A Sandor Clegane Discussion

[Mycah Bluth]

I would be really intrigued to know more about Cersei's one-on-one interactions with the Hound. Don't think we'll ever get those, though.

[Booknerd2]

I always guessed that as long as her brat was satisfied with his services and company, he was left alone. Also, that as far as crap and manipulating that she pulls with others later like Lancel and Kettlblack,etc., I always felt that she just knew not to try that stuff on him. That he was smart and it wasn't going to work. Maybe even some respect.

[Robb_Warged]

So in another of the millions of threads about Sandor in these forums someone was actually able to provide a quote from Elio in comments from his youtube channel that Sandor is in fact the gravedigger and that will be revealed when the books "catch up to us" st some point. so there you have it.

You have a link by chance?

[Annara Snow]

With you on this. It's kind of weird to hear all these people so adamant that now that he's on the Quiet Isle, his story is over, he's found peace and he's just going to stay there digging graves for the rest of his life. I….don't think that's a credit to him. He's still a relatively young guy, has a strong personality and survival instinct, and his horse is making a damn racket. I bet his gut is telling him to go get both Stark sisters come hell or high water.

Sansa is at the onset of her sexual maturity, awareness of how she can manipulate people, and she distrusts everyone around her; however, I believe she is also beginning to understand the nature of her feelings towards Sandor. Sandor is, presumably, struggling to come to peace with his past and his desire to live meaningfully after being defined by his ruthlessness for so long (he was showing signs of that before his injury, i.e. the village). Having them both returned to each other at this point would mean they'd have to unpack what they meant to one another in King's Landing, and what they'll mean to each other now, after all that's happened. Which is awesome even if it doesn't mean the launch of the good ship SanSan. Personally that thing Cersei says out of the blue about Sansa "singing to the Stranger, begging for his kiss" before the end is all kinds of innuendo to me.

One thing that always struck me right in the gut is how very symmetrical Sandor's status was with Sansa's. When he described her as a little bird, "singing the songs they taught you," he could just as well be talking about himself, singing the songs of brutality and bloodlust that had to become his raison d'être for him to carve out a place in KL.

:agree:

[Dorian Martell]

You have a link by chance?

In fact I do

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/120349-ser-sandor-clegane/?p=6445448

[Robb_Warged]

In fact I do

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/120349-ser-sandor-clegane/?p=6445448

Ah thank you!

[fellow reader]

I have heard this before, but i have a major problem with it. Sandor had a bunch of talks with Sansa after Ned was betrayed and beheaded about liars in Kings Landing. Why did he never mention this to her then and there? Telling her later after he had ample time and reason to inform her of such things before makes no sense.

Sandor told her everyone at court was a liar. They all acted still relatively nice towards Sansa till Ned got beheaded and all pretense stopped.

Sandor did not know the extent of LFs betrayal, that he had led Ned and the Starks and Tullys to their doom since before the start of the books(Jon Arryns death and the letter blaming the Lannisters as first step).

He just witnessed that

-Littlefinger came in with Ned

-Ned seemed to think the Goldcloaks would obey him

-LF was not surprised as they turned against Neds men instead

-LF held a dagger at Neds throat and gloated "I did warn you not to trust me, you know."

Sansa was not under LFs control in Kings Landing like she is now, so at that time LF was just one liar amongst all the others at court and there was no necessity to single his betrayal out from all of Cerseis helpers. LF asked Cersei to marry Sansa to him as Ned was in the black cells, but I do not think that Sandor knows this, he was not always next to Cersei, for example he was not there as she gave Jeyne Poole to LF. Apart from asking Cersei just once(the open leering at Sansa at court was probably around that time and again Sandor was not there as that happened), LF did not make another move to get her and had kept his distance since the rejection till he had her on his ship in order to not attract attention to himself when they start searching for her.

Sandor simply could not have known that Sansa would end up in her current situation.

[Dya of Oldstones]

Sandor told her everyone at court was a liar. They all acted still relatively nice towards Sansa till Ned got beheaded and all pretense stopped.

Sandor did not know the extent of LFs betrayal, that he had led Ned and the Starks and Tullys to their doom since before the start of the books(Jon Arryns death and the letter blaming the Lannisters as first step).

He just witnessed that

-Littlefinger came in with Ned

-Ned seemed to think the Goldcloaks would obey him

-LF was not surprised as they turned against Neds men instead

-LF held a dagger at Neds throat and gloated "I did warn you not to trust me, you know."

