Winterfell Resident Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 If John Snow did leave the Night's Watch to help Robb Stark in the "War of the 5 Kings", would the events have turned out in favor of the North or would the outcome still be the same such as the Red Wedding, Iron Born seizing parts of the North, etc? I really would like to read some opinions on this matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerys Blackfyre Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 no, he would have been executed for deserting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkSister1001 Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 I think so, but I don't think he could have come face-to-face with Robb. He would have had to remain an outlaw in hiding but fighting for the North. I think Robb would have had to execute Jon as a deserter. Robb's worst problem was Theon and Jon would have dealt with him swiftly. Robb was open about his trust for Theon and having Theon turn on him sowed doubt in Robb's leadership skills to the Boltons. I believe that Roose was ALWAYS looking for his opportunity and Theon paved the way for Roose & Ramsay. His grief from the sack of WF and "deaths" of Bran and Rickon sent Robb into Jeyne's arms causing Robb to break his word to the Frey's, thus leading to the RW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winterfell Resident Posted March 27, 2015 Author Share Posted March 27, 2015 So then it's possible that the sacking of winterfell could've been prevented if Jon did leave the Night's watch? Also, couldn't "King of the North" Robb Stark forego the execution of Jon for deserting? He did grant Jon the Stark Name and made him successor to look over Winterfell if anything happened to Robb. The whole thing with the North fighting the Lannisters was to free Ned Stark and get back Sansa and Arya and then separate from the 7 Kingdoms for good. The fact that Jon deserted the Night's Watch to help the North achieve this would be small fries compared to pulling off a miracle of separating from the kingdoms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xanrn Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Yes just exccuted no reason just dead Jon would i have topped Jeyne Westerling Might not stoped Mormont riding to his death The beating wing of a butterfly effecting the other side of the globe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viserys - The last dragon Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Ha, I dont believe for a second that Robb would execute Jon. He would either send Jon back to the wall and give instructions to the NW not to kill him (of course the NW dont have to listen to those commands since they are no vassal, but they would probably/maybe accept them because they wish to have a healthy relationship with the North (and every other kingdom I suppose, but especially the north since its close by and they have strong ties). But what I find most likely is that Robb would pardon Jon and let him join their cause.. He could send some prisoners to the wall to make up for it- but he does not really have to tho.. Some might argue that the other lords would be angry.. Well.. they might be a little bit upset.. but haha, they have much more important things to worry about.. Its not like anyone is going to leave Robbs cause because of it. I'm quite sure that some lords would actually accept Jon's decision and think it is good that he will help avenge his father. I believe people here overestimate how much the other lords would care/how they could react... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Ha, I dont believe for a second that Robb would execute Jon. He would either send Jon back to the wall and give instructions to the NW not to kill him (of course the NW dont have to listen to those commands since they are no vassal, but they would probably/maybe accept them because they wish to have a healthy relationship with the North (and every other kingdom I suppose, but especially the north since its close by and they have strong ties). But what I find most likely is that Robb would pardon Jon and let him join their cause.. He could send some prisoners to the wall to make up for it- but he does not really have to tho.. Some might argue that the other lords would be angry.. Well.. they might be a little bit upset.. but haha, they have much more important things to worry about.. Its not like anyone is going to leave Robbs cause because of it. I'm quite sure that some lords would actually accept Jon's decision and think it is good that he will help avenge his father. I believe people here overestimate how much the other lords would care/how they could react...Who is to say he would even reach Robb? More likely he is taken by some small Lord/knight/peasants in the North somewhere, where he is much more likely to be killed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkSister1001 Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 So then it's possible that the sacking of winterfell could've been prevented if Jon did leave the Night's watch? Also, couldn't "King of the North" Robb Stark forego the execution of Jon for deserting? He did grant Jon the Stark Name and made him successor to look over Winterfell if anything happened to Robb. The whole thing with the North fighting the Lannisters was to free Ned Stark and get back Sansa and Arya and then separate from the 7 Kingdoms for good. The fact that Jon deserted the Night's Watch to help the North achieve this would be small fries compared to pulling off a miracle of separating from the kingdoms. Maybe, on both accounts. It's possible that Robb pardoning Jon as a deserter of the NW could've lead to the same issues as Theon turning his cloak. The North holds the NW in much higher regard than the rest of the 7K. Remember how Robb was about executing Karstark and how the Karstarks rebelled? Not executing Jon could have had the same ramifications. Jon deserting to join Robb and Robb pardoning him wouldn't be the same as Robb naming him his heir. Not to mention desertion would change who Jon is. His vows are already weighing heavy on him and breaking them or the appearance of breaking them has been a struggle for him. Edit: Wording. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viserys - The last dragon Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Who is to say he would even reach Robb? More likely he is taken by some small Lord/knight/peasants in the North somewhere, where he is much more likely to be killed Well.. I think its wrong to say "more likely" but its a possibility, sure.. So is him falling of his horse on his way there? Did you expect me to mention every possible scenario? It was clear from my post that I was talking about what would happen when/if Jon reached Robb- in response to someone saying he would be executed by Robb.. EDIT: and I disagree with that statement.. At least if Jon was caught by some Lord. They would not execute someone the brother of their king.. Of course its possible that they do that before they are able to confirm his identity. But if they are able to confirm it then no.. I believe they would not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Damian Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 It is tragic because if word had arrived a little bit sooner, before he gave his vows, he could have left without being a deserter/oathbreaker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyannaisalive Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 Robb himself was considering absolving Jon of his vows. His father was murdered and his sisters are hostages. Punishing Jon Would likely be the last thing on his mind.......Cat on the other hand....... I think Jon showing up Would cause a big riff between Cat and Robb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew medici Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 How is jon deserting and robb nameing him his heir not the same thing because if jon did find out about his will and he did accept it he would have to desert the nights watch anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neds Secret Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 It would have been good for Robbs cause but not so good for jons arc or the nights watch or the fight against the others. Also, stannis story would be quite different because Jon has aided him quite a lot. So basically it would have affected the song of ice and fire greatly and would not have been as interesting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRANDON GREYSTARK Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Robb was willing to send 100 men to the wall for Jon . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hear me bore Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Not a chance in hell Robb executes Jon. Having absolute moral codes lead to absurdity, see Arthur Dayne and Barristan Selmy serving a lunatic. Robb would realize the worth of Jon and put him to good use. He's essentailly another adult Stark male, and one who is pretty smart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Not a chance in hell Robb executes Jon. Having absolute moral codes lead to absurdity, see Arthur Dayne and Barristan Selmy serving a lunatic. Robb would realize the worth of Jon and put him to good use. He's essentailly another adult Stark male, and one who is pretty smart.He is only smart because of the experiences he faces on the wall and beyond. Without those experiences, I doubt a 14/15 year old boy would be of any significant help to Robb, who has vastly more experienced commanders. So no, I don't think he would have changed things. He is one very inexperienced man, in this scenario. There is little he could really do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Reaper oOo Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 It's not like they have amber alerts for missing people, or bilboards saying "have you seen Jon Snow?". Had he manage to escape the clutches of the NW, he would likely alter his appearance. He would not have been captured by this lord, or that lord. His real problem would have came when he reached Robb. He would then be acknowledged, and all of Robbs bannermen would have mixed feelings. Some would say execution for desertion, some would say send him back, some wouldn't give a fuck as long as Jon killed as many Lannister men as he could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyrhex Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 If John Snow did leave the Night's Watch to help Robb Stark in the "War of the 5 Kings", would the events have turned out in favor of the North or would the outcome still be the same such as the Red Wedding, Iron Born seizing parts of the North, etc? I really would like to read some opinions on this matter. If Jon leaves the NW to join Robb, he dies at the Twins, nothing else changes on that front. Robb did not do anything to his mother for clear treason, and his lords were so in love with his myth that they let it slide (aside from Karstark and Bolton, who saw weakness, and rightly so). Jon would have had a place in Robb's guard, and had died at the Red Wedding trying to protect Robb. If Jon is not in the NW, that means that Mormont likely sends someone other than Thorne to King's Landing with the hand. Since Tyrion has no special dislike for this other person, he might see the hand this time. What can KL do with this information, with preparations for war taking a priority, is anyone's guess. Tyrion is more concerned with playing the game for the sake of playing the game, Cersei cares about herself and her children before she would give a fuck about Northmen suffering from Wildlings and monsters. They have no one really to send, and no way to send them, especially when they see that the North cares so little that it stopped killing deserters from the NW if they are kin or help in thier war in the south. Overall not much is different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hear me bore Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 He is only smart because of the experiences he faces on the wall and beyond. Without those experiences, I doubt a 14/15 year old boy would be of any significant help to Robb, who has vastly more experienced commanders. So no, I don't think he would have changed things. He is one very inexperienced man, in this scenario. There is little he could really doHe is smart because he is smart. Yes, he does get experience at the Wall, though. But just having another Stark male would be huge for Robb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibzit Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 To quote the old bear:"Your brother is in the field with all the power of the north behind him. Any one of his lords bannermen commands more swords than you'll find in all the Night's Watch. Why do you imagine that they need your help? Are you such a mighty warrior, or do you carry a grumkin in your pocket to magic up your sword?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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