Seaworth'sShipmate Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 This may be unpopular, but I am a fervent believer in the justice of the Iraq war. Saddam was a terrible dictator, and he denied his people freedom and democracy. Ever since USA liberated those Iraqis, there has been freedom and democracy (especially in Kurdish areas). True, there is some insurgency, but I think the Iraqi government more or less has it under control. Oh, and about Saddam having no WMDS? Feast your eyes!!!!!! http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/10/14/world/middleeast/us-casualties-of-iraq-chemical-weapons.html?_r=0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Wow. He had mustard gas. Someone alert the Kaiser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seaworth'sShipmate Posted June 8, 2015 Author Share Posted June 8, 2015 Wow. He had mustard gas. Someone alert the Kaiser. The Kurds too. Saddam probably wouldn't have shot a nuclear bomb at USA, but since he had a 1-300,000 person body count, its not inconceivable that he would have given his WMD to people who wanted to harm us. Just because he was a "Secular Dictator" ( a dubious proposition at best) he actively funded and supported Hamas. Whose to say he wouldn't have done so for Bin Laden too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 This may be unpopular, but I am a fervent believer in the justice of the Iraq war. Saddam was a terrible dictator, and he denied his people freedom and democracy. Ever since USA liberated those Iraqis, there has been freedom and democracy (especially in Kurdish areas). True, there is some insurgency, but I think the Iraqi government more or less has it under control. Oh, and about Saddam having no WMDS? Feast your eyes!!!!!! http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/10/14/world/middleeast/us-casualties-of-iraq-chemical-weapons.html?_r=0 11/10 Truly epic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
all swedes are racist Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Is this a glitch in the matrix? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seaworth'sShipmate Posted June 8, 2015 Author Share Posted June 8, 2015 The Iraqis got to have at least a taste of freedom, however fleeting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 The Iraqis got to have at least a taste of freedom, however fleeting... Totally worth the 4-6 trillion dollars. Freedom isn't free. It's 4-6 trillion dollars a sip, apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 JamesArryn,So, it is the duty of the United States to unilaterally depose any despotic dictators in power around the world? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seaworth'sShipmate Posted June 8, 2015 Author Share Posted June 8, 2015 JamesArryn,So, it is the duty of the United States to unilaterally depose any despotic dictators in power around the world? No, not all of them. Saddam had violated the terms of the Gulf War cease fire. He agreed to cease and desist WMD production and let inspectors in freely and chose to do neither. Do you think Saddam or his crazy sons wouldn't have acted out from 2003 until the present day? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueMetis Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Totally worth the 4-6 trillion dollars. Freedom isn't free. It's 4-6 trillion dollars a sip, apparently. I thought freedom was a buck o'five. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hayyoth Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 I'm as solid a Repub as there is and even I think Iraq was a grade 1 clusterfuck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horza Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Saddam was a terrible dictator, and he denied his people freedom and democracy. There are a lot of them around, many of them are US clients or strategic partners, as Saddam once was. The US had stood by his gassing of the Kurds at Halabja and allowed the transfer of much of the technology for his biological and chemical weapons programs. The case for invading his country wasn't that he was a terrible dictator, but that he had reassembled his nuclear, chemical and biological weapons programs. It wasn't true, and the people in the Bush administration who pushed for the war didn't care if it was. They had already decided that Iraq should be invaded a decade earlier as part of a grand project to remake the Middle East in the US's image and the opportunity had finally arrived. Ever since USA liberated those Iraqis, there has been freedom and democracy (especially in Kurdish areas). Iraqi Kurdistan's political autonomy was secured by the implacement of the Northern No Fly Zone in 1991, so that part just isn't the case, and that's before we get into the realities of KDP/PUK rule. Iraq has had free elections but they have come in the midst of a brutal civil war that has claimed tens of thousands and seen an increasingly authoritarian and sectarian turn among Iraq's political factions. It's no defence of this situation to say that the people who brought it about by invasion had good intentions. True, there is some insurgency, but I think the Iraqi government more or less has it under control. That's putting it very delicately. Oh, and about Saddam having no WMDS? Feast your eyes!!!!!! http://www.nytimes.c...apons.html?