Relative army sizes of Westeros (pre-WOT5K)

[Warrior of Light]

I know,I know this has been done to death and it seems like such a worn out topic but honestly whenever I try to figure out the sizes I get all sorts of different bloggers each one coming up with their own and honestly outrageous sizes e.g. the North and the Vale being placed below 30k and the Westerlands being placed above 60k.In that spirit, I decided to do my own research and post my results for whoever's still interested! Note that this strictly refers to land forces.

Before figuring out the numbers I took three facts into consideration; 1) GRRM has stated that all regions can field at least 20-30k, 2) a series of army numbers that GRRM approved for the 2005 semi-canon "A Game of Thrones RPG and Resource Book" which will be stated below and the fact that these numbers are relative and although close to reality, they are not meant to be taken for granted,meaning that the actual numbers could be a bit larger or a bit smaller and 3) a region's offensive power is smaller than its defensive power as there are always thousands of men left behind to ensure security and garrison the keeps/forts (do keep in mind that an averagely sized castle like Riverrun has a permanent garrison of 200 men so 50-300 men staying behind at each fort is reasonable).

Dorne: In all honesty, this was the only one I couldn't figure out and nothing is mentioned on said semi-canon source. We get Doran saying that Dorne has the smallest population of all regions and that Daeron I exaggerated the numbers of the Dornish army to 50k and then we get Quentyn saying he can provide 50k spears to Danny. Usually people put it at the 20k to 30k maximum range but why would Quentyn lie?

Crownlands: This is probably the easiest one. In the numbers GRRM approved, the mainland crownlords can raise 10-15k and Dragonstone,Driftmark and Claw Isle are able to raise 4-5k (as Dragonstone alone can raise over 3k) . So,in total the Crownlands should be able to raise the smallest number of any region at 20k.

Iron Islands: In said source, the figure of the Ironborn army was put at about 20k. Knowing that the Iron Fleet is consisted of 100 longships much larger than the average ones and holds 10k[b/] men and with GRRM's indication that each major ironlord can float about 100 longhips (~600 longships), it would be no wonder if their definitive figure was actually at over 25k, maybe even close to the 30k range.

Stormlands: According to the source the Stormlords can raise 30k men. This is where my biggest of doubts are cast because, despite the relatively small population and lands of the Stormlands, they have a very strong martial culture. Exhibit A: During the Dance of the Dragons in 131AC the Stormlords raised a host of 40k (http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Battle_of_the_Kingsroad) and invaded the Riverlands and there is no claim that there were old men,young boys etc just to make the army look bigger (unlike Lord Cregan Stark who was marching with a 30k force of young unwed men looking for glory and old men). As such, I think it is only reasonable that the Stormlords can host 40k+ men.

Westerlands: This is the region with the biggest myths surrounding it, with most people claiming that the Lannisters can raise over 60k. The sourse claims they should be able to raise 50k. Let's analyse that; during the WOT5K Tywin marches with an army of 20k, while Jaime takes Riverrun with a force of 15k. So that's 35k which sould be close to full offensive force as Tywin had enough time to gather them and no one dared object him. Add to that the thousands of men left behind as garrisons/patrols and you sould come around 45k. I will not count the 10k that Stafford Lannister was training because any kingdom at time of need would recruit barely capable men just to swamp their numbers, the Lannisters can just train them better and provide better armour. Other than Stafford's recruits there was really no other force guarding the Westerlands.At the end of the day, 45k should be correct.

Riverlands: The source claims the Riverlords should be able to raise a host of 45k. Taking into account the fact that the Riverlands are equal in size to the Westerlands and many times as fertile, I would honestly claim that they can raise a MUCH larger number BUT since the Lannisters basically shit gold and can therefore train a lot of men and do not demand as many men to stay behind for the harvests as the Rivermen, I will maintain that claim. So all in all, the Riverlands deffinitely have a much larger population and should be able to raise a host at the 45-50k range. Reasons why Edmure didn't gather many men during the WOT5K include;1) the numerous rivers that run across its expanse may be the reason for their fertility and wealth but they significantly slow down an army gathering as they make transportation difficult, 2) the continuous harvests; remember, when Catelyn meets with Renly, he tells her that Robb should have 40k men now that he's united with the Riverlords and she thinks to herself that they don't have near as many because they have lost many men to the war and to the harvest, and 3) many Lords despise each other and are notoriously quarellsome, there are a few houses that despise the Tullys themselves since the time of the Usurper's war and the Freys, their most powerful house by far, are cowards.

