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Will the rest of Westeros ever realize how much they owe Stannis Baratheon?


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#1 To catch a Lannister

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 10:17 PM

I've been thinking about this. Stannis was never really given his proper due for his heroic and gallant intervention at the Battle of the Wall.  The details of the battle are really only known to the Watch, Stannis' men, the Wildlings, and maybe some Northmen here or there.  But the rest of the country never knew how close Westeros was to being completely overrun by a Wildling horde of 100,000.  The Watch was on the brink of collapse and was going to lose that battle.  Should the wall fall the already war-torn North and ravaged Riverlands at the time of AFFC would have almost certainly been completely overrun.  Whose to say how far the Wildlings would have gotten?  Gathering deserters, vandals, brigands, and all manner of opportunists to their cause along the way.

 

Stannis saved Westeros.  He saved a country that wouldn't recognize him as the rightful king yet rescued it all the same.  And yet the country remains relatively ungrateful.  My hope is that his legend will spread south eventually and people will realize just how much he sacrificed for them.  Otherwise they deserve the awful Lannister/Tyrell hodge-podge they've got and not the King who fucking cared.



#2 E-Ro

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 10:18 PM

Perfectly said brah brah. Westeros, no the WORLD, owes stannis a great debt. 



#3 Mladen

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 10:26 PM

Until he apologizes for "Lady Lannister" comment, I don't care if he had vanquished Others with his right and rebuild the Wall with his left hand, let alone winning a battle :)

 

Now, in all seriousness, some heroic acts are never sung in songs. People may have forgotten them, but that doesn't diminish the importance and value of the deed. Stannis indeed did a great thing, and he should be praised for that. Luckily, Davos found that letter and read it to him... Whether songs will sing about him, I have no idea, but if the next tune is about Renly repenting his sins from another world at Blackwater. I would consider staying out of songs... The North remembers... And that's all that matters.



#4 the conquoring bastard25

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 10:27 PM

The Knights Watch owes Stannis a debt that they repaid when Jon sent Stannis against Deep Motte.

The realm doesn't owe stannis nothing. He delayed the wall from coming down for a bit longer.

That doesn't mean that they owe him anything.

It's Jon that makes a better peace with the wildlings than Stannis. He at least let them keep their gods and dignity by not making them kneel. Under Jon the wildlings were tying to work together with the watch against the common foe.

Stannis pranced his ass off from the wall to free Winterfell. The northern lords have that well in hand. If your the freer of the known world and that fate rests on your shoulders it's kind of reckless to go running off to Winterfell where you could die.

Mel said it best these squabbles over the throne are meaningless so long as the others are there and coming south!

#5 E-Ro

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 10:33 PM

Ummm yeah, if Stannis had not stopped the wildlings from destroying the nights watch the others would have gotten to westeros way sooner, and everyone would currently be dead. He delayed the others, and that is giving aa(whoever that will be) time to stop them.

#6 Dain Storm

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 10:35 PM

Stannis rode south to rid him AND the Nightwatch of an enemy that's right behjnd them. Can't defend the wall from the Others when you've got the Boltons running the North behind you. And, lol, Northen lords. They're some of the most incompetent lords in Westeros.

#7 To catch a Lannister

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 10:36 PM

The Knights Watch owes Stannis a debt that they repaid when Jon sent Stannis against Deep Motte.

The realm doesn't owe stannis nothing. He delayed the wall from coming down for a bit longer.

That doesn't mean that they owe him anything.

It's Jon that makes a better peace with the wildlings than Stannis. He at least let them keep their gods and dignity by not making them kneel. Under Jon the wildlings were tying to work together with the watch against the common foe.

Stannis pranced his ass off from the wall to free Winterfell. The northern lords have that well in hand. If your the freer of the known world and that fate rests on your shoulders it's kind of reckless to go running off to Winterfell where you could die.

Mel said it best these squabbles over the throne are meaningless so long as the others are there and coming south!

 

You say the wall coming down is a certainty?  GRRM?  Is...is that you?  

 

All we know is that it would have DEFINITELY been compromised if Stannis hadn't been there.  He salvaged Westeros' greatest strategic asset and crushed its most immediate threat.  Every lord, vassal, and peasant owes him a great debt.



#8 Mladen

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 10:38 PM

Ummm yeah, if Stannis had not stopped the wildlings from destroying the nights watch the others would have gotten to westeros way sooner, and everyone would currently be dead. He delayed the others, and that is giving aa(whoever that will be) time to stop them.

 

I am not that certain we can claim this. I am not sure that Stannis indeed delayed Others' invasion. If the wildlings have destroyed NW, I am not sure how that would impact the Others' plans of invasion. Simply, we don't know that they have stopped or delayed invasion because of Stannis. I am all for credits when deserved, and Stannis does deserve praise for many things, but I doubt that delay in Others' invasion is one of them.



#9 TheWolfandTheLion

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 10:40 PM

One thing is for sure, if Westeros owes Stannis anything, there is no shortage of people here to remind us  . . . 



#10 Queen Sansa Stark

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 10:41 PM

Stannis definitely deserves the praise for being the only major lord who went to the Wall to answer the plea. It was my favorite moment of Stannis. In some ways Stannis is one of the few characters in this series I have respect for. Though, he still has to apologize for the "lady lannister" comment. :)


Edited by Queen Sansa Stark, 29 April 2014 - 10:42 PM.


