Was Viserys evil?

[The Bastard Daughter]

When all he had was a crown and a sister, he sold the crown to feed the sister.

And then sold his sister to get his crown.

[Slender Aimry Hill]

top marks both of you, hilarious exchange

[James Arryn]

And then sold his sister to get his crown.

No, I knew this would be the response.

No, then what he did was marry her to a powerful warlord for political gain, or in other words, exactly what everyone else does, though few manage to become queens in the bargain.

His first act was much less common. His last standard.

[James Arryn]

Yeah. That really was his redeeming feature. I feel sorry for him, because despite what most think, I don't buy the he was already mad thing. Dany herself says that he was an ok brother and protector until he had to sell their mother's crown. He had been a prince, with a loving mother to take her 8f him and without any responsibilities. Suddenly, with the fall of the targs, he was the heir to a powerful dynasty and left to care for a baby sister without any resources other than one kind knight who later dies.

Now, that doesn't excuse his actions to Dany later, but I think that if he had led a better life he would have been an fairly decent guy.

Agreed. He's definitely a twisted, broken creature by the time we meet him...though I'd point out, still much more bark than bite ( his worst actions are horrible things he says he'll do, but his bullying is actually pretty pedestrian, though obviously Dany would suffer either way)...but never the less, he's a freak by the time we meet him, and we even see Dany start having to carry him. But as you say, there was a decent boy in there, in the beginning, and he carried her for a very long time.

[The Bastard Daughter]

No, I knew this would be the response.

No, then what he did was marry her to a powerful warlord for political gain, or in other words, exactly what everyone else does, though few manage to become queens in the bargain.

His first act was much less common. His last standard.

He never wanted to marry her to Drogo, he did so with the sole intention of using drogos army to win his throne. He wanted to marry her himself

A vain young man and greedy. Viserys lusted after his father's throne, but he lusted after Daenerys too, and was loath to give her up. The night before the princess wed he tried to steal into her bed, insisting that if he couldn't have her hand, he would claim her maidenhead. Had I not taken the precaution of posting guards upon her door, Viserys might have undone years of planning...Viserys was Mad Aerys's son, just so....

Even going as far as to tell Dany he would allow the entire Khalasar to rape her if thats waht it took.

Viserys also showed signs of the taint early on before their flight and eventual exile.

Even as a child, your brother Viserys oft seemed to be his father's son, in ways Rhaegar never did.

I don't think hes evil necessarily, he suffers from mental illness like his father, though it seems earlier than his father did. But again I have sympathy for the child not the abuser he became.

[James Arryn]

He never wanted to marry her to Drogo, he did so with the sole intention of using drogos army to win his throne. He wanted to marry her himself

A vain young man and greedy. Viserys lusted after his father's throne, but he lusted after Daenerys too, and was loath to give her up. The night before the princess wed he tried to steal into her bed, insisting that if he couldn't have her hand, he would claim her maidenhead. Had I not taken the precaution of posting guards upon her door, Viserys might have undone years of planning...Viserys was Mad Aerys's son, just so....

Even going as far as to tell Dany he would allow the entire Khalasar to rape her if thats waht it took.

Viserys also showed signs of the taint early on before their flight and eventual exile.

Even as a child, your brother Viserys oft seemed to be his father's son, in ways Rhaegar never did.

I don't think hes evil necessarily, he suffers from mental illness like his father, though it seems earlier than his father did. But again I have sympathy for the child not the abuser he became.

1) Of course he wanted an army. That's often the essence of a political/dynastic marriage.

2) Him wanting his sister isn't actually 'nasty' as you're depicting it. Of course for us it's 'ick', but in his family it's normal.

3) For the rest, see my second post above. He was definitely fucked up by the end, and Westeros is fortunate he never ruled, but again he was much more bark than bite (overcompensating for Worley impotence, I'd imagine) and I think a lot of the twisting came after he gave away his identity's foundation and became a laughingstock in order to feed himself and his little sister.

I'm not sure how many kings or wannabe kings would have made the choice Viserys originally did.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

Viserys was a brat who felt the world owed him something. He was crowned on Dragonstone before he fled Westeros, then was upset his whole life that he couldnt live it like he was a real king. He picked on and lashed out at the only person he had, his little sister. Actually a fairly common response for people whose lives have gone wrong.

