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About Tianzi

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  1. Tianzi

    cersei and tywin

    He knew that on what basis? Tysha wasn't an example and there's no mention in Tyrion's backstory of his whoring really causing anyone any trouble (contrary to Robert, for example). Tywin is known to have bullying Tyrion based on almost whatever Tyrion wanted to do, even wanting to travel. But sure, we can go with the 'bitching that his son won't marry and give heirs, even though he's been a Kingsguard for 15+ years and Tywin himself had over two decades to remarry and make more heirs" example instead.
  2. Tianzi

    cersei and tywin

    I don't think Cersei is particularly reliable with telling the truth, especially when she wants to shift the blame away from herself, but: a. Robert is never shown to be too careful or consistent with his opinions either, especially when drunk. b. Tywin is a huge hypocrite. I wouldn't put past him telling Joffrey one thing and himself doing something completely different (just like with Tyrion and prostitutes). And as for the Greyjoys, they remained to be a threat indeed, so it's possible that Tywin could've predicted it when Robert didn't, and kick then down some more.
  3. Tianzi

    Who will Sansa marry?

    On the annulment: it probably works or doesn't work, completely depending on who is concerned (for example I easily imagine Tywin not really bothering with annulling Tyrion's marriage to Tysha, because hey, a commoner versus Lord Lannister, is that even a question?) and that's why LF goes straight for the much surer and more classic method of dissolving a marriage - Tyrion's death. Although the other/supporting reason might be a desire to keep Sansa more dependant on his power (she already is, as suspect of Joff's murder, but some of the Crown enemies could not have that much problem with that) - if she believes that there's absolutely no way to free herself from being Tyrion's wife and find protection from another man, she is his. And on that note - who Sansa will marry and who Alayne Stone will marry might be two completely dfferent questions. And it might generate some great irony for LF - if it turns out that Sansa will continue to live as his bastard daughter, he will be unable to marry her himself.
  4. Tianzi

    Who will Sansa marry?

