Caspoi Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Ser Belwas the Strong@ I must assume that you are trolling, Robert's reign bringing peace and prosperity, Robb being betrayed by his mother, Renly being "crushed" by Stannis, Joffrey being considered competent and ranked higher than half the others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daendrew Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 The best monarch has to be the poisonous butterflies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mediterraneo Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Renly had zero war experience, that's why plebs like you die in wars. Then he was very lucky: actually no one died following him. The most of the men dying in battle were under his very experienced badass brother, obviously a political and strategical genius. Stannis also sports the highest number of attrition losses to the moment - frozen and starving most of all. The wars aren't ended, though, things may still happen. It could yet be that Stannis's blood sorceress will win more things for him! But even so, apart from very bad command decisions taken, Stannis is unable and unwilling to search for support and consensus: all is entitled to him, and who doesn't comply just because is a traitor to be executed. The only two rulers we saw sharing this view were his nephew Jeoffrey Baratheon and his great uncle Aerys the Mad. With the last king able to cause a civil war against his dinasty, Stannis chose to share the fire as his preferred way of executing innocents. Quite clearly the worst king between the adults. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugorfonics Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Why the Balon hate? A good monarch has law and order to his subjects, all ironislands hailed him as king. They're supposed to juggle religion warfare and politics, Balon did this. How many soldiers did Balon lose obtaining Winterfell, Moat Caillian, Deepwood Moat, etc? Not much, compared to Joffrey, Robb and Stannis' forces. If this was a rank of best kings for Westetos, it'd be different; but as king of the islands he did a damn good job. He didn't handle his heir as well as he wanted, but compared to the other 12 (or 13, I still say Drogo was king) he's normal in that regard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mediterraneo Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Renly had zero war experience, that's why plebs like you die in wars. Then he was very lucky: actually no one died following him. The most of the men dying in battle were under his very experienced badass brother, obviously a political and strategical genius. Stannis also sports the highest number of attrition losses to the moment - frozen and starving most of all. The wars aren't ended, though, things may still happen. It could yet be that Stannis's blood sorceress will win more things for him! But even so, apart from very bad command decisions taken, Stannis is unable and unwilling to search for support and consensus: all is entitled to him, and who doesn't comply just because is a traitor to be executed. The only two rulers we saw sharing this view were his nephew Jeoffrey Baratheon and his great uncle Aerys the Mad. With the last king able to cause a civil war against his dinasty, Stannis chose to share the fire as his preferred way of executing innocents. Quite clearly the worst king between the adults. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelittledragonthatcould Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Why the Balon hate? A good monarch has law and order to his subjects, all ironislands hailed him as king. They're supposed to juggle religion warfare and politics, Balon did this. How many soldiers did Balon lose obtaining Winterfell, Moat Caillian, Deepwood Moat, etc? Not much, compared to Joffrey, Robb and Stannis' forces. If this was a rank of best kings for Westetos, it'd be different; but as king of the islands he did a damn good job. He didn't handle his heir as well as he wanted, but compared to the other 12 (or 13, I still say Drogo was king) he's normal in that regard. These things are always popularity contests. That is why Balon is so low and Robb and Stannis so high. Personally I'd put Balon as second, just behind Mance. Few casualties, conquered new lands and complete support of the Ironborn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caspoi Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Hugorfincs@ Possibly from a tactical point of view (but bear in mind that taking Winterfell was never part of Balon's originall plan and thus he can noyt be credited with that and most of the Ironborn were ousted pretty soon) but from a strategic one thewhole decicion to attack the North was moronic and would never have lasted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugorfonics Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 These things are always popularity contests. That is why Balon is so low and Robb and Stannis so high. Personally I'd put Balon as second, just behind Mance. Few casualties, conquered new lands and complete support of the Ironborn. lol, true. But Balon had a plan, it wasn't great and requires lots of curve balls, but it was coherent. Mance knew that breaking the wall would bring Others south. He also knew that fighting southerners is suicide. If I was in his position I'd be at a loss too, but that doesn't change that Mances plan was doomed on all sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Tarly Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Balon was foolish. Even Asha thought so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelittledragonthatcould Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Balon was foolish. Even Asha thought so... Did she? When did she say that? And what was the context? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frey Pie Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Mance is great and everything but really? He was class for a while, uniting everyone. He was fair and well liked. But then what? A supernatural army of demons are attacking his people. What does he do? Start a war with other people. What's his plan? Bring down the wall, the only thing protecting anyone from the others. I'm sorry but...how is that a good king? Overall, I don't know the King's well but they're all fairly poor or had bad endings. Balon was an idiot but at least he had support. Robb made idiotic decisions but was loved. Same with Renly. Stannis makes some good some bad, but is not loved. I'll give it to Tommen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugorfonics Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Hugorfincs@ Possibly from a tactical point of view (but bear in mind that taking Winterfell was never part of Balon's originall plan and thus he can noyt be credited with that and most of the Ironborn were ousted pretty soon) but from a strategic one thewhole decicion to attack the North was moronic and would never have lasted. Theon took Winterfell in Balons name, like Tywin fought Roose for Joff, it's all kings work. The ironborn are hated in the north, but everyone hates Stannis and he's in the north as well, not to mention Boltons and Freys. I think Balons war was splendidBalon was foolish. Even Asha thought so... Asha thinks all sorts of things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugorfonics Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Did she? When did she say that? And what was the context? In the kingsmoot she wanted to abandon Balons conquest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Tarly Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Did she? When did she say that? And what was the context? Can't remember where. She thinks to herself that her father was a noble ruler of the ironborn, but that his plan to try to conquer the north was unwise. (someone is her POV in book 4 i believe) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelittledragonthatcould Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Mance is great and everything but really? He was class for a while, uniting everyone. He was fair and well liked. But then what? A supernatural army of demons are attacking his people. What does he do? Start a war with other people. What's his plan? Bring down the wall, the only thing protecting anyone from the others. I'm sorry but...how is that a good king? He was a King of the people trapped on the other side of that Wall. Getting his people into the South saved some, they all would have died otherwise. He united a disparate number of people under his rule and his target was to get them on the other side. He did this, he achieved his desired goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Tarly Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 In the kingsmoot she wanted to abandon Balons conquest I'm talking about earlier in her AFFC pov though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnViserion Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 If I were to rank them as leaders/rulers, this is where I'd say they stand. 1. Mance Rayder 2. Stannis Baratheon 3. Daenerys Targaryen 4. Robb Stark 5. Euron Greyjoy 6. Robert Baratheon 7. Renly Baratheon 8. Aegon Targaryen 9. Balon Greyjoy 10. Tommen Baratheon 11. Aurane Waters 12. Joffrey Baratheon 13. Viserys Targaryen My list is pretty much the same, only I'd switch Joffrey and Viserys. Viserys had it awful tough growing up. I think this made him more vicious than he otherwise would have been, whereas Joffrey grew up having everything he could want (except a father figure, which Viserys also didn't have) and still was an embarrassment of a king. Interesting thread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelittledragonthatcould Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Can't remember where. She thinks to herself that her father was a noble ruler of the ironborn, but that his plan to try to conquer the north was unwise. (someone is her POV in book 4 i believe) You said she thought he was foolish. That never happened. If my father still lived, Moat Cailin would never have fallen. Balon Greyjoy had known that the Moat was the key to holding the north. Euron knew that as well; he simply did not care. No more than he cared what happened to Deepwood Motte or Torrhen's Square. "Euron has no interest in Balon's conquests. --ADWD In facts he probably proved one of the wisest kings in the series: "No man has ever died from bending his knee," her father had once told her. "He who kneels may rise again, blade in hand. He who will not kneel stays dead, stiff legs and all." Balon Greyjoy had proved the truth of his own words when his first rebellion failed; the kraken bent the knee to stag and direwolf, only to rise again when Robert Baratheon and Eddard Stark were dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caspoi Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Hugorfincs@ Theon took Winterfell against Balon's wishes, and how is the North hating him relevant to what I said. It is not just him being unable to keep the large lands in check while everyone hates him(thank you for pointing that out) but simply the fact that whoever ends up winning the Iron Throne will be gunning for him next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugorfonics Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Hugorfincs@ Theon took Winterfell against Balon's wishes, and how is the North hating him relevant to what I said. It is not just him being unable to keep the large lands in check while everyone hates him(thank you for pointing that out) but simply the fact that whoever ends up winning the Iron Throne will be gunning for him next. When does Balon say this? Whoever holds the throne must watch their back against the next wannabe usurper. Kingslaning contemplated letting Balon rock and a much more intriguing one from Balon Greyjoy on Pyke, who styled himself King of the Isles and the North. He invited King Joffrey to send an envoy to the Iron Islands to fix the borders between their realms and discuss a possible alliance. Tyrion read the letter three times and set it aside. Lord Balon's longships would have been a great help against the fleet sailing up from Storm's End, but they were thousands of leagues away on the wrong side of Westeros, and Tyrion was far from certain that he wanted to give away half the realm. Perhaps I should spill this one in Cersei's lap, or take it to the council. "That we recognize his kingship and grant him everything north of the Neck." Lord Redwyne laughed. "What is there north of the Neck that any sane man would want? If Greyjoy will trade swords and sails for stone and snow, I say do it, and count ourselves lucky." "Truly," agreed Mace Tyrell. "That's what I would do. Let King Balon finish the northmen whilst we finish Stannis." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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