumulative effects compound with every season, but they have remained steadfast in stating that they will stick with the ending that Martin has spent three decades building towards.

[Balerion06]

That is not even close to being true. They readily admit that they diverge, and that the cumulative effects compound with every season, but they have remained steadfast in stating that they will stick with the ending that Martin has spent three decades building towards.

My point is that when there are going to be no books to compare to the direction the show is heading in, what incentive do they have to admit they're changing things? There's no advantage to admit you're changing the plot as you head to the finale, but there's no risk to changing it because by the time the fanabse discovers that you have done so it won't matter anymore.

One also has to question whether the ending of the books even makes sense for the show. Plot details are going to be moved, changed, condensed and combined in order to produce the last 30 episodes. By the time they get to the finale, Martin's endgame might not even work for them except in incredibly broad strokes.

[Faint]

My point is that when there are going to be no books to compare to the direction the show is heading in, what incentive do they have to admit they're changing things?

What incentive do they have to change the ending in the first place? Especially when they have gone on about how much they like it.

As to whether the ending makes sense for the show, one would expect so given that the material they are adapting from is geared towards that ending. Moreover, they are the ones in a much better position to determine whether the changes they have made are of any consequence to the conclusion of the story.

One might assume that the elimination of Aegon and Arianne will have a massive impact on the closing stages of the series, but it might very well turn out they are relatively irrelevant. Just one more domino in a line for Daenerys.

I think it somewhat presumptuous to think we are the ones in the know about the subject.

[Balerion06]

What incentive do they have to change the ending in the first place? Especially when they have gone on about how much they like it.

As to whether the ending makes sense for the show, one would expect so given that the material they are adapting from is geared towards that ending. Moreover, they are the ones in a much better position to determine whether the changes they have made are of any consequence to the conclusion of the story.

One might assume that the elimination of Aegon and Arianne will have a massive impact on the closing stages of the series, but it might very well turn out they are relatively irrelevant. Just one more domino in a line for Daenerys.

I think it somewhat presumptuous to think we are the ones in the know about the subject.

What incentive did they have for the Talisa-Jeyne swap? They did it because they thought it would fit the TV format better.

For example, if Tyrion dies but Jaime lives in the finale, they could very well swap that around simply because Tyrion has become de facto main character in the show.

And they're never going to say they didn't like the ending or thought elements of it were unsatisfying and now they're going to shake things up. There's no point when they get to the ending first.

It's not even a matter of building up towards it. The show seems reluctant to focus on the magical aspects and instead devotes itself to the political side of the story, while it hasn't even foreshadowed things like R+L=J. They've actually left themselves quite a bit of room to do things differently.

I'm not saying they're DEFINITELY going to diverge. But I find it difficult to understand why people seem so averse to the idea that they might, and that diverging from the source material is a viable option.

[FreeParking]

What incentive did they have for the Talisa-Jeyne swap? They did it because they thought it would fit the TV format better.

For example, if Tyrion dies but Jaime lives in the finale, they could very well swap that around simply because Tyrion has become de facto main character in the show.

And they're never going to say they didn't like the ending or thought elements of it were unsatisfying and now they're going to shake things up. There's no point when they get to the ending first.

It's not even a matter of building up towards it. The show seems reluctant to focus on the magical aspects and instead devotes itself to the political side of the story, while it hasn't even foreshadowed things like R+L=J. They've actually left themselves quite a bit of room to do things differently.

I'm not saying they're DEFINITELY going to diverge. But I find it difficult to understand why people seem so averse to the idea that they might, and that diverging from the source material is a viable option.

They have most definitely hinted at R+L=J several times. One of the biggest was this very season.

[sj4iy]

What incentive did they have for the Talisa-Jeyne swap? They did it because they thought it would fit the TV format better.

For example, if Tyrion dies but Jaime lives in the finale, they could very well swap that around simply because Tyrion has become de facto main character in the show.

And they're never going to say they didn't like the ending or thought elements of it were unsatisfying and now they're going to shake things up. There's no point when they get to the ending first.

It's not even a matter of building up towards it. The show seems reluctant to focus on the magical aspects and instead devotes itself to the political side of the story, while it hasn't even foreshadowed things like R+L=J. They've actually left themselves quite a bit of room to do things differently.

I'm not saying they're DEFINITELY going to diverge. But I find it difficult to understand why people seem so averse to the idea that they might, and that diverging from the source material is a viable option.

R+L=J has been hinted.

Ned telling Jon he didn't have his name, but he had his blood.

Blue flower stained glassed in the throne room in the House of the Undying.

Snow on the throne in the House of the Undying.

Tormund saying that Jon could never be a kneeler again.

Oberyn mentioning Rhaegar running off with another woman and leaving Elia and her children.

There's too much built up around who Jon is to change something that integral to the plot, even in the show.

[Faint]

What incentive did they have for the Talisa-Jeyne swap? They did it because they thought it would fit the TV format better.

For example, if Tyrion dies but Jaime lives in the finale, they could very well swap that around simply because Tyrion has become de facto main character in the show.

You are equating minor characters with principle characters, which is not much of a relevant comparison. When the scope is narrowed to the characters that really matter, their stories from the book are essentially the same on the show. We have little to no evidence to suggest that this will not continue to be the case.

I mean, if this is a question of what Benioff and Weiss could do . . . well, yes, they could just about do anything. They could have Tyrion drop dead in the very next episode. The same applies to the ending of the series. Could they change it from the one in the books? Yes. Is that likely? Of course not. Are there any reasons to do it? No. Are there any indications they want to? Not at all.

[Moondancer]

Interview with Maisie Williams, July 29, 2014:

TVLINE | Do you know whats coming next, at least for Arya?

I dont know, honestly. Were starting to catch up with whats been written, so Id love to do something completely new. Again, Id love to keep making the book readers go, Wait, is that whats going to come in the next book? Did they make that up completely? I love it when we do something really dramatic and shock everyone. They should throw in more stuff that no one knows about.

http://tvline.com/2014/07/29/game-of-thrones-season-5-arya-lady-stoneheart/

No, Maisie. You're heading for Braavos. :) We know.

:lol:

[JagLover]

One might assume that the elimination of Aegon and Arianne will have a massive impact on the closing stages of the series, but it might very well turn out they are relatively irrelevant. Just one more domino in a line for Daenerys.

I think it somewhat presumptuous to think we are the ones in the know about the subject.

Just a loop in the story imo.

It wouldn't surprise me if in the final book it is if they had never been.

[The One And Only]

I see no reason for the show to have a vastly different ending then the books. I do see reasons for the plots to change in the middle to get to the same end points.

When the show eventually passes the books (and it will happen), does this make the show canon and the books fan fiction?

[sj4iy]

I see no reason for the show to have a vastly different ending then the books. I do see reasons for the plots to change in the middle to get to the same end points.

When the show eventually passes the books (and it will happen), does this make the show canon and the books fan fiction?

I'll make sure to get outraged at everything Martin changes XD

[The One And Only]

I'll make sure to get outraged at everything Martin changes XD

Absolutely. It isn't better unless it came first!

Hopefully GRRM doesn't deviate from the ending of the show and make things different. Nobody wants that.

[FalseKnight]

Absolutely. It isn't better unless it came first!

Hopefully GRRM doesn't deviate from the ending of the show and make things different. Nobody wants that.

I'll never know because I refuse to read novelizations of TV shows.

[FreeParking]

I can't wait until the moment when a show watcher says to someone who refuses to watch GoT that they should just watch the TV show; its been out for months! Ha!