The Vale and the North: I am putting these together as the source states that both can raise 45k and The Man himself has stated that they are equal when it comes to military forces. I will dare to put the North at 50k as it only makes sense that it can raise that many men, otherwise the North would basically be empty and unable to sustain itself. Many claim that the North has fewer men as Robb only marched with 20k, failing to notice that that number is actually pretty reasonable considering the massive size of the North and how Robb had to assemble his forces in a moment's notice plus, the books keep referring to thousands of men left behind. Therefore, I put both kingdoms in the 50k range.

The Reach: Last but not least, no one's favourite, the Tyrells.The source claims that they should be able to raise an army in the range of 80-100k and it is generally accepted that they can raise double than most/all kingdoms. Let's see the facts; Renly states that he is marching with 80k men to take King's Landing, 20k of them being from the Stormlands (as Stannis takes 20k Stormlands men after Renly's assassination) and claims that Lord Mace Tyrell is awaiting at Highgarden with another 10k men from the Reach. That is in total 70k, which is why it makes sense that they can raise 100k at total, as there is no way those 70k were full strength as the Reach is quite big and therefore full force takes a while to assemble (Renly himself marched very slowly to let King's Landing starve and gather a bigger force) and the Hightowers didn't even join them (about 10-15k men) and there should be thousands of men garrisoning keeps and forts (there are 74 known Reach houses with their keeps/forts, double than that of any other Great house).

So, to sum up:

1.The Reach: ~100,000 men.

2.The North: 50,000 men.

The Vale: 50,000 men.

3.Riverlands: 45-50,000 max.

4.Westerlands: 45,000 men.

5.Stormlands: 40,000+ men.

6.(very indecisive)

Dorne: Honestly uknown, stats project a 20-30,000+ range.

Iron Islands: ~25,000 men (could be 30,000 given their culture).

7.Crownlands: 20,000 men.

(Yes the Lannisters are #4 and it has been perfectly justified)

Aaaaand here is said source ----------> http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Armies

[Lee-Sensei]

1) Reach: 100,000

2) Westerlands: 60,000

3) Vale: 50,000

4) North: 50,000

5) Riverlands: 50,000

6) Stormlands: 35,000

7) Iron Islands: 30,000

9) Dorne: 25,000

10) Mainlands Crownlands: 10,000

11) Dragonstone: 5,000

[Warrior of Light]

1) Reach: 100,000

2) Westerlands: 60,000

3) Vale: 50,000

4) North: 50,000

5) Riverlands: 50,000

6) Stormlands: 35,000

7) Iron Islands: 30,000

9) Dorne: 25,000

10) Mainlands Crownlands: 10,000

11) Dragonstone: 5,000

Im trying to reason here, if you could at least explain why those numbers are correct thatd would be great, otherwise it looks like youre just making it up. Also, 60,000 for the Lannisters can be achieved if you add the bottom of the barrel, the untrained homeless men and thugs recruited to make up the numbers and I clearly stated I wont include such numbers

[Floki of the Ironborn]

Exhibit A: During the Dance of the Dragons in 131AC the Stormlords raised a host of 40k (http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Battle_of_the_Kingsroad) and invaded the Riverlands and there is no claim that there were old men,young boys etc just to make the army look bigger ( unlike Lord Cregan Stark who was marching with a 30k force of young unwed men looking for glory and old men). As such, I think it is only reasonable that the Stormlords can host 40k+ men.

So if Cregan Stark could summon 30,000 young and old men to take with him, without apparently calling on the rest of his bannermen, surely that would imply the North has more than 50,000? Or is the point that of those 50,000, 30,000 of them decided to leave the North (keeping in mind, almost none of them returned with Cregan, they either died or stayed in the southern lands).

[James Steller]

So if Cregan Stark could summon 30,000 young and old men to take with him, without apparently calling on the rest of his bannermen, surely that would imply the North has more than 50,000? Or is the point that of those 50,000, 30,000 of them decided to leave the North (keeping in mind, almost none of them returned with Cregan, they either died or stayed in the southern lands).