Sansa was not under LFs control in Kings Landing like she is now, so at that time LF was just one liar amongst all the others at court and there was no necessity to single his betrayal out from all of Cerseis helpers. LF asked Cersei to marry Sansa to him as Ned was in the black cells, but I do not think that Sandor knows this, he was not always next to Cersei, for example he was not there as she gave Jeyne Poole to LF. Apart from asking Cersei just once(the open leering at Sansa at court was probably around that time and again Sandor was not there as that happened), LF did not make another move to get her and had kept his distance since the rejection till he had her on his ship in order to not attract attention to himself when they start searching for her.

Sandor simply could not have known that Sansa would end up in her current situation.

:agree: Also agree with the gist of Micah Bluth's post quoted by Annara.

The Hound, like the Stark direwolves is great at sniffing out lies and even danger, but getting to the truth is the other half of the story. Part of his problem and Sansa's too is they're both relatively isolated which is something that abusers of LF's ilk thrive on. That being said, what info a certain gravedigger may be getting from Elder Brother could give him enough to start putting puzzle pieces together.

[Mycah Bluth]

I always guessed that as long as her brat was satisfied with his services and company, he was left alone. Also, that as far as crap and manipulating that she pulls with others later like Lancel and Kettlblack,etc., I always felt that she just knew not to try that stuff on him. That he was smart and it wasn't going to work. Maybe even some respect.

That seems like the essence of their relationship. An excellent conjecture. And going back before Joffrey was born, I was under the impression he was her sworn shield for a while after proving himself in the Sack of Kings' Landing.

There would be very little plot work involved in getting Sansa to the Quiet Isle. The way I see it playing out is:

Sansa sells out Littlefinger to Nestor Royce, then makes plans to reunite with Rickon at Winterfell. However, Sweetrobin is extremely ill from Littlefinger's poisoning attempt, and so the first stop has to be (with Myranda and Mya) to the Quiet Isle, where the healing powers of its patriarch have been reported. While meeting with the Elder Brother, Sansa realizes that he already knows about her, and becomes suspicious. Her suspicions turn to shock when the Isle’s gravedigger reveals himself as Sandor Clegane. Sandor (probably blatantly breaking the rules about no talking outside of confession) tells Sansa about Jaime, Brienne, the quest to find her and Arya, and how he came to be on the isle. One can imagine Sansa would be even more drawn to him by that.

[Booknerd2]

That seems like the essence of their relationship. An excellent conjecture. And going back before Joffrey was born, I was under the impression he was her sworn shield for a while after proving himself in the Sack of Kings' Landing.

There would be very little plot work involved in getting Sansa to the Quiet Isle. The way I see it playing out is:

Sansa sells out Littlefinger to Nestor Royce, then makes plans to reunite with Rickon at Winterfell. However, Sweetrobin is extremely ill from Littlefinger's poisoning attempt, and so the first stop has to be (with Myranda and Mya) to the Quiet Isle, where the healing powers of its patriarch have been reported. While meeting with the Elder Brother, Sansa realizes that he already knows about her, and becomes suspicious. Her suspicions turn to shock when the Isle’s gravedigger reveals himself as Sandor Clegane. Sandor (probably blatantly breaking the rules about no talking outside of confession) tells Sansa about Jaime, Brienne, the quest to find her and Arya, and how he came to be on the isle. One can imagine Sansa would be even more drawn to him by that.

Well, I am sure he was observed for awhile, also to make sure he wasn't similar to Gregor. But he must have been with Joffrey since he was younger, and as long as the pampered prince gelled with him….because the minute Joffrey whined he didn't like him, there so would have been someone else put forth as a replacement.

The funny thing is, you would think, they would put another (rolls eyes) Lannister relation in just to dole out the honored positions, but there must have been a bunch of things they saw in Sandor that were positive for them.

Mainly, that Joff seemed to like him, as much for him, as he could sort of like anybody.

I never dwelled on Sandor possibly guarding Cersei previously. I would think she might not do that, because if someone was up her ass guarding her all the time, and she knows he has sense and may catch on because he is not a dolt, that it would make her rendezvous times with Jaime difficult.

For the other stuff. I am not ruling out the QI, and I think there is more going on there then the snapshot we get when Brienne goes. Many have speculated Sansa and/or SW going there.

I know some of the people in the Riverlands are characters that are going to converge and it has started and been going on for awhile now. And since many of the Riverlands people share the common link of looking for Sansa, they are linked to her Vale situation too, depending on what plays out.

I just wonder how much longer Stranger is going to last there. LOL! He really wants off the Isle!

