A Sandor Clegane Discussion

[Curled Finger]

Sandor isn't done.   Way too much mention of him post disappearance.  Further, I believe he is the only character who knows both Stark sisters after their parents are killed.   He assumes something of a caregiver/protector role for both.   Sansa may even think of him as her only friend during her dark days at KL where as he proved himself to Arya enough for her to remove his name from her list.   It is a BIG DEAL that he is the only one in Westeros who knows Arya is alive as much as it is that Arya didn't kill him despite many opportunities to do so.   I don't like to bring show scenes into it too much, but in this past season Arya is hit repeatedly for her various statements denying her affection for "The Hound".   I believe his character is more tied to both Stark girls than any other living character in the series. (Sansa's Alayne chapter was creepy with her thinking in her own head of LF as her father-puke)    He's got lots to do for both.  I think the thing I look most forward to is his reunion with Arya.   Much is made of her dark path and the Ghost of High Heart's comments to her.  Sandor may be the only person who actually can help Arya find her lost humanity and trust and hope when she makes her way home.   Nymeria has been legend and dream for the vast majority of this story.   A guy known as The Hound may have much to do for a warg's abandoned wolf perhaps.  Hope he gets enough rest on the QI as he will no doubt need it soon.  

[A spoon of knife and fork]

I'd like him to be at peace and not be involved in the main story at all. I particularly dislike the idea of him showing up to "save" sansa from LF. I want sansa to save herself and become a strong player in her own right (possibly becoming darker, possibly not).

But, I think that his story is not done. I doubt that the gravedigger wojld have been shown to us just as a coda to his story - it's hinting at more to come

[TPTWP Timett]

If the Faith suspects who R Strong is they won't let Sandor fight him that's kinslaying besides Lancel will take RS down.

Edited for stupid mistakes

[Avlonnic]

 

I think Sandor will find plenty of chances to use his fighting skills, and soon.  

 

:fencing:

 

I agree.  I have no interest in CleganeBowl.  However, I don't think Quiet Isle will remain isolated and insulated much longer.  The isle can be reached by foot now if one knows the right path and that is without water freezing in the bay due to winter.  It can certainly be reached by boat(s).  It can be reached by air and it happens to have a herd of sheep and a lovely cave that might attract a dragon. 

 

I think it is likely war will come to the isle (whether it is ironborn or Aegon's forces or White Walkers) and Sandor and Elder Brother will no longer be able to keep their vows without watching everyone slaughtered.  EB swore not to kill again but would he allow the monks and the boys to die undefended?  I don't think he could stand aside.  He was too angry at Ser Quincy Cox for failing to defend the smallfolk during the rape of the Saltpans.  (And he certainly would fight against the White Walkers and their dead armies.)

 

Of course, one of the enormous advantages that Elder Brother has is information.  He gathers info from many sources and has a talent for instilling trust in near strangers to the point where they share their entire lives and all their secrets.  He is savvy enough to know what the disparate tidbits of information mean.  He has the potential to be a significant player in the next book - and that is before even disclosing his former identity.  He is one to watch.

 

Sorry, off topic.  Sandor is not done...but he is going to need a new helm.  Fortunately QI has lots of shiny swords, helms, bits or armor, and so forth.

[Annarkie]

An interesting thing I've just realized about Sandor is that he's never (on the page) hit a girl or woman (the axe to knock Arya out at the RW doesn't count, as it was to save her).

 

I only realized it on my 3rd re-read of the series and Winds chapters when I frowned at Tyrion slapping Penny more than once. The hound would never do that.

 

Even when Arya was going to bludgeon Sandor in the head with a rock, he didn't hit her. He just took it away and barked at her. *pun intended.*

[Morgul-Blade]

I simply cannot see how Clegane Bowl won't happen. We have an overt UnGregor and a sneaky Sandor, who if you're not paying close attention, you'd miss out that he's alive. 

 

The casual reader (and show watcher) will be stunned to see that battle between Cersei and the Faith's champions. It will be one of those jaw-dropping, epic moments. In fact, I'm bummed that I'm nerdy and have already contemplated the possibility, because I think the moment it happens would be awesome otherwise.

[Logicsbane]

If the Hound is done, so be it....but I would personally love to see him back in some capacity.

[YunoGasai]

Sandor's still alive as a gravedigger. As GRRM stated, he's such a grey character and he'll be more interesting to write...so i don't think that he's finished. 

 

I want Clegane Bowl to happen, but i don't think it will. He's now lame, he can't even dig a grave without struggling. 

 

Maybe, just maybe, Sandor will continue as a gravedigger and Sansa will die ad he'll dig her a grave... Or maybe Sansa will contnue living as Alayne and she'll become a Silent Sister. 

