Arthur Dayne lives

[Ran]

Arthur Dayne's dead. That's an absolute fact. Qhorin was Qhorin.

And no, Mance is not Rhaegar fucking Targaryen.

People need to go find something more productive to do than waste everyone's time with absolutely terrible theories.

[King Jaime Lannister]

Arthur Dayne's dead. That's an absolute fact. Qhorin was Qhorin.

And no, Mance is not Rhaegar fucking Targaryen.

People need to go find something more productive to do than waste everyone's time with absolutely terrible theories.

Do you have a take on the "They found him" quote from the OP?

[KING-OF-WINTERFELL]

Arthur Dayne's dead. That's an absolute fact. Qhorin was Qhorin.

And no, Mance is not Rhaegar fucking Targaryen.

People need to go find something more productive to do than waste everyone's time with absolutely terrible theories.

NO, It's so fun.

[Ran]

Howland and probably Wylla, would be my guess.

Howland and Ned were the only survivors, as Ned thinks to himself:

They had been seven against three, yet only two had lived to ride away; Eddard Stark himself and the little crannogman, Howland Reed.

[jet199]

Arthur Dayne's dead. That's an absolute fact. Qhorin was Qhorin.

And no, Mance is not Rhaegar fucking Targaryen.

People need to go find something more productive to do than waste everyone's time with absolutely terrible theories.

Well the Hound is "dead" too and Cat and Jon and Davos. Its no surprise that no one trusts characters to stay dead in asoiaf. Personally my only good reason for disliking these theories is that I would prefer Lyanna to be alive than any of these posers.

[King Jaime Lannister]

I had never noticed the "They" line before. Strikes me as odd. But it doesn't prove anything either I guess.

[Francisco Araujo da Costa]

No, Arthur Dayne is alive and he is Farlen. Rhaegar is Mikken, Lyanna is Osha, Ser Oswell is Mallador Locke, and Ser Gerold is Cotter Pyke. No one ever dies in Westeros, they just take up jobs in Winterfell or the Wall.

[Fireball07]

No, Arthur Dayne is alive and he is Farlen. Rhaegar is Mikken, Lyanna is Osha, Ser Oswell is Mallador Locke, and Ser Gerold is Cotter Pyke. No one ever dies in Westeros, they just take up jobs in Winterfell or the Wall.

I think Rhaegar is Hodor personally.

[Ruthven]

I think Rhaegar is Hodor personally.

I posted this on another thread about a year ago, but Arthur Dayne is Hodor. Howland Reed tried to warg Arthur Dayne, in the doorway of the ToJ, but Dayne freaked out, fought him off, but ended up in a reduced state, able only to say the name of his attacker, and the location of where he was attacked.

But seriously...

Someone posted earlier that "loads" of people come back from the dead.... not really. Only Aegon, so far. All the other resurrections and revelations (JonCon, Beric, Stoneheart, Robert Strong) have been clearly alluded to ahead of time. Pulling another "Oh, Septa Lemore/Mance/Jaqen/Lannisters are really Ashara/Rhaegar/Syrio/Targs!" just doesn't cut it.

If you pull off a great swerve (and Jon as Rhaegar and Lyanna's son is still just an unconfirmed swerve), every other surprise you pull only dilutes the great ones.

Did no one on this board watch wrestling from 1998-2000?!

<edited as "silutes" isn't a word>

[NOT A TARG I SWEAR]

I think Rhaegar is Hodor personally.

You should hear Hodor on the harp.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Arthur Dayne's dead. That's an absolute fact. Qhorin was Qhorin.

Also Ashara, right?

RIGHT?

PLEASE??? <O>

[Ran]

Quaithe is Ashara Dayne.

It is known.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

<O>!!!!!

[King Jaime Lannister]

I posted this on another thread about a year ago, but Arthur Dayne is Hodor. Howland Reed tried to warg Arthur Dayne, in the doorway of the ToJ, but Dayne freaked out, fought him off, but ended up in a reduced state, able only to say the name of his attacker, and the location of where he was attacked.

But seriously...

Someone posted earlier that "loads" of people come back from the dead.... not really. Only Aegon, so far. All the other resurrections and revelations (JonCon, Beric, Stoneheart, Robert Strong) have been clearly alluded to ahead of time. Pulling another "Oh, Septa Lemore/Mance/Jaqen/Lannisters are really Ashara/Rhaegar/Syrio/Targs!" just doesn't cut it.

If you pull off a great swerve (and Jon as Rhaegar and Lyanna's son is still just an unconfirmed swerve), every other surprise you pull only dilutes the great ones.

Did no one on this board watch wrestling from 1998-2000?!

<edited as "silutes" isn't a word>

Oh ya remember when Mance Rayder was executed. How did that turn out? And JonCon was considered dead. If we are going to debate levels of "dead" then we are probably in the midst of a story where coming back from perceived death is quite possible, whether people like it or not.