_r=0 Dealt with in my first paragraph. I'll only add here that coupled with your waffling on the scale of Iraq's insurgency this statement could lead people to doubt the good faith in which you're making this argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 I'm as solid a Repub as there is and even I think Iraq was a grade 1 clusterfuck. And that's pretty damning (but I do appreciate you honesty). I can't tell if the OP is serious or not. Assuming that it is, the arguments presented are embarrassing. I mentioned this in the US politics thread, but the relitigation of the Iraq war going on right now is one of the most heartbreaking things I've experienced, particularly this "If only we'd known" line. That may be a not entirely BS defense for some junior Senator, but it is not for the Bush White House or anyone what would defend it. The evidence is overwhelming that the Bush White House was obsessed with finding any justification that they could for invading Iraq after 9/11, so the argument that they were compelled to invade, reservedly, only because of the evidence presented, is world-class BS. Shame on anyone who peddles this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruin Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 No, it wasn't justified. Iraq did have chemical weapons. They used it against the Iranians in the 80s, and against their own people/Kurds. Still, it didn't justify a war. In fact, Sadaam for all his faults, held back the crazies who've joined ISIS. They wanted to continue the war against Iran, but in many ways, Sadaam prevented this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 JA, No, not all of them. Saddam had violated the terms of the Gulf War cease fire. He agreed to cease and desist WMD production and let inspectors in freely and chose to do neither. Do you think Saddam or his crazy sons wouldn't have acted out from 2003 until the present day?They were pretty awful, no argument. Nevertheless, if we are going to use "being a terrible person and a dictator to boot" as an excuse for unilateral invasions we need to go ahead and reinstitute the draft we'll need the troops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 I thought freedom was a buck o'five. Inflation is a muh-fuh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seaworth'sShipmate Posted June 8, 2015 Author Share Posted June 8, 2015 Hmm.. a tad off topic, but to anyone who is old enough to remember, was it possible to travel to pre-invasion Iraq? Its hard to find much info on it,but I get the sense it wasn't. It almost seems like an Arab North Korea, quite frankly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Possible and done frequently. Still possible and still done frequently as many ISIS converts, American contractors, and journalists will tell you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Marquis de Leech Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 The pro-war arguments at the time (was it really 12 years ago?): - If we don't invade, Saddam will use WMDs against neighbours or even us (cue hysterical imagery of Iraq nuking the US).- Better to fight them over there so we don't fight them over here.- Saddam is violating UN resolutions. The "Freedom!!!111" thing wasn't pushed until after the war started. Mind you, as was pointed out at the time: - There was no evidence that Saddam had the capacity to launch anything at neighbours, let alone over oceans.- If Saddam had WMDs, he's have used them... against the invaders.- Nor was he inclined to give them to terrorists (no state would ever do this, because it means you lose control of them).- Saddam was enemies with Bin Laden, and had nothing to do with Al Qaeda. Getting rid of him did Al Qaeda (and Iran) a favour.- The invasion was not approved by the UN, and as such was illegal under international law. Bush and Blair are war criminals.- Saudi Arabia is oppressive and sponsors terrorism... where's the US invasion there? Add in thousands of American lives, plus hundreds of thousands of Iraqis, plus trillions of dollars, plus the distraction from Afghanistan and the hunt for Bin Laden... the entire thing was beyond stupidity. Far more irrational than even Vietnam, the war it most resembles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Marquis de Leech Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Hmm.. a tad off topic, but to anyone who is old enough to remember, was it possible to travel to pre-invasion Iraq? Its hard to find much info on it,but I get the sense it wasn't. It almost seems like an Arab North Korea, quite frankly Yes, it was possible, and done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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