A Sandor Clegane Discussion

[Mad Madam Mim]

"The Lord of Light is not done with Joffrey's Hound, it would seem."

Unless the Lord of light's intentions was for Sandor to get raging drunk while on a quick jolly around the Riverlands, to then live a dull life digging graves, I think there is more to come.

[Boarsbane]

Unless the Lord of light's intentions was for Sandor to get raging drunk while on a quick jolly around the Riverlands, to then live a dull life digging graves, I think there is more to come.

Or he was just a better fighter than Beric and the Lord of Light wasn't involved

[Lady Beefheart]

This is ASoIaF.

Nobody gets peace, least of all the reader.

[Mad Madam Mim]

Or he was just a better fighter than Beric and the Lord of Light wasn't involved

Of course that could be the case and whilst it is possible that the Gravedigger was just a happy Easter egg from GRRM, there are several other snippets that to me suggest his Sandor is not as 'at rest' on the QI as the Eb would have us believe:

- the Gravedigger flings dirt at Brienne's feet. The ol' Sandor who detests knights is still in there, the Qi has not tamed the beast

- Stranger, who is synonymous with Sandor's state of mind is not a happy pony in the QI and has bitten the ear off a brother.

- Meribald quote: "Dog barked. "You see? Even Dog was bored."

- Sandor is very prevalent in Sansa's chapters in the Vale. She dreams of him, compares other men to him, moons over a kiss that never happened. GRRm is not letting Sandor be at rest, other characters keep mentioning him.

-The EB also gave Brienne a major hint of Sandor's whereabouts and Brienne has links to the hounds helm at the moment and the Stark girls. I do wonder if all of this is setting up their stories to come to a screeching collision at some point once Brienne gets her lightbulb moment and realises what the EB was actually telling her (but this is only a thought for now).

[The Rat Kook]

If it was just a case of a me wanting him to get revenge on Gregor, but then he finds peace on the Quiet Isle instead, I might be fine with it. Eventually.

If it was just a case of a me wanting him to take his relationship with Sansa further, but then he finds peace on the Quiet Isle instead, I might be fine with that too. Eventually.

But Sandor's pretty unique in that he's got BOTH of those goals to fulfill, and then he found peace on the Quiet Isle instead. On the one hand, him finding a tranquil escape from all of it is arguably both satisfying and poignant. I see the value in that, I really do. But there's just too much I want him to come back for. I'm honestly struggling to decide if it's good story or bad story to have him remain there.

Okay, it's not bad, but... I'm a greedy jerk. Please give me more, George.

[LongRider]

If it was just a case of a me wanting him to get revenge on Gregor, but then he finds peace on the Quiet Isle instead, I might be fine with it. Eventually.

If it was just a case of a me wanting him to take his relationship with Sansa further, but then he finds peace on the Quiet Isle instead, I might be fine with that too. Eventually.

But Sandor's unique in that he's got BOTH of those goals to fulfill, and then he found peace on the Quiet Isle instead. On the one hand I love that he's found peace, I really do. But there's just too much I want him to come back for. I'm honestly struggling to decide if it's good story or bad story to have him remain there.

Okay I guess it's not bad, but... I am greedy and self entitled. Please give me more, George.

I don't expect Sandor will get revenge on Gregor Clegane as Gregor Clegane is really dead, we saw him die. Ser Robert Strong is assumed (and the evidence is >ahem< strong that RS is either made up of the re-animated corpse of Gregor or, parts of that corpse and others, we don't yet. So as far as I can tell, fighting Ser Robert Strong does not equal fighting Gregor. Gregor is dead.

Also, in my view, there would no need for Sandor to fight RS with fire as he fought and conquered fire when he bested Ser Beric Dondarrion. Even with his shield and arm afire, he still killed him, so his besting of fire is done as well.

The question with Sansa is still open however, and the EB hinted that he had heard quite alot about Sansa from Sandor, but like a good honest cleric, he's keeping that info private.

A novice in a religious order has not committed to the that order. Some novices wash out and I expect that the Gravedigger will do just that. By then the EB will have fulfilled his elder brother role and accept Sandor's choice.

[SummerDance]

Or he was just a better fighter than Beric and the Lord of Light wasn't involved

Beric was not only defeated, but his burning sword was broken.

[The Rat Kook]

I don't expect Sandor will get revenge on Gregor Clegane as Gregor Clegane is really dead, we saw him die. Ser Robert Strong is assumed (and the evidence is >ahem< strong that RS is either made up of the re-animated corpse of Gregor or, parts of that corpse and others, we don't yet. So as far as I can tell, fighting Ser Robert Strong does not equal fighting Gregor. Gregor is dead.