#11 Boarsbane

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 10:42 PM

You say the wall coming down is a certainty?  GRRM?  Is...is that you?  
 
All we know is that it would have DEFINITELY been compromised if Stannis hadn't been there.  He salvaged Westeros' greatest strategic asset and crushed its most immediate threat.  Every lord, vassal, and peasant owes him a great debt.


Or maybe they owe Tywin and Mace for crushing him at the Blackwater so he would have almost no army left and be forced into fleeing North with his tail between his legs.

Edited by Boarsbane, 29 April 2014 - 10:43 PM.


#12 To catch a Lannister

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 10:43 PM

One thing is for sure, if Westeros owes Stannis anything, there is no shortage of people here to remind us  . . . 

 

http://media.tumblr....3p6G1qzdphh.gif

 

 

Stannis definitely deserves the praise for being the only major lord who went to the Wall to answer the plea. It was my favorite moment of Stannis. In some ways Stannis is one of the few characters in this series I have respect for. Though, he still has to apologize for the "lady lannister" comment. :)

Bingoooooooo.  It's like where was everybody else?  He was the only "king" actually serving out his duties as "protector of the realm."  And yeah, sorry about that comment, nobodies perfect sweetheart



#13 To catch a Lannister

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 10:44 PM

Or maybe they owe Tywin and Mace for crushing him at the Blackwater so he would have almost no army left and be forced into fleeing North with his tail between his legs.

 

Troll games on point #stayhungry #grinding


Edited by To catch a Lannister, 29 April 2014 - 10:44 PM.


#14 Boarsbane

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 10:46 PM

Troll games on point #stayhungry #grinding


Well he wouldn't of ran North if Tywin and Mace hadn't defeated him at the Blackwater, Tywin and Mace should get their fair share of the credit. As should Davos, every man who was doing the actual FIGHTING, Salladhor Saan, Jon Snow, etc. but I don't see you mention them in your worship of Stannis.

Edited by Boarsbane, 29 April 2014 - 10:46 PM.


#15 TheWolfandTheLion

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 10:46 PM

This place has not changed one bit . . . 



#16 E-Ro

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 10:49 PM

I dont think it is really debatable at this point that if the nights watch was destroyed, or worse, the wall bought down by the wildlings, that the others would have arrived far sooner. The others were harrasing the wildlings, pushing them south for a reason. that reason is the destruction of the nw.

Oh and, if Stannis had not shown up at the wall jon would be dead. If you think jon is aa, then yeah, by saving aa Stannis did save the world.

#17 To catch a Lannister

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 10:51 PM

Well he wouldn't of ran North if Tywin and Mace hadn't defeated him at the Blackwater, Tywin and Mace should get their fair share of the credit. As should Davos, every man who was doing the actual FIGHTING, Salladhor Saan, Jon Snow, etc. but I don't see you mention them in your worship of Stannis.

Hahahaha, yeah cause those who plan battles shouldn't get any credit?  I guess random soldier #8372 should get more credit than Napoleon at the Battle of Austerlitz?  You're a trip dude.



#18 Mladen

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 10:51 PM

Yeah, but the real question is whether Others considered NW a serious threat that could stop them? Stannis certainly ended the destruction of NW, but we have no idea how his actions influenced Others' plans. 



#19 the conquoring bastard25

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 10:54 PM

I know I was stiring the shit bucket when I said what I said.

I still stand behind what I said.

Stannis went to the Wall because it's his duty, not because he wants to. Before that he'd never cared about the north and got on his high horse making a stink with men like the lord of the Sisterton.

It took Davos his smuggler to remind him that a king is to serve the realm. Before that Stannis was blind because he was king and he wants his crown, because it's his "duty"

IT was reckless to go to Winterfell. We have no idea with the Bolton's planned for the Watch if anything. They have their hands full dealing with the rebel lords are the wedding of Arya Stark. The North has been dealing with it's problems for a lot longer than Stannis Baratheon has been alive. The North have been self governoring themselves even after the Dragon's came. They don't need Stannis to deal with their lord issues, they can figure it out.

Yet Stannis who needs support for his war for the throne, not the Other's is why he's at Winterfell. To prove the North that they had a king that cared and gather support by helping them with their war against the Boltons.

I did say that the Watch owes him a debt and Jon repaid that debt by saving his fool southron life by telling him not to march against the Dreadfort and showed him where to find a victory and some extra men. Gave him some political advice on how to keep him alive long enough to actually reach Deep and Winterfell, sent a raven warning him against the Karstarks.

Told him to spare Mance because he would eventually need him....yada yada yada.

And what does that fool Stannis do?

Grind his teeth, talk shit, threatned to take Jon's head more than once and throws his offer of Winterfell in Jon's face. Talks down to the man, did ned stark teach his bastard nothing?

Hell no the realm doesn't owe him anything. Because Varys was right about one thing, is there nothing more terrifying than a truly just man? The answer, No unless your dealing wit a just man that has nothing to lose.

#20 TallTyrion

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 10:55 PM

I doubt the wildilings would have made it past the neck. The south would have had a good deal of warning before they reached that far south and the natural bottleneck there would have been pretty easy for the Riverlords/ Lannisters to defend. 

 

So the North really owes him a lot