 

 

Sandor isn't done.   Way too much mention of him post disappearance.  Further, I believe he is the only character who knows both Stark sisters after their parents are killed.   He assumes something of a caregiver/protector role for both.   Sansa may even think of him as her only friend during her dark days at KL where as he proved himself to Arya enough for her to remove his name from her list.   It is a BIG DEAL that he is the only one in Westeros who knows Arya is alive as much as it is that Arya didn't kill him despite many opportunities to do so.   I don't like to bring show scenes into it too much, but in this past season Arya is hit repeatedly for her various statements denying her affection for "The Hound".   I believe his character is more tied to both Stark girls than any other living character in the series. (Sansa's Alayne chapter was creepy with her thinking in her own head of LF as her father-puke)    He's got lots to do for both.  I think the thing I look most forward to is his reunion with Arya.   Much is made of her dark path and the Ghost of High Heart's comments to her.  Sandor may be the only person who actually can help Arya find her lost humanity and trust and hope when she makes her way home.   Nymeria has been legend and dream for the vast majority of this story.   A guy known as The Hound may have much to do for a warg's abandoned wolf perhaps.  Hope he gets enough rest on the QI as he will no doubt need it soon.  

 

maybe the faith will help Arya just as it helped Sandor,...maybe she'll become a Silent Sister to 'serve the Stranger'. But i don't think that they'll have something to say with each other if they ever meet again. maybe just a nod with each other as a silent greeting...

[Brian Rioghbhardan]

Yeah and has anyone heard the theory that Cercei's prophesy regarding dying at the hands of the "valonqar" or "little brother" refers to Sandor? When I originally read the books I naturally assumed that she was mistaken in thinking little brother referred to Tyrion and that it OBVIOUSLY refered to Jamie as she keeps making mention about how if she was born a man she'd have inherited Castlely rock as she was born before Jamie. But it didn't occur to me that maybe this was too obvious and thus an intentional misdirection. I think a lot of people are looking for a showdown between Sandor and his zombie brother and Cerceis Trial by combat against the faith of the 7 make for a pretty good choice for this showdown since we know zombie Mountain will be fighting in it and sandor is part of the faith now. If the books take this direction then it would mean that cercei's life or death will come down to a fight between two brothers and if the "little brother" wins than cercei will die.

 

It kind of makes me think about how when it came to the "Perfumed Senschel" GRRM gave us an obvious choice(like tyrion) that for the same reasons was not the actual "perfumed senschel" and then he gave us several alternative that were not as obvious but still easy to pick up on. Which in reality was also likely misdirection to keep us from thinking it was Varys, who it likely does refer to.

[Tianzi]

On 5 listopada 2014 at 3:32 AM, Fool of a Took said:

1. Do you think Sandor's story is finished or do you think he'll come out of retirement? I don't just mean as another cameo, but actually factor back into the story in a somewhat major way?

 

 

 

 

2. Do you prefer his story to be finished or would you like him to make an impact?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

3. If you believe he will return, how do you think his storyline would play out? i.e. Fight Gregor, a little Sansa relationship, etc.

 

1. He is coming back if he really is the gravedigger, and that's a pretty small 'if'. He is a prominent character, and I don't particularly believe in being 'at rest' in Martin's book, especially when winter is coming.

2. I'd like him to make an impact, I like reading about him. Also if 'The Hound is dead', I'm really curious what kind of a person Sandor has became. It's hard to imagine him without his cynicism, foul mouth, hatred for knights and Gregor, etc.

Maybe we could even get his POV? That could turn out really fantastic or really disastrous.

3. I don't really believe in Cleganebowl, especially if it were to take place at Cersei's trial.

First, I just don't see him parading into KL when he is a wanted fugitive, I also really don't see him as the Faith's champion. Second, I don't think it can happen so soon, since one of the contestants logically has to die and I don't see going all the way to bring them both back (in the narrative sense) and build the suspense about both, just to immediately flush one of them down. I also don't buy Sandor as valonqar, it would be really anticlimactic if just any technical younger brother (or even younger sibling) in wide Westeros could do the deal). Plus I don't think he actually has that much against Cersei, as far as he voiced Lannister-related opinions, he seemed to have grown tired of Joff and really despise Tyrion (even before the marrying Sansa business) and not have much to say about the queen, even if he was initially described as her dog.

(although I dunno who could be Gregor's opponent, in the show I'd guess Lancel, but it doesn't seem so in the books)

However if UnGregor really is created to wipe the country of Cersei's enemies (yeah, he has a long way to go) and it's not some bs Qyburn is using to conceal the fact that we have a zombie here, Sansa probably is on the list. However despite being sure that Sandor and Sansa are to meet again, I wouldn't bet if his next arc will be about her, he is proven to work well with unexpected characters (like Arya) and, taking his limp into account, I see him involved into something in direct proximity, maybe BwB stuff.

Also, I don't know if Strong would still count as Gregor to him.

And with his injuries, I really don't see Sandor winning, and I'd say he should survive the series (you don't give someone two death scenes)

Straight-up love story with Sansa? Well, I forgave the guy being attracted to a 12-year-old which tells much about how much I like him, but I really hope they meet again after she is considerably older.