Also, in my view, there would no need for Sandor to fight RS with fire as he fought and conquered fire when he bested Ser Beric Dondarrion. Even with his shield and arm afire, he still killed him, so his besting of fire is done as well.

The question with Sansa is still open however, and the EB hinted that he had heard quite alot about Sansa from Sandor, but like a good honest cleric, he's keeping that info private.

A novice in a religious order has not committed to the that order. Some novices wash out and I expect that the Gravedigger will do just that. By then the EB will have fulfilled his elder brother role and accept Sandor's choice.

Yeah that's very true about Gregor. As soon as Robert Strong happened I really should have taken the hint and accepted that the possible revenge plot is stopped in its tracks right there. Although, who knows how much of Gregor remains in Robert Strong? I can't remember all that the text says on the matter so I have to do some more reading there. Also, "Robert Strong" is such a fairy tale knight name. I'd love to see the Hound take out his hatred of knights on such a character.

But yeah I'm mainly grasping at straws now, I accept that you're almost certainly right. Here's hoping Sansa plot still happens.

[Prince of the North]

I believe Sandor is the gravedigger and that his story in ASoIaF is not done. I think he'll still have his confrontation with his brother (or what's left of him) but his motivation for doing so will have completely changed...and that makes all the difference ;)

[Dya of Oldstones]

Yeah that's very true about Gregor. As soon as Robert Strong happened I really should have taken the hint and accepted that the possible revenge plot is stopped in its tracks right there. Although, who knows how much of Gregor remains in Robert Strong? I can't remember all that the text says on the matter so I have to do some more reading there. Also, "Robert Strong" is such a fairy tale knight name. I'd love to see the Hound take out his hatred of knights on such a character.

But yeah I'm mainly grasping at straws now, I accept that you're almost certainly right. Here's hoping Sansa plot still happens.

I was a Cleganebowl enthusiast early on but quickly gave that up, especially since it was Oberyn who actually killed Gregor and RS is only there because of Qyburn. If Qyburn dies, then all bets are off. All my favorite crackpot theories about him are along those lines, such as RS going rogue afterward but looks like we have to wait for the next book to find that out. He may be somebody else's "monster" than Sandor's to deal with at this point.

Back to Sandor; the gist of it is another of GRRM's take on people only wanting revenge, and Elder Brother mentioning how empty that can be...Lady Stoneheart being an example of that. It appears to lead to Sandor being able to flip that internal switch of his from revenge to love (not just romantic, but that too) and serving others based on that.

[ForgottenKnight]

I think he's done for the most part until,

A. It's time for all major characters to head up to the Wall.

B. Robert Strong is revealed as the zombie/Frankenstien Gregor.

[Minuteman]

I don't think he's done. One of the few consistent traits that he has shown is a desire to be recognized for who he is and not for whose brother he is. "The Hound" is dead. However, someone pretending to be The Hound committed atrocity at Saltpans and now Sandor Clegane is blamed for it. I suspect that he will go looking for the impostor to clear his name (not knowing Brienne has already killed him) which leads him to the BwB and by consequence to LS/unCat, Brienne, and Jaime with word that Arya is still alive and well. He doesn't know that Arya went to Braavos but likely presumes that she continued on to the Vale so they will be released to find her. There they will find Sansa instead.

[Balerion the kitten]

I prefer him remaining on quiet isle. It's nice to know that he's alive and has given up on violence and revenge. Some will know, some won't. There's no need for him continue his story, he's happy (I think). Let it remain that way.

[Dya of Oldstones]

I prefer him remaining on quiet isle. It's nice to know that he's alive and has given up on violence and revenge. Some will know, some won't. There's no need for him continue his story, he's happy (I think). Let it remain that way.

Problem is, we're not getting any indication that he's actually at peace and even Elder Brother simply says he is "at rest." Between Stranger biting a monk's ear off and him tossing a shovel full of dirt at Brienne's feet, he's looking far from peaceful so I expect him back into the story soon. Sure with some changes to his outlook and recalibrating his direction in life but back.

Slightly OT, but I don't see Bran being stuck to a tree either, but in both cases I see that staying out out of the action and hiding away from the world can be just as counterproductive as acting first and regretting later. In both cases, they need to get back into the world and apply what they learned.