Speaking of those Northmen who stayed in the south, I'd like to hear more about what they ended up doing. I mean, they choose to stay in an alien environment which looks down on them and their religion. Surely some of them had adventures worth talking about?

[Balerion the kitten]

I seriously doubt that the reach can get up to 100,000 men. Sure they could put competition up against the lannister but not much more than that. Renly's numbers (I think) were probably exaggerated. Maybe I'm wrong but that just seems off to me

[Warrior of Light]

So if Cregan Stark could summon 30,000 young and old men to take with him, without apparently calling on the rest of his bannermen, surely that would imply the North has more than 50,000? Or is the point that of those 50,000, 30,000 of them decided to leave the North (keeping in mind, almost none of them returned with Cregan, they either died or stayed in the southern lands).

Cregan pledged his support to the blacks.[2] The fear of a hard and long winter had driven the Winter Wolves to gather beneath the banner of Lord Roderick Dustin and die fighting for Queen Rhaenyra. But behind them came a greater army of childless and homeless men, unwed men, old men, and younger sons, under the banner of Lord Cregan Stark. They had come for a war, for adventure and plunder, and for a glorious death to spare their kin beyond the Neck one more mouth to feed.He returned to the North, leaving many of his fierce northmen behind in the south.

Thats what the wiki says. The reason I didnt take this into account is the same reason I didnt take Stafford's recruits into account; they are not part of the actual trained army. For some reason, cregan opted to create that kind of force. Seeing as almost any kingdom should be able to do that ,I didnt use it as a fact to justify the numbers.

[Warrior of Light]

Speaking of those Northmen who stayed in the south, I'd like to hear more about what they ended up doing. I mean, they choose to stay in an alien environment which looks down on them and their religion. Surely some of them had adventures worth talking about?

Well they wanted glory so Im guessing they stayed behind to get some. I doubt most of them succeeded!

[Warrior of Light]

I seriously doubt that the reach can get up to 100,000 men. Sure they could put competition up against the lannister but not much more than that. Renly's numbers (I think) were probably exaggerated. Maybe I'm wrong but that just seems off to me

Renly claims to Stannis that he has 100,000 men marching with him ,which is truly exaggerated. On the other hand he seems to be honest about having 80,000 when he speaks to Catelyn and Catelyn herself is astonished by the size of his camp.

[Ramsay's Penguins]

North- 43k (the North has this nice little hack which allows them to raise more men during winter, and from fringe areas)

Riverlands- 39k (it could be higher, but its not going to be, the riverlords don't work together and will never have time to muster a single force, they are always split by rivers)

Vale- 40k (the most powerful lords can raise 20k, that is a little one side, but those lords have extremely powerful vassals of their own)

Iron Isles- 27k (10k Iron Fleet, then on average 2k for each of the main islands, some more, some less)

Westerlands- 45k (35k invasion force, 10k remaining. Staffords army doesn't really count, since it is literally untrained men)

Reach- 80k (Renly's army was exaggerated. The Hightowers alone can field around 15k men. No way in hell can they amass this army all in one place.)

Crownlands- 19k (3k for the Narrow Sea lords, then 8k each for the lords north of the Blackwater, and 8k for those south)

Stormlands- 35k (militiant region, not a terrible size, marcher lords can probably field 10k men on their own). I also think that the 10 to 1 number is both exaggerated, and may consist of reach lords who didn't follow Peake back into the Reach. Maybe just Hightower men, who wouldn't follow a Peake.

Dorne- 27k (definitely not 50k, but it is still a large region, and the mountains are pretty clearly fertile, and the land around the Greenblood likewise, plus heaps of coastal settlements)

I don't like using prefect numbers... Round up or down as necessary.

City Watches do not count. They are a peacekeeping force. Green boys and old men and peasants do count, but they never make up the bulk of an army. Hedge knights, free riders and sellswords make up armies, but not a regions strength. Garrisons do make up a regions strength, and so do guards.

[Nihlus]

Reach: 80,000. Renly had 80,000 men total in his army, and that was with the Stormlands contributing 20k-30k. There was another 10k Reachmen at Highgarden, and another 10k Reachmen that never marched out (Hightowers), plus various others as well. I think 80,000 total is reasonable.

