News on Dunk&Egg

[P. frontalis chiripepe]

The show creators can't stretch out ADWD and AFFC too long. Not enough happens in the books that translates well over to the show, I mean you can't have Brienne traveling around for two seasons. Plus characters like Theon and Bran are or are getting close to having their ADWD storylines on the show.

Plus Arya kind of had her TWOW chapter portrayed on the past episode

The show will start to hit on TWOW storylines next season in my opinion. There is also the issue of the show only running for seven, possibly eight seasons. The creators will need as much time as possible to properly wrap up the story.

Edit: I (and the mods I believe) don't want this thread to turn into another discussion of whether or not the show will surpass the books so we should probably just leave it at that

This with the possible exception of Daemon Targaryan (though he's certainly not a good person like Baelor) or Bloodraven if he counts.

True, and I suppose even if the books aren't done, I think they are pretty well outlined, so they can still finish the show on GRRM's notes and ideas. As for the Targaryens, I think Aemon deserves a note as one of the best, as well. ;)

[Jack's Smirking Revenge]

You never know :P perhaps Dunk goes undercover as a Stark widow :cool4:

Breakspear was better than Bloodraven.

His policy on how to deal with the supporters of the Black Dragon would have neutralized the Blackfyre's appeal and softened the resolve of their followers. Instead of growing into the cancer that has been plagueing Westeros for so long he might have worked towards reconcilliation. Sadly BR policy was chosen and the Blackfyre conflict never truly got resolved.

And he's certainly better than Daemon. The man had a penchant for making enemies and he did not really care for the common people as far as we see in tPatQ. Baelor would have been a better King for all.

Well if we are talking about who would make a good king I think it's pretty obvious that Baelor is a better candidate. But in terms of characters I like Bloodraven much better (I'll wait to read Rogues before passing judgment on Daemon).

I'm not sure what you mean about Baelor's policy of dealing with Blackfyre supporters. It seemed like Bloodraven dealt with the issue pretty efficiently by keeping Daemon alive to prevent Bittersteel from crowning someone else. If you mean how Baelor initially advocated a softer approach in the initial Blackfyre rebellion, well, it's possible that they could have avoided war.

[Veltigar]

Well if we are talking about who would make a good king I think it's pretty obvious that Baelor is a better candidate. But in terms of characters I like Bloodraven much better (I'll wait to read Rogues before passing judgment on Daemon).

I'm not sure what you mean about Baelor's policy of dealing with Blackfyre supporters. It seemed like Bloodraven dealt with the issue pretty efficiently by keeping Daemon alive to prevent Bittersteel from crowning someone else. If you mean how Baelor initially advocated a softer approach in the initial Blackfyre rebellion, well, it's possible that they could have avoided war.

At the end of the first Blackfyre Rebellion, the victorious Targaryens needed to take a stance on how to treat the large amount of Lords that supported Daemon Blackfyre. Daeron II got to choose from two alternatives. One advocated by BR was that the Blackfyre supporters should be treated harshly. He wanted to see them heavily punished (as a good example see tSS and how the Osgrey family got punished). An other alternative was offered by Baelor. He wanted to be leniant and show of the Targaryens benevolence.

Sadly, Daeron II was persuaded by BR and the repression of Blackfyre supporters was harsh. This created a lot of revanchist feelings from this group, and is the reason why the Blackfyres were such a threat for all those years, because their supportbasis was always ready to rise a new (even today the GC still has friends in the Reach). If Baelor policy had been enforced they could have quelled these revanchist feelings. And instead of creating an open wound that still festers to this day, the Realm would have made a large step towards healing.

[mb2518]

If the anthology with the first three D&E stories is coming in 2015, that means TWOW is coming in 2016 at the earliest.

[Night's_King]

If the anthology with the first three D&E stories is coming in 2015, that means TWOW is coming in 2016 at the earliest.

I don't see that.

[LordStoneheart]

The show creators can't stretch out ADWD and AFFC too long. Not enough happens in the books that translates well over to the show, I mean you can't have Brienne traveling around for two seasons. Plus characters like Theon and Bran are or are getting close to having their ADWD storylines on the show.

Plus Arya kind of had her TWOW chapter portrayed on the past episode

The show will start to hit on TWOW storylines next season in my opinion. There is also the issue of the show only running for seven, possibly eight seasons. The creators will need as much time as possible to properly wrap up the story.

Actually in the last interview about the subject, I feel like he totally suggested the exact opposite of that, something about between feast and dance there's two season of material.

[mindchap]

It's nice that they are getting a revamp so that more people have better access to them but I think I'll save my excitement for when he starts talking release dates for the next new one.

[JLE]

Yeah. I think Maekar is actually somewhat underestimated as a ruler. He was unpopular and harsh, but not cruel, and he was an *effective* ruler at least, who kept the kingdom at peace without actually being a tyrant. Stannis sounds very similar, which is why I think he is the ruler the Kingdoms need, even if not what they want.

Let's not forget the worst quotes about Stannis, *before* he has done anything for anyone to reproach him for, other than apparently have a peevish and unlikeable manner.

