Baelor Blacktyde Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 I've never been a big fan of Patchface. It seems like more than half of the "predictions" we hear from him make no sense. However Melisandre claims that he is a very dangerous character. What happened to him under the ocean? Something similar to what Aeron Greyjoy does to his followers? Is he speaking the voice of the drowned god? Why is Melisandre so concerned by him? My conclusion, from reading the books, was that he was a simpleton babbling nonsense, which happened to sometimes match some current events if you interpreted it a certain way. Until Melisandre came along and told Jon Snow that Patchface was a scary guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batbob45 Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 He predicted the red wedding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houselannister Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 i'm of the opinion that patchface himself isn't important, but the things he says are. (does that make sense?) it seems to me that he solely exists just for the sake of the foreshadowing, as a literary device to sort of spruce up the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resonant Frequency Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 He's probably the most important character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batbob45 Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Shireen is the only one other than Mel that really listen to his songs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northernmonkey Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 I wouldn't say he's important in the same way as Bran or Dany, but he's definitely going to do something seriously important. I read a really interesting theory on another site about how Bloodraven has been in contact with Patchface. Here's the link if anyone wants to read it: http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/1xxq52/spoilers_all_he_haunted_my_dreams_different/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batbob45 Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 If the theory is trueWhat does Bloodraven want with Bran and Shireen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baelor Blacktyde Posted June 20, 2014 Author Share Posted June 20, 2014 He's probably the most important character. Lately in this forum I've been reading how Tywin Lannister is also Victarion's Dusky woman and Bran Stark = Willas Tyrell, so I'm afraid to ask what you mean by this. I don't want to have my mind blown three times in two days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baelor Blacktyde Posted June 20, 2014 Author Share Posted June 20, 2014 I wouldn't say he's important in the same way as Bran or Dany, but he's definitely going to do something seriously important. I read a really interesting theory on another site about how Bloodraven has been in contact with Patchface. Here's the link if anyone wants to read it: http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/1xxq52/spoilers_all_he_haunted_my_dreams_different/ Interesting theory, but personally I think there is too much talk of "warging" in the forums. I think that a person controlling another person is going to be limited to Bran, and Bran will probably soon be told that this is something that is Not Done by a Chivalrous Skinchanger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Light a wight tonight Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Lately in this forum I've been reading how Tywin Lannister is also Victarion's Dusky woman and Bran Stark = Willas Tyrell, so I'm afraid to ask what you mean by this. I don't want to have my mind blown three times in two days. It's not so much that Tywin is the Dusky Woman, but that he warged her just before he died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazfemur Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 In think in regards to importance, no, Patchface isn't an overly importantcharacter to story outcome and plotline. However, Patchface outside of story plotline and development is one of the most important characters, along with The Ghost Of High Heart, and Quaithe. When one of those characters is on a page, you can be damn well certain there are some spoilers about to happen. Theyre basically telling you whats going to happen 100 or so pages ahead. I'll elaborate. "Under the sea, the mermen feast on starfish soup, and the serving men are crabs." RIght? Davos Seaworth gets stuck with Godric Borrel, who at first is very weary of Davos. This is the scene when Godric tells Davos about Ned leaving a bastard in another woman's belly. Godric is also eating at the time, that famous sea soup/broth that he kept raving about that was passed down or something or rather. He offers Davos some of this soup. Godric Borell's house sigil, is a white crab, and as they are sailors/smugglers/sea captains, tey are in fact mermen. Always lean your eyes a little closer to the page when Patchface/The Ghost Of High Heart/Quaithe makes an appearence, lean your ear, a little closer at what they have to say. ETA: Not just Patchface, Ghost of High Heart, and Quaithe, but also any follower of R'hllor capable of Fiery-Precognition (Melisandre, Moqorro, Thoros has yet to demonstrate this ability). Not to forget dream sequences between Starks (plural, not just Bran), as well as Targaryen dreams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Hulboy Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 I do think Patchface is dangerous an Mel says she saw him in her visions an he is definitely strange.aerom an patch face we both swallowed by the sea an spit back out so to me they are both dangerous . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mother of The Others Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Shireen is the only one other than Mel that really listen to his songs. Is that a good? I'd like to think that there's something to be gained from listening to him, but is he really a Cassandra figure whose words could have helped if only someone had listened? All Patches has is "we're doomed", how does listening to that help Shireen choose a better course. She'll just get spooked into doing something as dumb as Selyse probably. I've never been a big fan of Patchface. It seems like more than half of the "predictions" we hear from him make no sense. This is Right! (in the way that Renly wasn't.) Once his outbursts are translated and matched up with other events in the text like how Blazfemur has done above, that's when you realize Patchface's words still aren't meaningful. And anyone who'd willingly subject themselves to this oaf as their favorite fool for any stretch of time would have to be..... like Renly, not quite right. What happened to him under the ocean? Something similar to what Aeron Greyjoy does to his followers? It pains me that Patch may be the real deal sea survivor of the sort Aeron keeps yammering about. Aeron merely goes through the motions, immitating people who've perhaps had some spotty success with water magic in the past, but without any real magic of his own in evidence, while Patch is living proof of.....some extreme waterworld action. hey, wait a minute, the sea god's line is that what dies "comes back stronger"----How the frick could Patches be characterized as having been made stronger by his experience? It's all rubbish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northernmonkey Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Interesting theory, but personally I think there is too much talk of "warging" in the forums. I think that a person controlling another person is going to be limited to Bran, and Bran will probably soon be told that this is something that is Not Done by a Chivalrous Skinchanger. Well I think it's heavily implied that Bloodraven is a warg in the Dunk and Egg stories, and it seems likely that he's warging Mormont's raven (and maybe others) and Coldhands. And personally I think Euron might be a warg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frances Bean Corbray Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Under the sea, what is dead may never die but rises again harder and stronger. I know. Oh, oh, oh. He's not important in and of himself -- after all, he's been cut from the show and nary a beat has been missed by simply giving his song to Shireen. It arguably even gains something by being given the sing-song quality of being sung in a cute little girl's voice (yet the lyrics remaining the morbid same) -- but something (someone?) important is acting through him. He makes Melisandre very unwary, and when you can creep out the creepy, you're really bringing something to the table. Officially a "fool" but his act is nothing like Butterbumps and Moonboy. Rather than low-brow jokes and pratfalls, he sings creepy nonsense hinging on the recurring metaphor of "Under The Sea" as Death, and/or a new world where fair is foul and foul is fair [opposite of our own, i.e. the old rules and wisdoms DO NOT APPLY ANYMORE, doesn't that sound chilling and apocalyptic in a series and a world where The Others are poised to invade and bring Permanent Winter], which eventually gets revealed as prophetic creepy nonsense when one of his songs plays out as The Red Wedding. Given his backstory of being the sole survivor of the shipwreck that killed Steffon Baratheon (Robert, Stannis, and Renly's dad), and only being discovered after several days lost at see over which time he should have died, as if being offered back up by the sea, forever changed (from how clever Steffon described him) and apparently forever addled, yet clairvoyant in his madness, it's very tempting to speculate on who -- or what -- speaks through him. Bloodraven is obviously a popular choice, but given the particulars of his experience I get the feeling he is, somehow, a conduit of The Drowned God and proof TDG exists, or at least whatever magical force that inspired the drowned faith in the first place is. Glimpsing the diety and going irrevocably mad would fit right in with the Cthonic undertones of the Ironborn's religion, after all :) He makes Melisandre unwary, too. And anybody who can creep out the creepy must be doing something right (or horribly horribly wrong, but in this context they're the same thing :D) Damphair, on the other hand, would probably be overjoyed to meet him :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazfemur Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 I dont know, I just appreciate foreshadowing -- in all of it's forms. it gives the subconscious something to look forward to. and then when it comes to pass, youre like "YEP! ther eit IS! RIGHT THERE!" like a word search. that being said, i really need to get a fucking LIFE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frances Bean Corbray Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 I dont know, I just appreciate foreshadowing -- in all of it's forms. it gives the subconscious something to look forward to. and then when it comes to pass, youre like "YEP! ther eit IS! RIGHT THERE!" like a word search. that being said, i really need to get a fucking LIFE Under the sea, a fucking life gets you. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kinkslayer Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Patchface is just hyping GRRM's next book series: A song of Seas and Fish, it will be completed by the time he's 95. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBlackFlame Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Thats a very good question. He seems to have at least some kind of pre/para cognitive abilities. It really is hard to say. As far as I'm aware at least none of his "prophecies" although I hesitate to call them that have come to pass but he did know about the Red Wedding. I personally think that some of his other rhymes will turn out to be significant too but how and which ones I don't know. But its a very interesting question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaesterSamwell Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Interesting theory, but personally I think there is too much talk of "warging" in the forums. I think that a person controlling another person is going to be limited to Bran, and Bran will probably soon be told that this is something that is Not Done by a Chivalrous Skinchanger. Although I do agree and think there is a little too much everyone warging everything. There is a precedent though. If Bran is to take over for BR there is a good chance that they have similar abilities (and the tie to the D&E novels mentioned above). Also there is a precedent with Bran warging Hodor so if you make the connection that Bran could warg someone who was not quite all there in Hodor. Patchface also had an accident and is not quite all there. Not saying I agree, but makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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