North: 45,000. GRRM said the North, Vale, and Dorne were around equal back when Dorne had fifty thousand men. When considering how many men Roose and Stannis are gathering even after Robb marched south with 20,000 men, and how many sources are still untapped (most notably the Manderlys and Dustins), that seems about right. Note, however, that some forces can't normally be called upon and aren't equipped to a reliable standard, and so wouldn't be counted in this total. These include Skagosi, Crannogmen, and Mountain Clans. The North is also massive and inhospitable, making it next to impossible to invade, though that has the side effect of making the North's full strength hard to gather.

Westerlands: 45,000. Initially, Tywin raised 35,000 men, divided into two hosts, to attack the Riverlands. These men included second-stringers and mercenaries, notably in Tywin's left flank at the Green Fork, so already we know that they had to scrape the bottom a bit to muster this much. Later, Stafford raises another 6,000 men, which joins with the 4,000 survivors of Jaime's host. Stafford's new men are noted to be shit-tier, the dregs of Lannisport, which again points to them scraping the bottom of the barrel to raise this much. That's 41,000 men accounted for. Add the Lannisport city watch, which should account for another couple thousand, and various castle garrisons, and 45k would appear to be correct. Note that this total counts mercenaries, since we know that Tywin employed at least a couple thousand of 'em. The Westerlands being small, densely populated, and rich means they can gather these forces quickly. The hilly terrain also makes the Westerlands easily defensible.

Vale: 45,000. Pretty simple. GRRM declared them and the North to be roughly on par. They're untapped as of yet, so they're pretty much the second most powerful military force in Westeros right now, behind the force the Tyrells gathered, mostly from the Reach.

Riverlands: 40,000-45,000. The Riverlands are small, but very thickly populated. Even taken off guard and suffering from divided loyalties, they were able to raise ~30,000 men to fight Tywin: 4,000 the the Golden Tooth, 10,000 at Riverrun, 5,000 to join Robb, and another 11,000 at the Fords. A quick look at a map puts them about half the size of the Reach, so I think it's appropriate if they have about half the population. While the Riverlands are rich and populous, and their small size lets them gather forces quickly, they also lack natural barriers and aren't always unified.

Stormlands: 30,000-35,000. I've never really seen a reason to doubt the RPG number, in this case. It fits well enough. The Stormlands have a strong martial tradition, but are relatively poor and sparse (see how GRRM dismissively talks about them being full of "rocks and trees").

Dorne: 25,000. Dorne is supposed to be the least populous of the seven kingdoms. Meaning, less populous than any other region save the Crownlands and Iron Islands. Dorne is also very large and sparsely populated, not particularly rich, and doesn't have a strong martial tradition. So, at the very least, they should have noticeably less men than the Stormlands. Their commonly-touted fifty thousand number has been admitted to as being propaganda.

Crownlands: 20,000-25,000. Not technically one of the seven kingdoms, but worth counting anyway. At the beginning of the war, Stannis raises 5,000 men from Dragonstone and the surrounding islands. These include mercenaries, but it's unknown how many, other than that it's less than two thousand. Either Dragonstone is more populated than we thought, Stannis is a good administrator, or Dragonstone is meant to have a higher proportion of soldiers. Anyway, Tyrion Lannister also manages to raise 7,100 more men from King's Landing and the surrounding areas by scraping the bottom of the barrel. Namely, 6,000 gold cloaks (though only 1/3 are really worth anything), 800 mercenaries, and 300 knights and squires. The rest of the Crownlands lords are still unaccounted for, though they're never noted to be particularly powerful, so I'll just go with the RPG game's estimation of 10k-15k for them. These numbers can change if there were a lot of "marines" aboard the Crownlands' navy, though I'm not sure how to quantify the royal fleet.

Iron Islands: 25,000-30,000. First of all, it should be noted that the Ironborn ship crews double as soldiers and raiders. This means we can probably estimate their man power from their navy. We know they have 100 ships that dip a hundred oars or more in the Iron Fleet; accounting for sailors and other personnel on top of those oarsmen puts the Iron Fleet alone at a minimum of 12,000. Possibly 15,000.