OTOH Dany had the same life he did but she also had a sexually and physically abusive older brother. The fact that she turned out so strong and wonderful shows that it all comes down to the individul.

He technically kept her alive long enough to sell her to get more for himself, with no regard for what would happen to her, Illyrio too. They both basically said they didnt care what happened to her and she would probably die on the Dothraki Sea. Common for men in this culture to trade around women to further themselves.

[Bloodmane]

Targs are made for greateness or madness. Viserys surely had the "taint", he also had a f**ked-up childhood. The Viserys shown to us was a frustrated, sour nutcasev - just the kind of persosns who are rightfully considered EVIL looking at their deeds.

[Stannis's Lawyer]

Targs are made for greateness or madness. Viserys surely had the "taint", he also had a f**ked-up childhood. The Viserys shown to us was a frustrated, sour nutcasev - just the kind of persosns who are rightfully considered EVIL looking at their deeds.

Tell that to Jaehaerys II. Or Aegon V.

[Ser Charles of Rosehaven]

Viserys is the greatest person ever to die. I think it is like syrio's story but reversed. If we had seen more of him we would have cried with his death. However, if we had seen more of syrio he would disapoint us.

[The Bastard Daughter]

Viserys was a brat who felt the world owed him something. He was crowned on Dragonstone before he fled Westeros, then was upset his whole life that he couldnt live it like he was a real king. He picked on and lashed out at the only person he had, his little sister. Actually a fairly common response for people whose lives have gone wrong.

OTOH Dany had the same life he did but she also had a sexually and physically abusive older brother. The fact that she turned out so strong and wonderful shows that it all comes down to the individul.

He technically kept her alive long enough to sell her to get more for himself, with no regard for what would happen to her, Illyrio too. They both basically said they didnt care what happened to her and she would probably die on the Dothraki Sea. Common for men in this culture to trade around women to further themselves.

This

[James Arryn]

Viserys was a brat who felt the world owed him something. He was crowned on Dragonstone before he fled Westeros, then was upset his whole life that he couldnt live it like he was a real king. He picked on and lashed out at the only person he had, his little sister. Actually a fairly common response for people whose lives have gone wrong.

OTOH Dany had the same life he did but she also had a sexually and physically abusive older brother. The fact that she turned out so strong and wonderful shows that it all comes down to the individul.

He technically kept her alive long enough to sell her to get more for himself, with no regard for what would happen to her, Illyrio too. They both basically said they didnt care what happened to her and she would probably die on the Dothraki Sea. Common for men in this culture to trade around women to further themselves.

Well, not really. She didn't abuse anyone, she didn't raise her sibling as a child and there is absolutely nothing to suggest Viserys was part of the 'she'll just die on the Dothraki Sea' thinking, especially as that would destroy his hopes AND himself, in that he insisted on going along. Where are you getting this?

[The Bastard Daughter]

Well, not really. She didn't abuse anyone, she didn't raise her sibling as a child and there is absolutely nothing to suggest Viserys was part of the 'she'll just die on the Dothraki Sea' thinking, especially as that would destroy his hopes AND himself, in that he insisted on going along. Where are you getting this?

The only reason he followed them into the Dothraki sea was to make sure Drogo gave him his army and when he didn't get it fast enough he spat on their sacred traditions and put a sword to Danys unborn child at Vaes Dothrak, that was after his failed attempt to steal her dragon eggs and leave her behind

[Suzanna Stormborn]

I meant she had the same run-away life as him, not that she was abusive to a non-existent little sibling, sorry I didn't spell it out more clearly.

Viserys said, 'I would let all the dothraki and their horses fuck you to get what I want.'

Illyrio said "she will most likely die out there". After he brokered the marriage for profit.

Someone who is willing to let a horse fuck their sister to get what they want doesnt care about her at all. Oh also he pointed a sword at her pregnant belly and said he would cut the baby out.

This is not a guy who is concerned with Dany at all.

"I want what I came for, " he told her. "I want the crown you promised me. he bought you, but he never paid for you......ill cut the bastard out and leave it for him. The sword point pushed through her silks and pricked at her navel."

That's where i'm getting it.

[James Arryn]

I meant she had the same run-away life as him, not that she was abusive to a non-existent little sibling, sorry I didn't spell it out more clearly.

Viserys said, 'I would let all the dothraki and their horses fuck you to get what I want.'