The one who says that "nothing is more terrifying than a truly just man"? Varys. Who has more to fear from real justice, than him if word of his dealings gets out. Littlefinger fears Stannis for the same reason.

The one who says "the kingdom will bleed if Stannis is made king"? Renly - the one who would *make* the kingdom bleed, by rebelling against his brother.

I believe Renly is also the one who slanders Stannis by claiming that he has not forgiven and will never forgive houses such as Tyrell and Martell, for supporting the Targaryens, or Greyjoy for their rebellion. Well, let's look at Stannis's OWN word on the matter: he recognises that good and honest men will fight and die for Joffrey believing him to be the true king, and a northman might even do the same for Robb Stark (recognising that there might be some right to their claims). The same argument, obviously, applies to Houses Tyrell and Martell. Against these people Stannis holds no *professional* grudge. He does not have to like them, and probably makes his dislike clear, but he has no reason to regard them as traitors, especially given - as we see from his own statement - that the decision even to join his brother's rebellion was a hard one. He reserves his especial contempt not for Joffrey or Robb's men, but for the people (even the ones who have subsequently joined him) who rode with Renly, because they knew Renly for a rebel from the start, and a rebel without a cause too.

(In fact I suspect Renly, as a master of personal gossip and diplomacy, has been badmouthing and slandering Stannis for some time now, while buttering himself up to the Tyrells. He may even believe his own slanders by now, but this does not make them actually true. Note that everything we hear from Ned's point of view in AGoT only serves to reinforce Ned's own position, that Stannis - despite his manners - is a man that Ned DOES want to talk with, and perhaps even might be an ally of - even before he is certain of the royal children's bastardy.)

As for Greyjoy - I guess Balon Greyjoy proved that he was one who should NOT have been forgiven: again, Robert forgave him, he rose in rebellion again, there would be no second forgiveness from Stannis. But then, there would have been no second forgiveness from Robert either.

[Leonardo]

As it stated at the beginning of his Not a Blog post, he isnt working on these until after Winds. Getting ideas in your head doesnot mean working on that material.

OT:

:D is basically me right now. Dunk and Egg is great. I too amvdisappointed the She Wolves wont be the actual title, but I suppose the titlesbare all supposed to refer to Dunk. Ibwould hardly call him a She Wolf :lol: The riverlands sounds good to me, heres hoping the village is Pennytree :P

Needless to say, i will be buying Knight of the Seven Kingdoms when it is released

Pennytree is in the Riverlands, and if they cross lower instead of coming up the right side to go North, then they will pass by it and Riverrun instead of The Twins. Taking a ship seems more likely than going up the neck, and they'd go this way if they were heading to Seagard or if there is an alternate route North.

[Jack's Smirking Revenge]

At the end of the first Blackfyre Rebellion, the victorious Targaryens needed to take a stance on how to treat the large amount of Lords that supported Daemon Blackfyre. Daeron II got to choose from two alternatives. One advocated by BR was that the Blackfyre supporters should be treated harshly. He wanted to see them heavily punished (as a good example see tSS and how the Osgrey family got punished). An other alternative was offered by Baelor. He wanted to be leniant and show of the Targaryens benevolence.

Sadly, Daeron II was persuaded by BR and the repression of Blackfyre supporters was harsh. This created a lot of revanchist feelings from this group, and is the reason why the Blackfyres were such a threat for all those years, because their supportbasis was always ready to rise a new (even today the GC still has friends in the Reach). If Baelor policy had been enforced they could have quelled these revanchist feelings. And instead of creating an open wound that still festers to this day, the Realm would have made a large step towards healing.

There is no guarantee that the Blackfyre supporters would have all been quelled (look at Balon Greyjoy). There were issues with that led to the second Blackfyre rebellion that didn't just involve the harsh measures taken against supporters (and really considering how costly the rebellion was the fact that so many supporters were allowed to live or keep holdings and only having to give up a hostage, I think many got of relatively easy). It also had to do with the drought, great spring sickness, Baelor's death and the death of his sons, etc. Also BR's policy in the Second Blackfyre rebellion ensured there wouldn't be another rebellion.

Actually in the last interview about the subject, I feel like he totally suggested the exact opposite of that, something about between feast and dance there's two season of material.

There was actually another, more recent interview, in which Martin conceded it was plausible. Also realistically speaking some of Dance and Crows have and will be covered this season, you can't possibly fit TWOW and ADOS in two books IMO.

It's nice that they are getting a revamp so that more people have better access to them but I think I'll save my excitement for when he starts talking release dates for the next new one.

I am excited they will be released together and with tons of artwork. That will be awesome IMO.

[Night's_King]

Pennytree is in the Riverlands, and if they cross lower instead of coming up the right side to go North, then they will pass by it and Riverrun instead of The Twins. Taking a ship seems more likely than going up the neck, and they'd go this way if they were heading to Seagard or if there is an alternate route North.

It's not about going north. The she wolves will be in the north, yes. But the other story will take place in the riverlands.