Then we get into the rest. As indicated by Asha having "not quite 200 men" for 4 longships in ADWD, and 1,000 men for 30 longships when assaulting Deepwood Motte, we can conclude that there are 30-50 Ironborn per longship. Euron supposedly assaults the Reach with 1,000 ships total, Iron Fleet and longships, but that's obviously an exaggeration. I estimate the Ironborn at 400 ships outside of the Iron Fleet, almost entirely longships. Meaning an absolute minimum of 25k reavers total, with 30k being not unlikely at all. If this seems odd for islands with only probably a few hundred thousand people, note that, as a fishing and mining based economy, they can get away with putting 5-10% of the population in the military, while the "green landers" can only afford to put in 0.5-1%. They're also very small, so it's easy to gather men quickly. Note, however, that an Iron Islands soldier will, on average, be inferior to a soldier of any other region when fighting on land. They're light infantry rather than heavy (in role, not literally in weight), and seem to completely lack cavalry.

[Warrior of Light]

North- 43k (the North has this nice little hack which allows them to raise more men during winter, and from fringe areas)

Riverlands- 39k (it could be higher, but its not going to be, the riverlords don't work together and will never have time to muster a single force, they are always split by rivers)

Vale- 40k (the most powerful lords can raise 20k, that is a little one side, but those lords have extremely powerful vassals of their own)

Iron Isles- 27k (10k Iron Fleet, then on average 2k for each of the main islands, some more, some less)

Westerlands- 45k (35k invasion force, 10k remaining. Staffords army doesn't really count, since it is literally untrained men)

Reach- 80k (Renly's army was exaggerated. The Hightowers alone can field around 15k men. No way in hell can they amass this army all in one place.)

Crownlands- 19k (3k for the Narrow Sea lords, then 8k each for the lords north of the Blackwater, and 8k for those south)

Stormlands- 35k (militiant region, not a terrible size, marcher lords can probably field 10k men on their own). I also think that the 10 to 1 number is both exaggerated, and may consist of reach lords who didn't follow Peake back into the Reach. Maybe just Hightower men, who wouldn't follow a Peake.

Dorne- 27k (definitely not 50k, but it is still a large region, and the mountains are pretty clearly fertile, and the land around the Greenblood likewise, plus heaps of coastal settlements)

I don't like using prefect numbers... Round up or down as necessary.

City Watches do not count. They are a peacekeeping force. Green boys and old men and peasants do count, but they never make up the bulk of an army. Hedge knights, free riders and sellswords make up armies, but not a regions strength. Garrisons do make up a regions strength, and so do guards.

I can see some of your numbers but I dont get how you can use such exact numbers so easily; also keep in mind that concerning the Reach and the Riverlands I was trying to figure out their total numbers, I know the Riverlands will never reach full strength because of the quarellsome lords and that the Reach couldnt possibly field its entire army but I was figuring total full strength.

[Warrior of Light]

Reach: 80,000. Renly had 80,000 men total in his army, and that was with the Stormlands contributing 20k-30k. There was another 10k Reachmen at Highgarden, and another 10k Reachmen that never marched out (Hightowers), plus various others as well. I think 80,000 total is reasonable.

North: 45,000. GRRM said the North, Vale, and Dorne were around equal back when Dorne had fifty thousand men. When considering how many men Roose and Stannis are gathering even after Robb marched south with 20,000 men, and how many sources are still untapped (most notably the Manderlys and Dustins), that seems about right. Note, however, that some forces can't normally be called upon and aren't equipped to a reliable standard, and so wouldn't be counted in this total. These include Skagosi, Crannogmen, and Mountain Clans. The North is also massive and inhospitable, making it next to impossible to invade, though that has the side effect of making the North's full strength hard to gather.

Westerlands: 45,000. Initially, Tywin raised 35,000 men, divided into two hosts, to attack the Riverlands. These men included second-stringers and mercenaries, notably in Tywin's left flank at the Green Fork, so already we know that they had to scrape the bottom a bit to muster this much. Later, Stafford raises another 6,000 men, which joins with the 4,000 survivors of Jaime's host. Stafford's new men are noted to be shit-tier, the dregs of Lannisport, which again points to them scraping the bottom of the barrel to raise this much. That's 41,000 men accounted for. Add the Lannisport city watch, which should account for another couple thousand, and various castle garrisons, and 45k would appear to be correct. Note that this total counts mercenaries, since we know that Tywin employed at least a couple thousand of 'em. The Westerlands being small, densely populated, and rich means they can gather these forces quickly. The hilly terrain also makes the Westerlands easily defensible.

