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"Darksister" is it in the cave with Bloodraven? will a warged Hodor wield it?


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#1 Lord Damian

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 12:10 AM

I have been playing the "clash of Kings" mod for Mount and Blade Warband and there is a submission where your player can "obtain" Darksister, the legendary Targaryen Valaryian steele sword. I wonder, if Bloodraven took it with him to the cave and a warged Hodor, by bran ofcourse, will wield it?



#2 Fire Eater

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 03:25 PM

I think it is in the cave with BR, and Bran wielding it through Hodor is a possiblity, but I also think it might be Meera or Val. In all scenarios, it is used on Mel who thinks everyone in the cave are servants of the Great Other. 



#3 RumHam

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 03:44 PM

Since he was sent to the Wall from the black cells, it's very unlikely they'd let him keep the sword.



#4 Bryanfury

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 03:51 PM

Well thats a point of contention, as Bloodraven was apparently part of the council that tried to appoint Aemon and appointed Egg as king. Can hardly have done that from the Black Cells

#5 Leonardo

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 04:01 PM

But Maekar was the one who locked him up, and he knew he had the sword. It's the most important Targaryen relic left in Westeros now that the dragons are gone; it's a symbol of their dynasty. If Bloodraven didn't give it up, they'd have tortured him until he did. Considering he could have basically killed Maekar with a thought, I think this isn't the case. Bloodraven legitimately wanted to serve the dynasty it seems, why would the sword be allowed to go to the wall?



#6 Big Daddy

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 04:14 PM

Maybe Bloodraven did the old Jedi mind trick a la Obi Wan Kenobi, and made everybody he passed on his way to the wall forget they saw it?

 

"This isn't the sword you are looking for."

 

"This isn't the sword we're looking for."

 

"He can go about his business."

 

"You can go about your business."

 

"Move along."

 

"Move along! Move along!"


Edited by Big Daddy, 02 August 2014 - 04:18 PM.


#7 RumHam

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 04:24 PM

Well thats a point of contention, as Bloodraven was apparently part of the council that tried to appoint Aemon and appointed Egg as king. Can hardly have done that from the Black Cells

 

 

But Maekar was the one who locked him up

 

 

The details of who locked him up and when are unclear, but what is clear is that he went from the black cells to the Wall. So he really shouldn't have the sword with him.



#8 Fire Eater

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 04:36 PM

 

 

 

 

The details of who locked him up and when are unclear, but what is clear is that he went from the black cells to the Wall. So he really shouldn't have the sword with him.

The sword was given to him by the reigning Targaryen monarch at the time, and it was rightfully his as along as he lived. The sword would have been kept somewhere, and Aegon V would likely not have refused to let BR take it with him. It would go back to House Targaryen when BR died. 


Edited by Fire Eater, 02 August 2014 - 04:36 PM.


#9 Big Daddy

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 04:41 PM

I hope we see this sword again before the end of the series. Not as badly as I want Blackfyre to return, but it's right up there.



#10 Stannis'_Barber

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 04:48 PM

If it wasn't with BR I would think Rhaegar would have wielded it during Robert's Rebellion.

#11 Leonardo

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 04:52 PM

 

 

 

 

The details of who locked him up and when are unclear, but what is clear is that he went from the black cells to the Wall. So he really shouldn't have the sword with him.

 

Yes, but who else even had the power to lock him up? We know he was disliked if not hated by Maekar; it's either that or he was blamed for Aerys death

 

And like someone mentioned, he was on the council AFTER Maekar's death, so that leads me to think Maekar was the one responsible in some form or fashion, or his hand.



#12 RumHam

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 05:11 PM

The sword was given to him by the reigning Targaryen monarch at the time, and it was rightfully his as along as he lived. The sword would have been kept somewhere, and Aegon V would likely not have refused to let BR take it with him. It would go back to House Targaryen when BR died. 

 

That seems unlikely, especially if it was the last Valyrian steel sword they had. The closest situation we have from the book is Ned. Ilyn Payne took Ice when Ned was imprisoned and later used it to kill him.

 

Edit: also Mormont left his sword for his son when joining the Watch, remember.

 

 

Yes, but who else even had the power to lock him up? We know he was disliked if not hated by Maekar; it's either that or he was blamed for Aerys death

 

And like someone mentioned, he was on the council AFTER Maekar's death, so that leads me to think Maekar was the one responsible in some form or fashion, or his hand.

 

It seems very unlikely to me that he was imprisoned by Maekar, then released by Maekar's Hand or whoever and put in charge of a Great Council to decide who will be king, and then thrown back in his cell. Why would Maekar's Hand cede any of his power over the Great Council to Bloodraven? We've long assumed Maekar imprisoned him, probably over a succession dispute. I really doubt that's the case after learning of the Great Council thing. Which leaves us with pretty much only one other option, that Egg  imprisoned him for some reason, and then sent him to the Wall.

 

Edit: Also I don't think that Maekar hated Bloodraven. Where do you get that from? Bloodraven describes him as prickly, and we're told that Maekar "sulks at Summerhall" since Bloodraven was made hand. It seems more likely he's Stannis style sulking that he was not made Hand.


Edited by RumHam, 02 August 2014 - 05:18 PM.


