Do people dislike Sansa because she's a woman?

[OldGimletEye]

As a recovering Sansa hater, speaking for only myself, I disliked Sansa mainly because I thought she was a naive elitist snob. Her gender didn't really have anything to do with it.

As I started to read more of her story, and considered her upbringing which was pretty sheltered, I started to like her more - a lot actually. Now she is one of my favorite female characters.

I think mostly Sansa hate comes from the fact she's a "passive" character. But it's that passivity that kept her alive because she not only had no more options but didn't actually know how to survive by herself.

Yeah, I think this right. Apparently, to some, Sansa should have escaped from KL with only a tooth pick, all Colonel Braddock style, then should have waged a guerilla war against Lannister forces all by herself.

[The Abominable SnowOther]

don't forget homophobe

also, a eunuch...

eta.

i dont like her, but "Feast" Sansa was baddass. those were my fav chapters besides maybe Jaime's (as dreadful as they were sometimes)

[Winter's Knight]

Sansa isn't meek. She's polite but she isn't meek, She saves Dontos, tells Joff Robb would bring her his head, refuses to kneel for Tyrion, stands up to Sandor, scales a cliff in the dead of night while fleeing her captors...

Also, I need to amend my earlier point: it isn't Sansa's lack of popularity that suggests the fandom's misogyny, ot's the vitriol with which she is hated.

[Good Guy Garlan]

Sansa isn't the only passive character though. Bran is passive through necessity-his chapters are basically Magical Exposition. Jon is passive for most of ACoK and ASoS, until hen chooses to not kill the old man.

Good point. Maybe Sansa gets more of a bad rap because people compare her to Arya...?

[Queen Sansa Stark]

I personally think that Sansa's personality is what causes people to dislike her, not sexism. She's meek and obediant because it's her natural

And yet it is her most defiance moments she mostly hated for. Sansa going to Cersei? Betrayed and killed Ned and if I recall right a lot of people wished that filthy and terrible things happened to her when this book series was fairly new. Sansa refusing to kneel for Tyrion? Bitch yada yada. I am sure you get my drift.

[OldGimletEye]

Good point. Maybe Sansa gets more of a bad rap because people compare her to Arya...?

Yep, absolutely. And its not a fair comparison. Arya is an exceptional child, almost to the point of not being believable.

I got a feeling that many in the "Sansa should have...." crowd probably haven't even been in so much as a bar brawl and haven't spend any appreciable time trying to survive in the field.

[Waylin Stark]

I always thought she was hated for being an innocent, naive girl with foolish dreams, who never really did anything and was always manipulated as part of others' plans.

I don't mind her all that much though.

[Winter's Knight]

Good point. Maybe Sansa gets more of a bad rap because people compare her to Arya...?

Sansa gets a bad rap because she's the Popular Girl, I think. The fact that she turns down Tyrion only exacerbates the superficial impression of her being shallow, vain and stuck up.

[Cold Crashing Waves]

I think a lot of people dislike Sansa because they can't let go of what she started out as: a spoiled, blind, little rich girl. She's also a huge contrast to the badass Arya.

Personaly I've liked Sansa a lot since the end of GOT.

[Good Guy Garlan]

Sansa gets a bad rap because she's the Popular Girl, I think. The fact that she turns down Tyrion only exacerbates the superficial impression of her being shallow, vain and stuck up.

Yeah, this contributes too, for sure. Especially on the show, since Tyrion is depicted way more favorably.

[Queen Sansa Stark]

Sansa gets a bad rap because she's the Popular Girl, I think. The fact that she turns down Tyrion only exacerbates the superficial impression of her being shallow, vain and stuck up.

I think this is the fundamental issue that quite some people have with Sansa and the way she was introduced and portrayed in AGOT. GRRM probably did this intentionally because he wanted that people would initially dislike Sansa to an extent and break that down as we go further into the books, but he didn't expect that she would be hated that much. No offense to grrm, but I think he was kind of naive on this. If you are going to create an traditionally feminine character who not only is pretty, but is aware of it and - even worse - takes pride in it and occasionally has no problem to display superiority over others and then of course she is going to despised like no other.

[Dany Girl]

Good point. Maybe Sansa gets more of a bad rap because people compare her to Arya...?

What's funny about that is that Sansa is a much more believable character. She fits the roll of a female in her society and uses "women's" weapons to fight, ie., her politeness.

Arya on the other hand is far less believable, a high born child on the run for 2+ years with virtually no one, manages to kill multiple adult trained martial men by sheer force and trickery, somehow ends up half a world away and is training to be an assassin.

Arya's story, no matter how bad ass, takes a lot more suspension of disbelief than Sansa's.

[Angmar]

lol at that "racist mysoginist homophobe". Didn't know we entered tumblr.

I'm not sure. Depends on whom you ask/are around in the ASOIAF fandom, certain female characters are more liked than others.

People generally dislike Cat and Sansa but love Arya, Dany, Margaery, Ygritte, Brienne and Asha. Cersei is half and half.

