Why I dislike Dany; it's not her fault, it's her foes

[Mal Malenkirk]

In fact, I don't dislike Dany at all, but I strongly disliked her chapters in the second and third book. In other words, it's not her, it's her story. Especially the antagonists she faces after the first book. They aren't really her foes, they are bearers of gifts. Here's an army my dear, here's a city. Please, I insist that you have it.

When it comes to the character herself, I'm not a fan but I don't dislike her. She is a victim of abuse turning conqueror, and if she doesn't check herself, could become an abuser herself (So take care, Dany!). There are powerful moments, moments when I cheer, moments when she's aggravating and ultimately she's reasonably entertaining. I rather liked her POV in GoT.

But in the second and third books, she started benefiting from some kind of strange alternate reality where things that would get characters killed back in Westeros just made her more and more powerful.

At that point I could no longer just focus on the character, I kept being dragged out of the story because I was aghast at how absurd her raise to power was becoming, especially when compared to what was happening elsewhere in the books.

Let's examine her rise to power. First there's Drogo. Pretty much a barbarian yet he is far gentler and nurturing than you probably can expect from a Dothraki Khal. Hey, she got lucky. Sansa wishes she had that kind of luck. First boon she received, yet one all but the most hardluck of character will receive routinely. Oh, there is also Jorah. Okay, two boons.

Then there are the dragons. They are basically a gift. Not ideal, but I can live with that. She did at least do that fire walk ritual to get them to hatch, and it's a cool moment. The fact remains that the eggs were a gift, her bloodline is a birthright, and the ultimate knowledge of how to hatch the eggs (need sacrifice) pretty much fell in her lap, so that's a lot of gimme by the author. Many other characters would be envious at so many boons. But Arthur pretty much just gets Excalibur because he is Arthur, so all things considered, it's no big deal. It's a common trope in fantasy, I'm not fond of it, but tons of character I love benefited from it.

We're still in GoT and I'm still enjoying her story at that point, but she's a character who got a lot of help and boons since we met her. I guess it's okay because she received almost nothing but abuse before we met her. Still, she is edging into fanfiction Mary Sue territory.

And from there, it gets really bad, really fast. When she found that city in the middle of the red waste, she should have stayed there a few years to raise her dragons. With grown dragons, her march to power would have made sense. Instead she went to Quarth with juvenile dragons that can't defend themselves very well and no armed force to speak of. Immediately I wondered how the hell she would manage to retain her dragons and keep them from any number of covetous parties.

Answer: Nobody tried to take them! Not by force. WTF!? Everybody keeps talking about how valuable they are, yet no one just takes them. This is basically a young girl, with no social standing in any of the society she visits, no wealth and barely a handful of competent guards walking around with growing nuclear weapons. No one takes them from her.

We don't get to learn much about the men of power under whose influence she walked. Apparently they all have the greatest of respect for invidual rights and private property. Including the slavers of Astapor! They want the dragons? TAKE THEM!!!

You think if someone saw Sansa walk around with a baby dragon and few guards, nobody would have taken it? Of course they would have. The normal laws of human nature apply around Sansa but apparently not to Dany.

What happened instead is basically this:

-''Hi. Dany here, Mother of Dragons and future Breakers of Chains. I noticed you have a slave army.''

-''Yep. It is basically the source of my power and authority.''

-''Would you sell me the source of your power and authority?''

-''Yes.''

-''All of it?''

-''Yes.''

-''You won't keep enough to defend yourself?''

-''Nope.''

-''To the point where I can then just turn on you and you would be defenceless? Against me or against other enemies for that matter?''

-''I am that stupid so yes.''

-''Would you accept in payment a dragon that would be useless to you as a replacement source of power for years to come even if you do figure out a way to tame him?''

-''Yes.''

-''Really?!''

-''I said I am that stupid. What do you want me to say? That I am a complete moron whose sole goal in life is to provide you with an army? I am. That's exactly what I am. I am an idiotic stepping stone in your glorious march to power.''

-''So, you are telling me that when I approach you with barely a handful of warriors and three dragons, instead of just killing me and take my three priceless dragons, you will give me control of all your army for just one dragon that you will then have no way of preventing me from taking back?''

-''YES!!!''

-''I'm sorry, I just find it hard to believe that someone this stupid ever reached your position of power and that nobody before me thought to exploit it.''

-''It is a mystery, isn't it?''

And boom. An Army. 8000 Unsullied and a few thousands backup. For my next trick I will look under this rock and find the winning ticket of the Powerball. I will brag about it and nobody will steal it from me, of course. Because I'm me.

That was a really painful segment of the book. Who didn't see coming that Dany would flip on the slavers as soon as she had command of the army? The Slavers, apparently.