[Mad Madam Mim]

Problem is, we're not getting any indication that he's actually at peace and even Elder Brother simply says he is "at rest." Between Stranger biting a monk's ear off and him tossing a shovel full of dirt at Brienne's feet, he's looking far from peaceful so I expect him back into the story soon. Sure with some changes to his outlook and recalibrating his direction in life but back.

Slightly OT, but I don't see Bran being stuck to a tree either, but in both cases I see that staying out out of the action and hiding away from the world can be just as counterproductive as acting first and regretting later. In both cases, they need to get back into the world and apply what they learned.

I agree, Sandor has unfinished business in Westeros, he just needed a time out whilst he 'gentles the rage inside him'. Stranger refused to be gelded and used for a Plough Horse, and I suspect his master is following suit.

[Harry the Hair]

He's bound to return, the war of the three queens is coming and Sandor's got to keep the Little Bird safe. :P

[LongRider]

I was a Cleganebowl enthusiast early on but quickly gave that up, especially since it was Oberyn who actually killed Gregor and RS is only there because of Qyburn. If Qyburn dies, then all bets are off. All my favorite crackpot theories about him are along those lines, such as RS going rogue afterward but looks like we have to wait for the next book to find that out. He may be somebody else's "monster" than Sandor's to deal with at this point.

Back to Sandor; the gist of it is another of GRRM's take on people only wanting revenge, and Elder Brother mentioning how empty that can be...Lady Stoneheart being an example of that. It appears to lead to Sandor being able to flip that internal switch of his from revenge to love (not just romantic, but that too) and serving others based on that.

I think there are many ways Qyburn and Cersei's monster can go wrong! Doesn't have to include Sandor tho.

He is learning how to serve others, in the litchyard and the kitchen. His service with mealtime can be contrasted with his fighting/killing time, instead of serving death, he's serving the nourishment needed for life.

I don't think he's done. One of the few consistent traits that he has shown is a desire to be recognized for who he is and not for whose brother he is. "The Hound" is dead. However, someone pretending to be The Hound committed atrocity at Saltpans and now Sandor Clegane is blamed for it. I suspect that he will go looking for the impostor to clear his name (not knowing Brienne has already killed him) which leads him to the BwB and by consequence to LS/unCat, Brienne, and Jaime with word that Arya is still alive and well. He doesn't know that Arya went to Braavos but likely presumes that she continued on to the Vale so they will be released to find her. There they will find Sansa instead.

I like your thinking!

Problem is, we're not getting any indication that he's actually at peace and even Elder Brother simply says he is "at rest." Between Stranger biting a monk's ear off and him tossing a shovel full of dirt at Brienne's feet, he's looking far from peaceful so I expect him back into the story soon. Sure with some changes to his outlook and recalibrating his direction in life but back.

Slightly OT, but I don't see Bran being stuck to a tree either, but in both cases I see that staying out out of the action and hiding away from the world can be just as counterproductive as acting first and regretting later. In both cases, they need to get back into the world and apply what they learned.

Great points! Yes, what is the use of learning new skills and life outlooks if one can't apply them in the real world? (and I don't want Bran to become a tree! :'( )

I agree, Sandor has unfinished business in Westeros, he just needed a time out whilst he 'gentles the rage inside him'. Stranger refused to be gelded and used for a Plough Horse, and I suspect his master is following suit.

The Dog is bored on the Quiet Isle. However, all that gravedigging, walking up and down the hilly isle and listening to harp music are good things, but their shelf life only lasts so long.

[LongRider]

He's bound to return, the war of the three queens is coming and Sandor's got to keep the Little Bird safe. :P

I think Sandor will find plenty of chances to use his fighting skills, and soon.

:fencing:

[Rider on the Storm]

I'm pretty sure he's not done at all, can't see him just staying there digging holes. He is a man of action and I think his opinion about gods and everything will never allow him to embrace this new "life". I'm also almost sure that he's going to meet Sansa again, but I can hardly imagine how. I mean, the Island is enough close to the Vale, but still ... I wonder if they're gonna meet accidentally or on purpose, and even if I can pretty much imagine Sansa's reaction, I wonder how Sandor is gonna feel about it.

I kinda hope he doesn't fight Robert Strong, because I really fear the outcome...

[jakmanuk]

To be honest I think Sansa will end up as the Queen of Westeros so maybe Sandor comes back and either becomes a member of the kings guard for her? Or even just gets knighted.

I wouldn't mind Sandor living in peace but I definitely want to see more of him