As for Sansa, I think people still believe she's the innocent little girl who believed in fairy tales and prince charming, and think she hasn't grown up. In comparison, she's always compared to the other women.

She's not yet as politically powerful as Margaery or Cersei. She's not the woman warriors ala Brienne or Asha. She's not even like Arya or Dany who have so much luck and plot armor throughout the series, with dragons and armies and assasins aiding them wherever they go.

Sansa, by all accounts, is by herself, and she has to take care of herself, considering she's always in bad company once Ned dies. She doesn't have dragons, or a sword, or magical abilities to protect herself.

As for being "passive", yeah, Bran is also passive and generally people just don't care for him, much like Sansa in that regard. Why, I remember this one person who said it's all Bran's fault the War of the 5 Kings took place... :lol:

As for "believable", I find Sansa much more believable and realistic to the time setting than Arya or Dany or Asha. The last three take a lot of suspension of disbelief, maybe that's why people prefer them more over the "realistic" Sansa? It's so much easier to get into fantasy with pirates and dragons and assassins than courtly manners....

[Alaynsa Starne]

^ That's pretty much what I've thought since she was fighting Amory's trained, armed men with the rest of the guys headed for the Wall. It just seemed sort of ridiculous to me.

[Cold Crashing Waves]

Why, I remember this one person who said it's all Bran's fault the War of the 5 Kings took place... :lol:

Well it was. We told that little fuck to stop climbing towers.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Sansa isn't the only passive character though. Bran is passive through necessity-his chapters are basically Magical Exposition. Jon is passive for most of ACoK and ASoS, until hen chooses to not kill the old man.

Bran isn't passive. He's on the run, headed North of the Wall and about to learn a bunch of stuff. Jon isn't either: he lefts the Wall and started to live among the wildings, while sleeping with one of them. Funny thing you mention both of them who at some point of their chapters, had to run and survive. Sansa doesn't. She's in KL, trapped, being played by everybody else in marriages or schemes. She never actually escapes and survives: she's "rescued" by Littlefinger. She had some moments of defying but none of them have actually being important in the main picture. That's what I meant to say: she hasn't actively done nothing but not because he didn't want. She couldn't. Jon can fight and Bran has Hodor and the Reeds. There is absolutely NO way Sansa could have survived if she ever tried to escape KL by herself. She would be either killed, raped or brought back at once.

[jons nissa]

I think this is the fundamental issue that quite some people have with Sansa and the way she was introduced and portrayed in AGOT. GRRM probably did this intentionally since he expected that people would initially dislike Sansa to an extent and break that down as we go further into the books, but he didn't expect that she would be hated that much. No offense to grrm, but I think he was kind of naive on this. If you are going to create an traditionally feminine character who not only is pretty, but is aware of it and - even worse - takes pride in it and occasionally has no problem to display superiority over others and then of course she is going to despised like no other. Fantasy readers are predominantly people who were not so popular in high school.

what a way to kill an otherwise wonderful post. that's a really horrible generalization you've made about readers of the an entire genre of literature just to make a point about a character you're fond of.

there have been a great many reasons for why sansa is not liked as a character so the only one i can write about is the fact that her zealous fans can sour any interests and opinions a poster on the board may have for sansa.

[Angmar]

Well it was. We told that little fuck to stop climbing towers.

And Jaime and Cersei, the two responsible adults, shouldn't be told to stop doing incest?

Huh

[Winter's Knight]

Bran isn't passive. He's on the run, headed North of the Wall and about to learn a bunch of stuff. Jon isn't either: he lefts the Wall and started to live among the wildings, while sleeping with one of them. Funny thing you mention both of them who at some point of their chapters, had to run and survive. Sansa doesn't. She's in KL, trapped, being played by everybody else in marriages or schemes. She never actually escapes and survives: she's "rescued" by Littlefinger. She had some moments of defying but none of them have actually being important in the main picture. That's what I meant to say: she hasn't actively done nothing but not because he didn't want. She couldn't. Jon can fight and Bran has Hodor and the Reeds. There is absolutely NO way Sansa could have survived if she ever tried to escape KL by herself. She would be either killed, raped or brought back at once.

That's my point though: Bran escapes because of Osha. He survives because of Meera and Jojen, Arya escapes because of Syrio and Yoren and Jaqen and Sandor. Sansa escapes because of Dontos and LF. Theon escapes because of Mance and his spearwives.

No one escapes on their own, yet it is only Sansa who gets hated for it.

[Queen Sansa Stark]

what a way to kill an otherwise wonderful post. that's a really horrible generalization you've made about readers of the an entire genre of literature just to make a point about a character you're fond of.

there have been a great many reasons for why sansa is not liked as a character so the only one i can write about is the fact that her zealous fans can sour any interests and opinions a poster on the board may have for sansa.

I apologize for sweeping all fantasy readers under one rug, but just because I say this doesn't mean that every Sansa fan is zealous (nor am I for the matter). That way you are also making a generalization of a group of people.