My other bit of wonder is if they reunite there, what do they both do next? How do they link up with others? And they are two of the Westeros Most Wanted, which can't help.

They are tough. I can see the A to Z for them, that I believe is going to happen, and there is evidence. It is the B to Y that I flip-flop on.

[Trogdor Targaryen]

Well, I am sure he was observed for awhile, also to make sure he wasn't similar to Gregor. But he must have been with Joffrey since he was younger, and as long as the pampered prince gelled with him….because the minute Joffrey whined he didn't like him, there so would have been someone else put forth as a replacement.

The funny thing is, you would think, they would put another (rolls eyes) Lannister relation in just to dole out the honored positions, but there must have been a bunch of things they saw in Sandor that were positive for them.

Didn't Cersei say that she wished Sandor Clegane was still around for Tommen to squire for? Considering how Cersei wants Tommen to be just like Joffery, could it be possible that that was the type of relationship Joffery had with the hound?

[LongRider]

She was thinking of Sandor as a Master of Arms type to displace Loras. She didn't like the admiration Tommen was showing for Loras. And I do think it's mentioned that he was Cersei's former sworn shield.

[TheLittlebird]

Maybe its selfish but Sandor is one of the best characters and an ending like that is not befitting of his awesomeness. I hope he doesn't..''find peace at the Quiet Isle''...I hope he plans to but elder brother is one of the men littlefinger hires at the end of the last book and then informs Sandor that Sansa is at the vale, and then he heads to the vale to rescue Sansa and turn his rage in the right direction- Littlefinger and ironically become her true knight That would be epic but I don't think that's GRRMs style, its more the crap Disney has been spewing to us womenfolk for the past 70 years! We shall see....

[Stannis'_Barber]

I like the idea of him finding a home at Winterfell, but something tells me if he were to return he would end up dying "again". Most likely in a heroic way.

[LongRider]

Maybe its selfish but Sandor is one of the best characters and an ending like that is not befitting of his awesomeness. I hope he doesn't..''find peace at the Quiet Isle''...I hope he plans to but elder brother is one of the men littlefinger hires at the end of the last book and then informs Sandor that Sansa is at the vale, and then he heads to the vale to rescue Sansa and turn his rage in the right direction- Littlefinger and ironically become her true knight That would be epic but I don't think that's GRRMs style, its more the crap Disney has been spewing to us womenfolk for the past 70 years! We shall see....

The Elder Brother at the Vale is a crackpot theory based on very little. I doubt the EB or Sandor will rescue Sansa in the Vale. There is no basis for Sandor being 'at peace' on the QI either. The EB says Sandor Clegane is at 'rest' not at 'peace.' Quite a difference.

I think Sandor will leave the QI and frankly, the EB will understand that. But when and how, that's the question.

[AllOfTheHours]

Sandor Clegane is better written off as a gravedigger. He deserves a quiet place away from trouble. Writing him back into the story would just cheapen his exit.

I am on the fence with this. Part of me wants him to find peace and never really come up again, because we've seen him in KL and we've seen him on the road, he has enemies every where. If he can't find peace on the QI, he won't find it anywhere. However, he was such a fun character, I would be kinda bummed if he disappears without a bit more closure. However I don't think he can fight again like he used to. Didn't Brienne say the new gravedigger was lame? So if the Hound does return, his ability to fight will have to be addressed (like it was with Jaime).

[SummerDance]

I think he will become ser Sandor of the Faith, or may be just Sandor of the Faith - the Warrior son.

[Hangover of the Morning]

1. Not sure, it's really up to George but I am leaning towards finished

2. I like his character but I prefer if he stayed on the Island. It's a nice and fitting end for his character and ties well with the overall theme of the series where vengeance tends to bring self-destruction rather than any satisfaction. Besides, we barely get any closure on anything in the books so far so it's nice to have one little storyline finished.

[SummerDance]

2. I like his character but I prefer if he stayed on the Island. It's a nice and fitting end for his character and ties well with the overall theme of the series where vengeance tends to bring self-destruction rather than any satisfaction. Besides, we barely get any closure on anything in the books so far so it's nice to have one little storyline finished.

I do not see him dig graves for the rest of his life. Sandor Is still young enough. If he was 45-50 years old, maybe.

[Hangover of the Morning]

I do not see him dig graves for the rest of his life. Sandor Is still young enough. If he was 45-50 years old, maybe.

I should have specified that I meant within the current story. I am happy for him to leave the Quite Island and stop grave digging sometime in the future but I think I prefer if he stays there for now and doesn't influence the ongoing story.