Vale: 45,000. Pretty simple. GRRM declared them and the North to be roughly on par. They're untapped as of yet, so they're pretty much the second most powerful military force in Westeros right now, behind the force the Tyrells gathered, mostly from the Reach.

Riverlands: 40,000-45,000. The Riverlands are small, but very thickly populated. Even taken off guard and suffering from divided loyalties, they were able to raise ~30,000 men to fight Tywin: 4,000 the the Golden Tooth, 10,000 at Riverrun, 5,000 to join Robb, and another 11,000 at the Fords. A quick look at a map puts them about half the size of the Reach, so I think it's appropriate if they have about half the population. While the Riverlands are rich and populous, and their small size lets them gather forces quickly, they also lack natural barriers and aren't always unified.

Stormlands: 30,000-35,000. I've never really seen a reason to doubt the RPG number, in this case. It fits well enough. The Stormlands have a strong martial tradition, but are relatively poor and sparse (see how GRRM dismissively talks about them being full of "rocks and trees").

Dorne: 25,000. Dorne is supposed to be the least populous of the seven kingdoms. Meaning, less populous than any other region save the Crownlands and Iron Islands. Dorne is also very large and sparsely populated, not particularly rich, and doesn't have a strong martial tradition. So, at the very least, they should have noticeably less men than the Stormlands. Their commonly-touted fifty thousand number has been admitted to as being propaganda.

Crownlands: 20,000-25,000. Not technically one of the seven kingdoms, but worth counting anyway. At the beginning of the war, Stannis raises 5,000 men from Dragonstone and the surrounding islands. These include mercenaries, but it's unknown how many, other than that it's less than two thousand. Either Dragonstone is more populated than we thought, Stannis is a good administrator, or Dragonstone is meant to have a higher proportion of soldiers. Anyway, Tyrion Lannister also manages to raise 7,100 more men from King's Landing and the surrounding areas by scraping the bottom of the barrel. Namely, 6,000 gold cloaks (though only 1/3 are really worth anything), 800 mercenaries, and 300 knights and squires. The rest of the Crownlands lords are still unaccounted for, though they're never noted to be particularly powerful, so I'll just go with the RPG game's estimation of 10k-15k for them. These numbers can change if there were a lot of "marines" aboard the Crownlands' navy, though I'm not sure how to quantify the royal fleet.

Iron Islands: 25,000-30,000. First of all, it should be noted that the Ironborn ship crews double as soldiers and raiders. This means we can probably estimate their man power from their navy. We know they have 100 ships that dip a hundred oars or more in the Iron Fleet; accounting for sailors and other personnel on top of those oarsmen puts the Iron Fleet alone at a minimum of 12,000. Possibly 15,000.

Then we get into the rest. As indicated by Asha having "not quite 200 men" for 4 longships in ADWD, and 1,000 men for 30 longships when assaulting Deepwood Motte, we can conclude that there are 30-40 Ironborn per longship. Euron supposedly assaults the Reach with 1,000 ships total, Iron Fleet and longships, but that's obviously an exaggeration. I estimate the Ironborn at 400 ships outside of the Iron Fleet, almost entirely longships. Meaning an absolute minimum of 25k reavers total, with 30k being not unlikely at all. If this seems odd for islands with only probably a few hundred thousand people, note that, as a fishing and mining based economy, they can get away with putting 5-10% of the population in the military, while the "green landers" can only afford to put in 0.5-1%. They're also very small, so it's easy to gather men quickly. Note, however, that an Iron Islands soldier will, on average, be inferior to a soldier of any other region when fighting on land. They're light infantry rather than heavy (in role, not literally in weight), and seem to completely lack cavalry.

I see your points but Im still inclined to believe most of the numbers are somewhat bigger after my research; maybe I dont see it clearly enough but its what Im led to believe.

[Ramsay's Penguins]

I can see some of your numbers but I dont get how you can use such exact numbers so easily; also keep in mind that concerning the Reach and the Riverlands I was trying to figure out their total numbers, I know the Riverlands will never reach full strength because of the quarellsome lords and that the Reach couldnt possibly field its entire army but I was figuring total full strength.