    You probably should wait with that until the reasoning in your posts has the quality to back it up. Martin is a 21st century writer and a self-proclaimed feminist. Yes, he does describe a patriarchal society. Yes, he has ideas like a girl falling in love with her rapist. But he creates a variety of female characters, whose actions, thinking and decision-making (of differing quality - no risk of 'positive discrimination with Cersei onboard) affect the plot and shape their own lives. Should be obvious, but really isn't in many works. He gives them identities and while they have way less institutional power than men, they take actions of their own - within the boundaries of the patriarchal system or outside of it - and their actions matter. He also usually doesn't shy away for depicting problems of patriarchal (and feudal) society, rather than giving us 'it is Medieval-ish world, roll with it' mindset. To put it simply: mistreatment of women is portrayed as bad, bad thing. Even if it's common. Even if it happens to unsympathetic characters like Cersei or Lysa Arryn. To put it even more simply: Brienne good. Randyll Tarly a dick. Of course, Martin doesn't sugarcoat how going against the established system can get disastrous consequences either (you can get the impression that stability > morals). He usually explores issues like class division, gender roles, culture clash, tradition vs innovation, morals of ruling, etc. multidimensionally. So while some invididuals of the 21st century, of both genders, seem not to get that, 'feminist message' =/= 'the female protagonist waves a sword, opens her own firm and castrates all males'. So, back to Sansa, who has indeed been mostly a pawn and one of the most passive character in the books, that's part of why I want her to become more of her own person and shape her destiny, and not be a prop in Tyrion's character arc. And if she has to stay married to him, I want it to be her own decision with some agenda and not 'the prize obediently returned to her (male) owner'. If she marries someone less narratively important than her, she will still not own land (lol), but her storyline will be about her.
  5. I'm looking at his conversation with Sansa. He wanted her out of an engagement with someone who proved to be a little shit and out of an environment that would've been dangerous. And he wanted someone 'brave and gentle' for her. Arranged marriage, yes, of course, but they cared (at least until the war came and there was less room for compromises), as you put it, for the groom's character. I don't see anything pointing out at not caring about the character. Both Brandon and especially Ned were rather decent. Hoster was a prick and indeed cruel to Lysa, but as I said he made her go for an old man when he believed it was only as good as she could do. Had she been not defiled, he would find a better match for her. On that note, let's ponder about how the unhappiness in the marriage in Lysa and Arryn's marriage turned out. And how Robert and Cersei's did. And what Olenna Tyrell did when she found out about Joffrey's character. Those are the extremes, but generally some peace and stability in marriages and the Houses' interests came together.
  6. So, nothing about breaking hymen. You get dirty and your ass hurts. That's the reason they bothered. Doesn't seem like a standard procedure. And yet we got Cersei, so it's obviously not very well checked. It's a rapist, not a raper. Joffrey doesn't rap. No, since hymens being broken are a normal occurence with young noblewomen, there would be just no sex ruled. Joffrey probably couldn't lie convincingly. Also, if Sansa's hymen is probably not broken. If that's the case and Joffrey claims sex, Cersei is exposed. Nobody mentions Septa Mordane's failure. Because there was no failure. Nobody mentioned that Sansa did anything controversial. Because Sansa didn't do anything controversial. Sansa and Arya hated and blamed each other after that and Ned and Mordane were involved. If there was anything to criticize in Sansa's decision to go off with Joffrey, it would have come up. If there was any danger to Joffrey in this affair in the first place, she definitely wouldn't have done it. Listen, this is discussing a fanfic. There are multiple arguments against your hypothesis, but more importantly there are no arguments for it - we've all read the books and that plot just didn't exist. It's like saying that the forest was full of alien spies and Sansa and Joffrey encountered them. And that it doesn't come in the text because the aliens wiped their memory out. From the narrative point of view it also has no right to exist: it's an incident in the past, Joffrey is dead already, there's enough of conflict between Sansa and Cersei, it wouldn't shed any new light on anyone's actions, it won't lead to any plot twist. It's fanfiction that has literally nothing to do with the actual text.
  7. ...Lady Ermesande? (well, technically speaking probably someone else 'married her off', but the marriage was forced by Tywin). I did not say he typically would, I said it would be an option. Also, that might be an age when (some) girls are able to get pregnant, but their bodies aren't typically well developed to give birth. Well, not a common knowledge in this society, but then again, some noblemen could listen to their maesters. Ned surely wanted to wait because of his children happiness, Tywin surely waited with Cersei because he was fishing for the best match possible. The 'typical' nobles probably fall in somewhere in-between. Even Hoster Tully gives Lysa to an old dude because she's defiled and not because he only thinks about an alliance. Yep, he is a rapist and a murderer. But he does his best to act decent as Sansa's husband. It was a wartime and everyone was after Winterfell. I think Sansa would've been treated similarly if she was 9 or 10 yo in terms of getting married off.
  8. Well, Tyrion. And If I'm not mistaken, we don't see any other decent nobleman figure married to a girl this age. Yes, 12 is age when getting married off doesn't raise to many eyebrows. However... ...the division seems to be clear. Powerful families, when decision-making isn't done by the Boltons, Viserys or Tywin Lannister (who also married off a baby), tend to do exactly that - wait. Robert and Ned also intended to wait with Sansa and Joff marriage. Being married off at early teens or even before that clearly isn't seen as good for the involved.
  9. Yes, Tyrion was ill-equipped, I was talkind about age difference in general. Willas Tyrell would probably handle it better. Sansa is 12 when she marries Tyrion. Lysa was 15, Cat was 17, Cersei also 17-ish, Roslin Frey similarly, Margaery - considered the most eligible bride in the kingdom at her time - 16 (maybe 15 when she married Renly). Lyanna was 14 and still unmarried. Asha is in her twenties. Elia Martell was 15 and unmarried in Cersei's flashback. I'd say at least recently, the standard in-story was NOT 12-13 (only for betrothal). Daenerys is an exception, but he's given away by Viserys, who makes clear how much he cares about her as anything other than a bargaining chip.
  10. Says who? No, seriously, what basis you have for that statement? She was willing to make that bet on Marg, who was older, had ridden a lot more, and could have possibly also not be a virgin, but in Sansa it's just plain stupid. Not to mention that later that 'proof' against Marg will be seen as rather weak as well and that it took an order of religious fanatics for it to even be a thing. And that Cersei herself fucked Jaime on the morning of her wedding day and years before. So yeah, I'm going to say they don't make that much fuss about hymens. Because it was a butcher's boy and noone gives a tutu about a butcher's boy. Ned's daughters are another thing, which is shown as he's letting Arya to go unpunished after raising a hand at the crown prince. He would not declare Joff a rapist (and that would not cause succession crisis), he would tell Cersei she's full of bs and he'd return to drinking. Only there's no scheme. If there was anything remotely dubious about Sansa going off with Joffrey alone, we would have: - Septa Mordane bitching about it after, which Sansa would include in her POV while remembering it - maybe Ned giving Sansa a reprimand about her recklessness - Sansa in her POV either feeling guilty while remembering it, or lamenting why the adults see faults with her innocent walk with her sweet, sweet prince - most glaringly, Cersei herself going off at Sansa (as she was quite clearly willing to go off at anyone remotely 'guilty' [or, in Lady's case, not even that] of Joff's harm) being a little tramp going around with boys so she's unsuitable for be a royal bride. This is the woman who loudly proposed cutting Arya's hand off, for chrissake. Renly doesn't give a tutu about what he has to. Whoever is the legal king, be it Joffrey or Stannis, he clearly remains an usurper and is fine with that. Only there was no attempt in the books.
  11. Tianzi