Sadly, the continuation of her stroll through Slaver Bay did not bring redemption. At Yunkai, she did a clever little trick to get the Second Sons drunk (though frankly, it also relied more on colossal stupidity from her foes than great wit on her part), so there's that. But the reason she had such an easy time is basically because a mercenary leader wanted to bang her and so turned on his comrades. Also because the Stormcrows are apparently rather blasé about murdering commanders.

Then she also takes Meereen in one day or so because here is a city with strong walls but stupid defenders who haven't identified the sewers as a weak point. Three city, each in one day. Thanks to...

Stupidity, stupidity and more stupidity.

At that point, I almost expected her to just march her army to the closest port and find an unattended fleet that she could just seize and sail to Westeros. Then she would likely have taken Storm's End in one hour because somebody forgot to close the gate. Why not?

Somewhere Sansa is watching this and saying: ''One white knight! All I'm asking is for one white knight! You can't tell me the odds of getting saved by one white knight are worse than this shit! ARG!''

And that's what has aggravated me the most about Dany's storyline. Not her character, but the idiot gravity field around her that bends the universe to her whims.

Apparently things get harder in ADWD. I read the first 4 books a while ago and now I am re-reading everything and will soon reach ADWD. Maybe it will reconcile me with her. Maybe that was even the point; see what happens when you get too much too soon. At any rate, I was really annoyed at her storyline by the end of SOS.

[#Turncloak]

Oh, you'll see what happens in ADWD. Don't worry, it's her who becomes stupid.

[I'm the Party Pooper]

A couple of things I disagree.

Warlocks tried to steal her dragons, so ain't like nobody tried it.

The slavers can't kill her and steal her dragons unless they want to loose any credibility for future deals.. sure they can rob today three dragons, and tomorrow they can rob an entire caravan of gold without giving back any unsullied in exchange.. but the day after no customer will knock at their door anymore. Daenerys could act treacherously because she didn't have to protect any kind reputation among those people, wheras she benefitted by gaining slave's love. The slavers would have earned three dragons but lost their business for a long time.

[Ingelheim]

If you haven't read ADWD yet...Dany becomes even more dislikeable there

[Hodor's Dragon]

Nice, well-written post. I especially liked the Dany-Kraznys dialogue.

Ultimately, though, I had an entirely different reaction to the scene. Basically, I noticed that he was incredibly stupid for giving her his entire army without really even making sure he had the dragon, but I just didn't dwell on it.

Intentionally. Because I was granting Martin a little poetic license. He had a story idea he wanted to achieve, which was having Dany swell up from nothing - apparently all she owned in her first chapter was the dress she wore to the wedding - into a huge, overwhelming power. That ain't easy to achieve in a believable way. As far as different ways for authors to achieve that kind of progression that I've read go, this one was actually more on the believable side than most. Plus it was clever, gratifying and very, very dramatic. (I mean, do you watch the show? That was the best scene in 4 seasons of the show, hands down.) Considering all that, I realized hey, this is a little stupid, but I just kept on driving past that billboard.

And while the main thing was just that I cut the author a little slack, it's also easy to see how tempting the deal was for Kraznys. He obviously had zero respect for Dany - which the author was at pains to show us - and just wouldn't have contemplated the idea that she was setting him up for the kill. And a dragon? Especially the big one? Kraznys was looking at becoming the most powerful man in the world. He was willing to take a little risk.

And a little bit the same as to the dragons not being stolen in Qarth. That one bothered me even less because (1) Martin just writes right past it by having her not really worry about her dragons being stolen, other than a quickie mention of keeping them in one wing of the house and putting guards over them, and (2) Qarth is so exotic, mysterious, ancient, and very other from my experience that I could easily imagine that they had some super-exotic way of stopping thievery or some religious thing or something. Sure, that idea may not hold up well to close inspection, but why worry about close inspection?

So while I kind of agree with you? Not the same overall reaction. I mostly bought it and then forgot about the part I didn't buy and moved on. That's often a good way to roll when you're reading a story - you've really just gotta be able to put up with a little stupidity here and there: it's only when it never stops that it's time to look for a different book. . . .

[#Turncloak]

Actually, if you thought Dany's journey was easy till' now, you'll see how it all backfires. I found it an interesting read.

[cxvb]

The slavers would have earned three dragons but lost their business for a long time.

The slavers also would have lost a lot of business for years if they sold all their Unsullied and those in training. They apparently expected to be able to keep going for years without soldiers protecting them, earning nothing and a dragon they can't turn to gold. A bad reputation for five to ten years makes no difference to their earnings but puts them 3 dragons and 8000+X Unsullied ahead.

[hodorisfaclessman]

to be fair the city in the red waste shows signs of being wrecked by dothraki, staying there may have brought them calling esp as she sends out scouts.