Illyrio said "she will most likely die out there". After he brokered the marriage for profit.

Someone who is willing to let a horse fuck their sister to get what they want doesnt care about her at all. Oh also he pointed a sword at her pregnant belly and said he would cut the baby out.

This is not a guy who is concerned with Dany at all.

"I want what I came for, " he told her. "I want the crown you promised me. he bought you, but he never paid for you......ill cut the bastard out and leave it for him. The sword point pushed through her silks and pricked at her navel."

That's where i'm getting it.

It doesn't make any sense though. His hyperbole aside, if she dies on the Dothraki Sea:

1) No army

2) Probably no him, as he's there too.

You are choosing to conflate his agenda with Illyrio's, and it simply doesn't work. It doesn't require him to care for her anymore...though dismissing a decade raising her pretty much alone at the cost of almost anything without seemingly exposing her to most of what being a poor street kid means as 'for a little while until' seems an extraordinary understatement of the care he must have felt for her in the past...for it to still make no sense. Because the result to her is the result to him if they're still on the Dothraki Sea when it happens.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Considering Dany's visions about Viserys, in which he says she was meant to be his wife and have his children, I suppose that Viserys, in his own twisted way, had planned to have Dany as his Queen but the whole marriage to Drogo got in the way. Maybe he expected to reclaim Dany once he got his army. In fact, he threatens with taking Dany and leaving her son.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

It doesn't make any sense though. His hyperbole aside, if she dies on the Dothraki Sea:

1) No army

2) Probably no him, as he's there too.

You are choosing to conflate his agenda with Illyrio's, and it simply doesn't work. It doesn't require him to care for her anymore...though dismissing a decade raising her pretty much alone at the cost of almost anything without seemingly exposing her to most of what being a poor street kid means as 'for a little while until' seems an extraordinary understatement of the care he must have felt for her in the past...for it to still make no sense. Because the result to her is the result to him if they're still on the Dothraki Sea when it happens.

I wasn't trying to dismiss the decade they spent together on the run. He did keep her alive and feed her. But he was still a selfish little shit who abused her. And by the time we catch up with them in the first Dany chapter of GoT it is quite clear that Viserys no longer cares about her, but only about his crown.

Illyrio later says that before her wedding he wanted to bust in her room and give her the old in-out, and that he actually did have to stop Viserys from going in their the night before to rape her, but only because he (illyrio) didnt want her to get pregnant early and mess up his 'plans'. No no no, these two men do not care about her well being from the first GoT chapter onwards, maybe they did before that but it ended by the time we start reading.

[James Arryn]

I wasn't trying to dismiss the decade they spent together on the run. He did keep her alive and feed her. But he was still a selfish little shit who abused her. And by the time we catch up with them in the first Dany chapter of GoT it is quite clear that Viserys no longer cares about her, but only about his crown.

Illyrio later says that before her wedding he wanted to bust in her room and give her the old in-out, and that he actually did have to stop Viserys from going in their the night before to rape her, but only because he didnt want her to get pregnant early and mess up his plans. No no no, these two men do not care about her well being from the first GoT chapter onwards, maybe they did before that but it ended by the time we start reading.

Again, his being fucked up now does not mean:

1) he always was during the long time he cared for her, which you're still minimizing.

2) that he was part of the 'she'll die on the Dothraki Sea' thinking, which is both not in the text and completely contrary to his agenda.

[Cas Stark]

No, he isn't evil. I've always been puzzled by how much hate he gets.

He's an immature teenager who exerted control over his life in the only way he knew how...by controlling and showing his "power" over his sister. He's not very bright, or strategic, or nice.

He had a rough life after his family lost their kingdom, and his character was too weak to rise to the occasion....so he faltered and degenerated, unlike his sis, who was able to overcome the same or arguably a worse set of obstacles and rise above them.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

Considering Dany's visions about Viserys, in which he says she was meant to be his wife and have his children, I suppose that Viserys, in his own twisted way, had planned to have Dany as his Queen but the whole marriage to Drogo got in the way. Maybe he expected to reclaim Dany once he got his army. In fact, he threatens with taking Dany and leaving her son.

yeah, not sure how he expected that to work....'I'm gonna preform a C-Section with this sword, but I'm sure you will live through it, and will be able to come with me after."

I've never understood that.