TheBlackFlame Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Yeah, I know. To be clear, I am not saying his words are meaningless. I just really really really really really really hope they are. They do pose more questions than answers they provide. We probably won't know what signifigance if any they have until after the fact. I can't speak for anyone else but look at the Red Wedding I wasn't able to make the connection until after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRANDON GREYSTARK Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Patchface is dangerous and he didn't need Melisandre to resurrect him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daemon Blackfyre IV Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 “ I will lead it. We will march into the sea and out again. Under the waves we will ride seahorses, and mermaids will blow seashells to announce our coming, oh, oh, oh. ” Speaking of Jon Snow traveling to the Manderlys ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daemon Blackfyre IV Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 I wouldn't say he's important in the same way as Bran or Dany, but he's definitely going to do something seriously important. I read a really interesting theory on another site about how Bloodraven has been in contact with Patchface. Here's the link if anyone wants to read it: http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/1xxq52/spoilers_all_he_haunted_my_dreams_different/ This was great thanks, i love the tie between patchface and the white raven and the fact that Jon is mentioned as king Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBlackFlame Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 “ I will lead it. We will march into the sea and out again. Under the waves we will ride seahorses, and mermaids will blow seashells to announce our coming, oh, oh, oh. ” Speaking of Jon Snow traveling to the Manderlys ? I see the Manderly thing but I don't see anything that indicates Jon Snow. But a good catch just the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daemon Blackfyre IV Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 The House Valaryon flags are at the wall they are the seahorses so maybe Aurane Waters steals Cersei's new fleet and comes to take Jon from the wall to the Manderly's (mermen) where they crown him king in the North. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBlackFlame Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 The House Valaryon flags are at the wall they are the seahorses so maybe Aurane Waters steals Cersei's new fleet and comes to take Jon from the wall to the Manderly's (mermen) where they crown him king in the North. Is house Velaryon's sigil a seahorse? If so thats another one. The Aurane Waters thing I don't see it though. This is fun! We might actually get to the bottom of something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skagosi Pirate Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 “ I will lead it. We will march into the sea and out again. Under the waves we will ride seahorses, and mermaids will blow seashells to announce our coming, oh, oh, oh. ” Speaking of Jon Snow traveling to the Manderlys ? Smarter fans than me have pointed out that in Patchface's ramblings usually Sea = Death. If this is the case the quote would be mean something along the lines of "We will die and come to life again. In death we will ride dead horses." Which sounds like a pretty accurate description of White Walkers. Patchface will lead an army of Wights/WW? The last part of the sentence is harder to decipher. One possible interpretation is that Patchface and the WWs march on Winterfell, and Manderly sounds a horn of death (Horn of Joramun?) to announce their arrival. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greymoon Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 ....my pet theory is that abilities such as Patchface's; Jojen's greendreams and even; Bran's greenseer abilities are somewhat similar, in that they require a sacrifice and allow to glimpse the future. This sacrifice imo, is a near death experience or serious illness. It's the price to pay for magic. You'll note that Bran's survival was really not certain to begin with; that Jojen was deadly ill as a child... and that Patchface might have truly drowned. (Jojen and Bran were both contacted by the three eyed crow -- so it is possible he be involved with Patchface as well...I don't think he is the reason for their abilities though -- I think these are inherent; but that near death releases the potential; and that BR sort of manages to push the abilities to the forefront....) The case can be made for Bloodraven as well...right now he is very old -- neither alive nor dead; Bran notices a lot of other, half faces or former greenseers iirc, in the walls of the cave. He can't say that they are alive or dead either.... of course by all accounts, Bloodraven had abilities even before he joined with trees -- but then, he was born with a particular condition. In any case; in Siberian shamanism it is practically a prerequisite for the shaman to have had a near death experience or serious illness: one cannot understand death, illness and life; without having experienced them; and one cannot communicate with the world of spirits, without having been part of that world before. The Shaman stands at the threshold of both worlds -- that of the living, and that of the spirits, and he is part of none. He is a guide, and observer of human societies; a messenger and vessel to the spirits.... "your blood makes you a greenseer" is told Bran; yet, what makes Bran's blood different from that of his siblings? Also....All greenseers are skinchangers; but only 1 skinchanger in a thousand is a greenseer. The way I read these things together is = blood makes a skinchanger and near death/illness, makes the skinchanger into a greenseer. (remember how Varamyr's consciousness splits as he dies? how he merges with his very surroundings?) basically to me, Bran's blood isn't special -- not more special than Robb's, and Arya's, or Sansa's or Rickon's. His near death makes him special though. Jojen he, nearly died from greywater fever and was gifted with prophetic dreams afterwards. Jojen is no skinchanger; but imo, there’s something peculiar about crannongmen. Hence, Jojen's blood + near death = greendreams. Jon's arc has often been associated to a multitude of resurrection myths; he's a skinchanger, and has also a fair amount of Valyrian blood...BR has shown interest in Jon before. Bran has managed to reach out to Jon in his dreams... it seems their stories are more closely related than one would think...so that's a thing to keep in mind for Jon as well... though I doubt GRRM will go down the Greenseer road a second time.... (unless Jon becomes Bran's escape route; say at the end of the books; and goes on a self imposed exile in Bloodraven's cave....) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Ragu Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 No other character in the whole ASOIAF made me cringe like Patchface. I couldn't put my finger on it, but he scared the hell out of me. When Melisandre describes him as dangerous - I claimed "Yeah! Don't you guys just see that!?" Then Jon came to his defence, pitying him. GRRM does it again. He makes you reconsider your feelings and conclusions all the time. That's what makes him so good. And even if he doesn't turn up on the show, I hope we haven't seen the last of Patchface. And I'm afraid of things he might come up with. Very, very afraid. By the way, it's nice to be here. Hello to everyone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batbob45 Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Jeyne poole wasn't really important in the first book but became important to the story latter on. Same with Wyman. The same might happen with Patchface Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pengwin7 Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Patchface is a spy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader of Fire Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 I don't think he is important to the story, he is certainly important to listen to. Considering he predicted the red wedding, his songs are a way of foreshadowing what could happen, although I find them very hard to decipher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BastardlyRock Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 No other character in the whole ASOIAF made me cringe like Patchface. I couldn't put my finger on it, but he scared the hell out of me. When Melisandre describes him as dangerous - I claimed "Yeah! Don't you guys just see that!?" Then Jon came to his defence, pitying him. GRRM does it again. He makes you reconsider your feelings and conclusions all the time. That's what makes him so good. And even if he doesn't turn up on the show, I hope we haven't seen the last of Patchface. And I'm afraid of things he might come up with. Very, very afraid. By the way, it's nice to be here. Hello to everyone! Welcome! :cheers: It is indeed one of the things that makes GRRM great. What I love about the Patchface discussion is a small part of a larger quality of GRRM's writing that I've always loved, and that's that he isn't afraid to give people with disadvantages very significant roles. He never underplays their importance (to the reader, anyhow, though other characters may take them for granted) The characters that come to mind immediately as having some handicap yet their significance being undeniable... Bran and Hodor both, Tyrion, and to my mind, Pathcface and his prophecies. Not to mention the significance of Moonboy and Jinglebell (though smaller appearances they were important none the less). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkingWITHcersei Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 I'm convinced he's on par with Mel and Coldhands in that he's dead and reanimated by some unknown force. I don't have the reference on me but it's in Clash when the story of PF is told. It's very specific that he was cold and dead and suddenly rose up. The wording is identical to how wights are described when they rise from the dead. I don't know if the Drowned God and the Great Other are one in the same or not but i don't believe "dead things" in the water are WW's either. This isn't a game for two players may apply to the Song as well as the Game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HouseHarrison Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 He's going to do something in the Jon-Mel plot eventually, but I don't think he'll be a central character or anything. He's definitely not just an annoying crazy dude though. The guy is a prophet and probably an avatar of the Drowned God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osha13 Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 He knows more then Melisandre does. As we have heard, fools are often the smartest ones at court, and Patchface seems to be one of the smarter and more prophetic ones that we have seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mother of The Others Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 If he's smart enough to make a difference but doesn't apply himself in a way that might help avert the tragedy he sees coming, how is that anything? He's given up on his employers and is resigned to what's on its way? That's why I resent his presence. If he knew for a fact nobody would listen and they'd just fire him if he tried to make them see, then I guess it might be the "smart" thing to lay low like he is and position himself so he could maybe save Shireen when the time comes. But aren't the portents telling us he's going to dine on folks when the time comes? So, I don't see how that's a helpful low-level prophet to have around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osha13 Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 If he's smart enough to make a difference but doesn't apply himself in a way that might help avert the tragedy he sees coming, how is that anything? He's given up on his employers and is resigned to what's on its way? That's why I resent his presence. If he knew for a fact nobody would listen and they'd just fire him if he tried to make them see, then I guess it might be the "smart" thing to lay low like he is and position himself so he could maybe save Shireen when the time comes. But aren't the portents telling us he's going to dine on folks when the time comes? So, I don't see how that's a helpful low-level prophet to have around.See I have always looked at it as Mel was the evil one, and Pathface would protect Stannis and his family from her in someway and that is why Melisandre sees him as a threat in her fires. I could be wrong though. Patchface has been around Stannis since his parents died, he was actually on the ship they were on which crashed off of storms end. He was supposed to be smart and make anybody laugh according to Steffon's letters from the free cities, so I'm not sure what that's about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue_Bard Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 It pains me that Patch may be the real deal sea survivor of the sort Aeron keeps yammering about. Aeron merely goes through the motions, immitating people who've perhaps had some spotty success with water magic in the past, but without any real magic of his own in evidence, while Patch is living proof of.....some extreme waterworld action. hey, wait a minute, the sea god's line is that what dies "comes back stronger"----How the frick could Patches be characterized as having been made stronger by his experience? It's all rubbish. Maybe it's a typo, and it's supposed to be 'stranger.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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