In quarth shes surrounded by a a small band of dothraki and a large knight so petty thieves are out off (also as a wealthy merchant hub it may have an efficent police system) and shes quickly placed under the protection of xaro. We also dont know how much influence the warlocks have in shutting down any theft (so they can try it themselves) and how their culture views theft

In astopr she is seem as a weak foolish woman (her reaction to the slicing off a nipplle and the story of the baby strangling) whos bound for westeros and dangles something that could reiginite the old ghiscari dream of empire under their noses....they let their guards down unaware shed take the random step of breaking her word and beggining a spartacus campaign and abandoning her westeros dream while also making enemies of a very rich and interconnected part of the world.....we the reader see it comming a mile away as we see danys struggle with slavery

Yunkai she uses a clever paln with the wine yes and has the amazing luck that the stormcrows would have such a captain in their ranks

The mereneese prob should have assigned men to the sewers but to be fair we dont know they didnt have a few that jorah ser barristand and belwas and the 20 unsullied didnt kill before and alarm could be raised in the dead of night with an attack raging outside

all in all the mistakes made arent as bad as made out ........itd be a dull book if everyone was roose/tywin level cunning

[hodorisfaclessman]

The slavers also would have lost a lot of business for years if they sold all their Unsullied and those in training. They apparently expected to be able to keep going for years without soldiers protecting them, earning nothing and a dragon they can't turn to gold. A bad reputation for five to ten years makes no difference to their earnings but puts them 3 dragons and 8000+X Unsullied ahead.

They sold all the unsullied yes but bear in mind if they belive dany is going to westeros then its beliveable shel need a force at least that large

It strikes me that the goal once they had a dragon was to consult with their ghiscari neighbours who they are all seem to have blood and marriage relations with (so no they wont be undefended) and work out the details of using this lil firebreather to restore the empire.

[Hodor's Dragon]

If the point of waiting is to grow the dragons - and it is - the city in the red waste was not the place. What were they going to eat, scorpions? A growing dragon has a big appetite, and we are repeatedly told that they never stop growing so long as they eat enough. Dany could've stayed in the red wastes for 10 years and basically would've come out of there with 3 flying cats.

[RoamingRonin]

-''To the point where I can then just turn on you and you would be defenceless? Against me or against other enemies for that matter?''

-''I am that stupid so yes.''

:lol:

This post is great. I actually agree with most of it. GRRM does make characters stupid as hell to fit his needs.

The Sansa comparisons were hilarious, BTW.

[Wmarshal]

RR, you are right, case and point Mance Rayder.

[Mal Malenkirk]

Considering the slaver getting a bad reputation: If they felt one dragon was worth all their unsullied, then three dragons was worth a bad reputation! Be serious.

Beside, Dany was in a unique position to get screwed like that. Her dragons were on site, ready to be stolen, priceless and with little protection.

Most normal customers would already have an army, would pay through banking arrangements, not by bringing pots full of golds, and they'd have a long term arrangement with the slavers. Not the same game.

The hit to their reputation would be less than the Frey's.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Enjoy ADWD.

And yes, while everyone in the story benefits from plot gifts at one time or another (and Dany's defenders will be more than happy to point out each and every one in order to deflect the argument), Dany's do seem to rely far more on the inherent and irrational stupidity and over-the-top evil of her opponents.

My advice: Keep reading and realize that it's this way for a reason. The thing about luck is that it eventually runs out.

[Wmarshal]

Meh

Green Grace is not that clever to me, Dany has a weird thing to trust old people, and walk into traps, anyone else would have been caught GG, a specially after the Harpy killed the freewomen that gave her relative problems.

Don't read if you haven't read Dance.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Meh

Green Grace is not that clever to me, Dany has a weird thing to chose old people, and walk into traps, anyone else would have been caught GG, a specially after the Harpy killed the freewomen that gave her relative problems.

Don't read if you haven't read Dance.

So you argue that the Green Grace really isn't that impressive, but then turn around and say that Dany

isn't an idiot for not catching on to her? Seems contradictory to me. It's not as if Dany hasn't already learned that harmless older ladies can be anything but.

[The Traveler]

As to the reputation part, it's not like dany is representing some known city: They could at best have killed her and every single one with her so there would be no witness to the betrayal. Or at worse just let the news spread: Astapor slavers deceived some dumb tourist? Meh, doesn't mean they would do the same to their long term local clients.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

As to the reputation part, it's not like dany is representing some known city: They could at best have killed her and every single one with her so there would be no witness to the betrayal. Or at worse just let the news spread: Astapor slavers deceived some dumb tourist? Meh, doesn't mean they would do the same to their long term local clients.

Also a bit funny that people are concern-trolling the slavers and their care for their reputation, when the one who shat all over their business reputation in that exchange was actually Dany.

[Wmarshal]

When did I say she isn't a idiot?

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

When did I say she isn't a idiot?

Fair enough. You just seem to be attempting to mitigate the idiocy somewhat.