I use such numbers because they can be rounded up or down easily. Most are in the middle so they serve that function!

No one can really mobilise their entire army. Tywin left with 35k and thats all he dare leave with, with ironborn around.

The Vale doesn't like to mobilise completely, but they will.

Riverlands to fractured, Reach to large ($$$$$), stormlands to supicious of Dorne and probably other regions and Dorne won't ever do it. The Isles could. The North only has a huge army once winter comes, and 10'000 more men come out of the woodwork, plus those lords who hold a nominal sort of fealty.

[Lee-Sensei]

Im trying to reason here, if you could at least explain why those numbers are correct thatd would be great, otherwise it looks like youre just making it up. Also, 60,000 for the Lannisters can be achieved if you add the bottom of the barrel, the untrained homeless men and thugs recruited to make up the numbers and I clearly stated I wont include such numbers

1) IIRC, Renly had 60,000 Reachmen with him and the Tyrells and Redwynes only gave token support.

2) I read on an SSM that the West was second only to the Reach in military strength.

3) Early Dorne was put at 50,000 and the North and the Vale were equal. And the Riverlands is supposed to have a large population.

4) The Stormlands has more men than Dorne and the Iron Islands.

5) Dorne has the smallest army, so I put the Iron Islands at 30,000.

6) I have no evidence for the Crownlands. Stannis is said to have 4,000 men, but the reason i gave it 15,000 is that combined with the Stormlands it would give the Baratheons 50,000 men like the Arryns, Tulls and Starks.

[RaDeBrun]

We know that the Redwynes have 200 warships. Assuming that these average 100 oars, 20 other sailors/officers, and 80 marines, this would equate to 40,000 men. There is some indication that the fleet is a standing military force, but, even assuming it isn't, this would indicate that the Redwynes alone can raise 40,000 men with relative ease.

[GallowsKnight]

We know that the Redwynes have 200 warships. Assuming that these average 100 oars, 20 other sailors/officers, and 80 marines, this would equate to 40,000 men. There is some indication that the fleet is a standing military force, but, even assuming it isn't, this would indicate that the Redwynes alone can raise 40,000 men with relative ease.

But only marines and officers really count as soldiers. The oarsmen can fight ship to ship if needed. But without armor and with boarding axes, marlinspikes, belt knives etc.

No one is going to abandon ships and try to make those 40,000 men fight on land, as it's suicide.

[Ramsay's Penguins]

We know that the Redwynes have 200 warships. Assuming that these average 100 oars, 20 other sailors/officers, and 80 marines, this would equate to 40,000 men. There is some indication that the fleet is a standing military force, but, even assuming it isn't, this would indicate that the Redwynes alone can raise 40,000 men with relative ease.

No, because the Redwyne's fleet is manned by man from all over the Reach. There is no way that the Arbor can field 40'000 men.

snip

5) Dorne has the smallest army, so I put the Iron Islands at 30,000.

Of all the kingdoms Dorne, has the smallest army. The Isles+Riverlands outnumber Dorne. I think Dorne has a larger army then both the crownlands and the Isles.

The Isles don't really have an army either, besides the Iron Fleet (which is 10'000), since they are raiders, but I guess thats a matter of interpretation. So, Dorne>Isles>Crownlands.

[brandonmartel]

1.The Reach: 80k
2.Westerlands : 50-55k
3.The North : 45-55k
4.Riverlands: 45-50k
4.Vale: 45k
5.Stormlands: 30k
6.Dorne: 25-30k
7.Iron Islands: 20-25k
8.Crownlands: 15-20k

[redtree]

1) Reach: 100,000

2) Westerlands: 60,000

3) Vale: 50,000

4) North: 50,000

5) Riverlands: 50,000

6) Stormlands: 35,000

7) Iron Islands: 30,000

9) Dorne: 25,000

10) Mainlands Crownlands: 10,000

11) Dragonstone: 5,000

Riverlands is at least 25% bigger and Vale is about the same size as Westerlands so i think 60k number is including sellswords

And IMO if there was an open battle between Reach and Westerlands, the latter would win because the former's common soldiers usually wear no armor at all while the Westerlands are fully equipped