[Don Roberto]

Curiously enough, the first three novellas were published in a book earlier this year in Brazil.

Wonder why it hasn't yet in english. Maybe George wants to hold on to it a bit more so he'll have stuff to publish between TWOIAF and TWOW?

[TaenaOfMyr]

Actually in the last interview about the subject, I feel like he totally suggested the exact opposite of that, something about between feast and dance there's two season of material.

GRRM's opinions don't matter when it comes to this though. Its all about HBO and D&D. They make the call, not him. There is not 2 seasons of filmable material between those 2 books, particularly when they are already moving into Bran, Dany and Theon's storylines at the very least this season.

[Night's_King]

Curiously enough, the first three novellas were published in a book earlier this year in Brazil.

Wonder why it hasn't yet in english. Maybe George wants to hold on to it a bit more so he'll have stuff to publish between TWOIAF and TWOW?

Same here in Germany. But most of the anthologies aren't available in German language. Guess that's the point why we have the stories in one book.

[Yin]

They won't be coming out before Winds.

GRRM hopes that it will be published in 2015 and it will have artwork in it.

Wait, what? Does this mean Winds'll come out before 2015?

[Night's_King]

No! The new stories won't be coming out before winds.

The book which will contain the three old ones will come out in 2015

[Yin]

No! The new stories won't be coming out before winds.

The book which will contain the three old ones will come out in 2015

Ah. Misread and didn't see the part about the first three novellas.

Would it kill George to give us a clearer update though? I know he's afraid of ticking people off again with possible delays, but even telling us how much is done so far would be nice...

[Veltigar]

There is no guarantee that the Blackfyre supporters would have all been quelled (look at Balon Greyjoy). There were issues with that led to the second Blackfyre rebellion that didn't just involve the harsh measures taken against supporters (and really considering how costly the rebellion was the fact that so many supporters were allowed to live or keep holdings and only having to give up a hostage, I think many got of relatively easy). It also had to do with the drought, great spring sickness, Baelor's death and the death of his sons, etc. Also BR's policy in the Second Blackfyre rebellion ensured there wouldn't be another rebellion.

You can't really compare the Greyjoy rebellion with the BF one. The BF was an uprising across the entire realm all wrapped around the claim of one person, who claimed to be better than the other contestant. If after his death his supporters had been treated kindly (there is no BF claimant who just had to give up a hostage. Most of them also lost a massive amount of income and land. Look at what Osgrey had to give up, and he was just a minor lordling without family to pose a real threat) they would not have transformed the BF rebellion into the cult event it has become.

The Greyjoy rebellion on the other hand was an ideological/religous conflict of an isolated group. And they wouldn't have rebelled if the hostages were kept on the main land. Theon seems to have been the only hostage left on Westeros (there was another bloke who had returned to the Isles as a follower of the Seven) and Robb made the mistake to send him to Balon. Add to that that Balon made his move only when the Kingdoms were at war against one another (if there hadn't been a conflict, Balon would not have attacked). A big reason for the lenient measures towards the BF supporters would be precisely aimed at diminishing the chance to a conflict that could burst open in all ernest.

Other factors of course played a role in the newer Blackfyre conflicts, but they could only help shape the events. While the repression of BF supporters after the first Rebellion was what made the whole Rebellion dig itself into the mindset of the BF Loyalists and is what set off all other events.

[Rill Redthorn]

So, here the News.

GRRM has appearently two D&E-Tales in his head. The She-Wolves of Winterfell and The Village Hero (both are working titles).

They won't be coming out before Winds.

The Novellas will be published in books. The plan is three novellas per book. The first three novellas will be in a book called A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms. GRRM hopes that it will be published in 2015 and it will have artwork in it.

Movies or a series is not planned but could happen in the future.

Thoughts?

Folks, I am confuzzled. Why are you saying he's not going to use the title "She Wolves of Winterfell"? Doesn't this say exactly the opposite? We're getting two new D&E tales ( :commie:), "She Wolves" and "Village Hero". What am I misreading? Is it just because these are "working titles"? That doesn't mean he won't end up using them if a better name doesn't pop into his head, you know.

First book should be Hedge Knight, Sworn Sword, Mystery Knight.

Second book should be She Wolves, Village Hero, and one other, right?

[Veltigar]

Folks, I am confuzzled. Why are you saying he's not going to use the title "She Wolves of Winterfell"? Doesn't this say exactly the opposite? We're getting two new D&E tales ( :commie:), "She Wolves" and "Village Hero". What am I misreading? Is it just because these are "working titles"? That doesn't mean he won't end up using them if a better name doesn't pop into his head, you know.

First book should be Hedge Knight, Sworn Sword, Mystery Knight.

Second book should be She Wolves, Village Hero, and one other, right?

from the article:

The unfinished novella was indeed set in Winterfell, and involved a group of formidable Stark wives, widows, mothers, and grandmothers that I dubbed 'the She-Wolves,' but "The She-Wolves of Winterfell" was never meant to be more than a working title. The final title, when I finish the story, will be something different.