Lord_Pepsi_Cupps Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 The three Freys killed en route from White Harbour to W'fell are put into wedding pies, which ensures that everyone at the wedding will try a bit of baked Frey. Manderly wants the Boltons and especially the Freys to have a bite - but what about all the northern lords also present? (1) maybe Manderly didn't tell them what he did with the three Freys, just that he got rid of them (so he's tricking his allies into being cannibals, to make sure they don't give the game away by refusing to eat)(2) maybe they agreed to eat the pies to keep up the ruse, which would be pretty big of them.(3) maybe Manderly doesn't know about any northern conspiracy other than his own (or there isn't one to begin with), and he actually sees the other northern lords as traitors and so WANTS to feed them the Frey pies too.This has a massive impact on how the Frey/Manderly host sent after Stannis will act. If Manderly thinks he's acting alone, he could be reckless (which we do see with his comment about Little Walder after his body is found). For example, he may be willing to sacrifice all the White Harbour men in Winterfell, in order to deal a serious blow to Bolton strength (making Rickon's return more secure). Thorts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khalcheesy Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 I just did a re-read of this chapter, and I was relieved that Jeyne didn't eat the pie. Poor thing has already suffered enough horror - if she discovered that she'd eaten human flesh that would break her completely. I like to think that many of the White Harbor men were aware - its hard to keep a secret that juicy (heh). It would take a few people to kill and butcher the Freys, so they'd have to be in the loop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wavey Sauce Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 I think your looking into the pie thing too hard when there really isnt anything of great substance to find out. That said mainly the freys and everyone but Roose ate the pies, being Roose wouldnt eat anything Manderly didnt. And its pretty obvious Manderly is going to pledge to stannis and hates all the freys/boltons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Jaime Lannister Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Is there a listing of all the characters who ate the pie and who did not? If there is, then I think it is a great parallel to the chapter on Dorne where there is a toast to the King and it is clear who did and did not drink. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shmewdog Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 I always pictured Manderly going crazy on those pies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 I think your looking into the pie thing too hard when there really isnt anything of great substance to find out. That said mainly the freys and everyone but Roose ate the pies, being Roose wouldnt eat anything Manderly didnt. Oh, Roose ate them. Just after Manderly wolfed down three of them. Is there a listing of all the characters who ate the pie and who did not? If there is, then I think it is a great parallel to the chapter on Dorne where there is a toast to the King and it is clear who did and did not drink. Everybody but Jeyne did. Well, at least Jeyne is the only one pointed not to eat any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Ravens Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 I think your looking into the pie thing too hard when there really isnt anything of great substance to find out. That said mainly the freys and everyone but Roose ate the pies, being Roose wouldnt eat anything Manderly didnt. And its pretty obvious Manderly is going to pledge to stannis and hates all the freys/boltons Roose also ate the pie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 I kinda feel like mostly Northmen wouldn't mind eating some Frey pies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 I kinda feel like mostly Northmen wouldn't mind eating some Frey pies. "Wouldn't mind"? Bring on the seconds! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 "Wouldn't mind"? Bring on the seconds! "You're eating human flesh!" "WHAT? WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS??" "Lord Manderly.. he baked the Freys!" "Ah, ok, then. Keep serving" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 "You're eating human flesh!""WHAT? WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS??""Lord Manderly.. he baked the Freys!""Ah, ok, then. Keep serving""Anyway, you were talking about human flesh? Where is it?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadWo1f Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 "You're eating human flesh!""WHAT? WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS??""Lord Manderly.. he baked the Freys!""Ah, ok, then. Keep serving"Hahahaha,good one. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oopeed Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Do the laws of hospitality still applies while on the road? Or do the gods can take it as a bit of quid pro quo? Otherwise Manderly is up to quite a lot of bad luck. In any case. I think some of his guys must know, if they informed this to other northern lords is unknlown... Northmen have no taboo for cannibalism, do they? They may even eat the pies willingly if they know there's a juicy Frey in there, but the truly important thing is that the Freys try them and then ask for a second slice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Gwynhyfvar Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 It's noted that Theon didn't eat-- “You do not eat,” observed Lady Dustin.“No.” Eating was hard for him. Ramsay had left him with so many broken teeth that chewing was an agony. Reading that passage I'm also pretty sure Barbrey suspected and had refrained from partaking herself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lannister Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 You get the feeling Roose wouldn't even mind too much if he found out. "What this is human flesh? We've been wasting a valuable resource all these years by flaying men." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Pepsi_Cupps Posted January 18, 2015 Author Share Posted January 18, 2015 It's noted that Theon didn't eat-- “You do not eat,” observed Lady Dustin.“No.” Eating was hard for him. Ramsay had left him with so many broken teeth that chewing was an agony. Reading that passage I'm also pretty sure Barbrey suspected and had refrained from partaking herself.That's a good catch about Barbrey (about whom there is strongest circumstantial evidence that she is involved in SOME conspiracy against the Bolton/Freys) - but would it not be noted if a significant number of Northern lords weren't partaking?After all, this is not a Frey marriage, it's a Bolton/Stark marriage, as northern as they come - it's not so easy to explain why some major guests aren't having any of the wedding pie. They probably wouldn't suspect the true reason, but the implication of dissatisfaction/disloyalty would be so easy to make if the wedding pie was widely shunned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Reading that passage I'm also pretty sure Barbrey suspected and had refrained from partaking herself. Just reread too. Before, it's stated that Barbrey asked to take care of the bride. Maybe she warned her not to eat the pies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Gwynhyfvar Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 That's a good catch about Barbrey (about whom there is strongest circumstantial evidence that she is involved in SOME conspiracy against the Bolton/Freys) - but would it not be noted if a significant number of Northern lords weren't partaking?After all, this is not a Frey marriage, it's a Bolton/Stark marriage, as northern as they come - it's not so easy to explain why some major guests aren't having any of the wedding pie. They probably wouldn't suspect the true reason, but the implication of dissatisfaction/disloyalty would be so easy to make if the wedding pie was widely shunned. My guess is if Barbrey suspected, it's because she's pretty shrewd, not because Wyman had told anyone. It seemed pretty clear from re-reading that everyone else did eat the pies, though of course the fact that the Boltons and Freys ate heartily along with Lord Wyman is specifically noted. ETA-- FWiW, Wyman is reckless, whatever the motivations are. He doesn't expect to survive and he has brought a small force of mostly old men with him, leaving the bulk of House Manderly's strength in WH with his son. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Gwynhyfvar Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Just reread too. Before, it's stated that Barbrey asked to take care of the bride. Maybe she warned her not to eat the pies. Hmm, could be. I read it as Jeyne being so scared she couldn't eat. But if she'd been warned about people in pies that would not doubt add to her terror... :ack: Re-reading makes it pretty clear Barbrey's up to something, though I doubt at this point she's in league with Manderly since her scorn seems pretty genuine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Light a wight tonight Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Do the laws of hospitality still applies while on the road? Or do the gods can take it as a bit of quid pro quo? Otherwise Manderly is up to quite a lot of bad luck. Manderly was very exacting in ending the guest/host relationship when the Freys left White Harbor, even giving them horses as parting gifts. They were no longer guests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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