[Fireball07]

I posted this on another thread about a year ago, but Arthur Dayne is Hodor. Howland Reed tried to warg Arthur Dayne, in the doorway of the ToJ, but Dayne freaked out, fought him off, but ended up in a reduced state, able only to say the name of his attacker, and the location of where he was attacked.

But seriously...

Someone posted earlier that "loads" of people come back from the dead.... not really. Only Aegon, so far. All the other resurrections and revelations (JonCon, Beric, Stoneheart, Robert Strong) have been clearly alluded to ahead of time. Pulling another "Oh, Septa Lemore/Mance/Jaqen/Lannisters are really Ashara/Rhaegar/Syrio/Targs!" just doesn't cut it.

If you pull off a great swerve (and Jon as Rhaegar and Lyanna's son is still just an unconfirmed swerve), every other surprise you pull only dilutes the great ones.

Did no one on this board watch wrestling from 1998-2000?!

<edited as "silutes" isn't a word>

Whether alluded to or not, they still happened.

I mean Beric, Cat and Gregor did come back from the dead. The Beric one wasn't predicted as such, but you heard the rumours, then you see it, then it paves the way. Don't really have a problem with any of those ones, they all make sense.

Aegon... have a bit more of a problem with that, but then he's possibly fake. A fake Aegon makes lots of sense. But then I suppose baby-swapping would make some sense too.

JonCon is kind of one, I suppose. Then you've got Alleras = Sarella. The identity of Coldhands.

Jon Snow, presumably. (Although this has also been well-paved).

I do agree that loads of shocks do dilute the big ones... Arthur Dayne and Rhaegar are clearly dead. But I wouldn't be surprised if there was one or two more big revelations thrown in... I think he may have overdone it at this stage, but I doubt he stops here.

[Ruthven]

Oh ya remember when Mance Rayder was executed. How did that turn out? And JonCon was considered dead. If we are going to debate levels of "dead" then we are probably in the midst of a story where coming back from perceived death is quite possible, whether people like it or not.

True, but with Mance/Rattleshirt, it was a fake out. A comic book death - his reaction as he dies is "off", and in Jon's very next chapter, Rattleshirt is clearly not right. That is a world of difference from "legendary knight is really alive and in hiding after all this time, five books later. "

JonCon went off in exile and was "rumoured to have drunk himself to death" - on my first read of ADwD this return felt cheap too, at first, but there has been some thought put into it - Connington never dies, he just... goes away. Arthur Dayne died. Gerold Hightower died. Whent died. Dustin died. Ashara threw herself from a tower (assuming that 13 year old Edric Dayne knows the truth).

Coming back from perceived death is kind of a standard in fiction, no? But there are levels.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

The "levels" of dead is important.

Many people has to pretend to be dead to save their necks: Brandon, Rickon, Davos. But they are eventually revealed to be alive and well.

Some others have deaths "open": Theon, Connington, Sandor. It's not spelled out but it's almost a given that they never died. (it's like a rule in fiction: no witness, no body: alive)

Some others return via magic: Berric, Cat, Gregor, and here is a problem. Not everybody can perform such resuscitation, so, that's why only Berric and Cat (and probably Jon, a major character) are returning. And maybe Gregor never died. Maybe there was a way to "transplant" his head or making him walk and function without one.

GRRM doesn't simply kill a person and at the next episode says "look! I'm fine!" just because. There are reasons.

[King Jaime Lannister]

Identity is one of central themes of the story. In some cases it gets as tangible as a character seemingly dying, only to come back to life. Sometimes it is hidden characters, coming back into the story. But most importantly, I think, is how the main characters in the series see themselves, while they are going through their respective struggles. See Theon, Arya, and Sansa. Tyrion has a fake name in the east and he takes control and chooses a different name; one that fits him better. Jon is offered the chance to become a Stark but chooses to remain a Snow. I think this is all connected. There may or may not be a big reveal or two with a character coming back from "perceived" dead, but if it happened it will have something to do with identity, and self awareness.

[Dorian Martell]

Arthur Dayne's dead. That's an absolute fact. Qhorin was Qhorin.

And no, Mance is not Rhaegar fucking Targaryen.

People need to go find something more productive to do than waste everyone's time with absolutely terrible theories.

This. And why is everyone a secret targ?

[Bowen]

Arthur Dayne's dead. That's an absolute fact. Qhorin was Qhorin.

And no, Mance is not Rhaegar fucking Targaryen.

People need to go find something more productive to do than waste everyone's time with absolutely terrible theories.

Roll on the next book as these "theories"are becoming more absurd,let's not forget that Jons parentage is supposed to be a mystery and I'll be honest I didn't get on to it whilst reading the books,having Rheagar dead and those around him save a few are the history of the books,Robs Rebellion ect,it would render the story pointless if they were still ricking about Westeros.