#13 Big Daddy

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 05:17 PM

I think Bloodraven is CERTAINLY clever enough to have found a way to have gotten Darksister to the cave with him. I'd like it if he gave it to Bran before he dies to pass on to whoever is destined to end up with it. Bran is either staying in the cave or NOT staying in the cave; having the sword to give to someone is a nice idea. Especially if his ticket out of the cave is a ride on a dragon.



#14 ShadowCat Rivers

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 05:24 PM

Howland Reed has it, he's an obsessed collector of lost objects and persons  :)

 

Seriously now, I could see it with BloodRaven, but Hodor wielding it... Hodor needs a double extra greatsword, Dark Sister in his hands would look like a dagger.



#15 Fire Eater

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 07:20 PM

 

That seems unlikely, especially if it was the last Valyrian steel sword they had. The closest situation we have from the book is Ned. Ilyn Payne took Ice when Ned was imprisoned and later used it to kill him.

 

Edit: also Mormont left his sword for his son when joining the Watch, remember.

 

Except BR wasn't planning to kill Aegon with Dark Sister. He was the one leading the Great Council that chose Aegon to sit the IT. The sword had been given to him. 

 

Mormont kept Longclaw at the Wall with him, and Jon still wields it remember. 


Edited by Fire Eater, 02 August 2014 - 07:21 PM.


#16 RumHam

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 07:29 PM

Except BR wasn't planning to kill Aegon with Dark Sister. He was the one leading the Great Council that chose Aegon to sit the IT. The sword had been given to him. 

 

 

I still don't think he would get to keep what was possibly the only remaining Targaryen family sword when sent to the black cells or to the Wall.

 

Mormont kept Longclaw at the Wall with him, and Jon still wields it remember. 

 

He gave up the sword to his son when he took his vows. Then his sister sent it to him after Jorah left it behind.



#17 TheNinjaDC

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 07:46 PM

Hodor or Bran would be a waste. Bran will never walk again, and Hodor-Bran is strong but clumsy. A giant great sword or war hammer suits him more.

 

If anyone currently at the wall/north is going to wield it it is Jon after certain reveal.

 

Non-wall contenders include Arya.



#18 Fire Eater

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 10:51 AM

 

I still don't think he would get to keep what was possibly the only remaining Targaryen family sword when sent to the black cells or to the Wall.

 

The sword was given to him by Aegon IV or Daeron II. It was still his. Besides, Egg didn't show much interest in Valyrian swords, and likely assumed it would be returned after BR died who was already probably old by that time. If it had stayed at the RK, why hasn't it been mentioned? It would have been found in the armory of the RK. Joffrey would have used it. 

 

 

He gave up the sword to his son when he took his vows. Then his sister sent it to him after Jorah left it behind.

 Meaning members of the NW can keep Valyrian steel swords from their family at the Wall. BR would have likely brought it with him. 


Edited by Fire Eater, 03 August 2014 - 10:52 AM.


#19 RumHam

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 11:08 AM

The sword was given to him by Aegon IV or Daeron II. It was still his. Besides, Egg didn't show much interest in Valyrian swords, and likely assumed it would be returned after BR died who was already probably old by that time. If it had stayed at the RK, why hasn't it been mentioned? It would have been found in the armory of the RK. Joffrey would have used it. 

 

Even if Egg personally wasn't much of a fighter or sword enthusiast, I think he'd want to hang on to his family's last Valyrian blade. The sword is never mentioned in the main series at all. There's plenty of time for it to get lost between Bloodraven taking the black and the start of the novels. It's even within the realm of possibility that Rhaegar had it on the Trident and it's just never mentioned. Robert would have had no use for it personally. It's possible that some random guy picked it up during the mad rush to grab Rhaegar's rubies.

 

 

 Meaning members of the NW can keep Valyrian steel swords from their family at the Wall. BR would have likely brought it with him. 

 

I doubt there's a rule that you can't take family swords to the Night's Watch, but it's worth considering that Jeor left his behind when he went. Jorah's exile changed things and Lady Mormont sent him the sword. Also Bloodraven wasn't going voluntarily, he was sent there from the black cells. There is a possibility that Aegon gave him the the (probably) only remaining Targaryen Valyrian sword back before he left for what was essentially exile, but it seems really unlikely to me.



#20 Rhaenys_Targaryen

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 02:04 PM

 

 

 

 

The details of who locked him up and when are unclear, but what is clear is that he went from the black cells to the Wall. So he really shouldn't have the sword with him.

 

:agree:

The sword was given to him by the reigning Targaryen monarch at the time, and it was rightfully his as along as he lived. The sword would have been kept somewhere, and Aegon V would likely not have refused to let BR take it with him. It would go back to House Targaryen when BR died. 

When you get thrown in the cells, you don't have access to your stuff. And why would Aegon V let Bloodraven take the last Targaryen Valyrian sword to the Wall. That would mean that the Targaryens were without Valyrian swords..

 

The sword was given to him by Aegon IV or Daeron II. It was still his. Besides, Egg didn't show much interest in Valyrian swords, and likely assumed it would be returned after BR died who was already probably old by that time. If it had stayed at the RK, why hasn't it been mentioned? It would have been found in the armory of the RK. Joffrey would have used it. 

 

 Meaning members of the NW can keep Valyrian steel swords from their family at the Wall. BR would have likely brought it with him. 

Perhaps because it was lost in a later battle (War of the Ninepenny Kings, Fourth Blackfyre Rebellion, other fights with rebels... etc.)

 

That Bloodraven didn't take it to the Wall with him doesn't mean the Targaryens still had it in 282AC