    Who will Sansa marry?

    I was half-joking and this is a question for a broad discussion, but overall, given his creation of female characters (especially given the standards in fantasy when he was starting) and changes in subsequent books, I'm going to say mostly yes. Females of what species? I think spider females were fine. What? Describing realities and message are two different things. First, I'm taking it with a grain of salt, second, he could've changed his mind ('gardening and whatsoever), third it might just mean they just make it to the climax of the story. Still more than a bit of a wish fulfilment, if she stops resenting him, starts respecting him and puts out for him, lol. Yeah, I'm not deeming it impossible (as I've already said), but frankly I doubt it, as thus far Martin has been pretty unsentimental about how women who have eyes (and don't desperately need gold) see Tyrion. And I say that that 'be careful what you wish for' aspect with wanting a gorgeous young wife was one of the primary narrative goals of having this marriage in the first place, and it has been fulfilled. Martin put so much effort into creating atmosphere of ultimate discomfort and gloominess between Sansa and Tyrion, that I honestly doubt he'll bend the narrative to try to heal that. It would just contradict what was doing with the characters. But yeah, of course, staying formally married or/and having some kind of a deal/partnership between these two is not out of question.
  12. Tianzi

    Who will Sansa marry?

    Yup. I'd add that Sandor and Sansa have canonical hots for each other and actual personal connection, so not in the marriage department, but in the romance department this pairing seems just more valid. That said, he's still in his twenties while she's 12 (Not 13, folks. Joffrey turns 13 on the day Tyrion is separated from Sansa, and Sandor had left earlier. They were both after a 12 yo.), and has said things like 'Should have fucked her bloody.' So I'm not going to call 'healthy!' on this one. But yeah, he also just fits some kind of a fantasy, while Tyrion... has female fans of course but I have yet to come across one claiming he is sexy. I think that's also one of the reasons why SanSan seems to* have mostly female fans, while Tyrion's supporters (fugly but kind guy, 'deserves' the beautiful girl because he treated her well) seem* to be mostly male. *Yeah, just an impression, haven't done any statistics.
  13. Tianzi

    Who will Sansa marry?

    What an unfeminist message. Maybe George will take this chance to correct it. Or that's just what he's telling her. Nice spoiler Mr. Mart... Oh wait, just another fan wishful thinking. Well, if we are fans of ASOIAF we have to roll with the disturbed anyway. It's just a part of the deal. I mean, look at the two protagonists' ancestry. Joffrey's parentage looks downright modest compared to it.
  14. Tianzi

    Who will Sansa marry?

    Oh yeah, let's not ignore that. Tywin is no longer there and Tysha's case is everpresent in Tyrion's head, so it's quite possible it's meant to be more than a sad backstory.
  15. Tianzi

    Who will Sansa marry?

    ...Are you seriously asking me why the fandom of ASOIAF supports messed-up? Haven't been there, but I just love how every single Sansa related thread boils down to one thing...