Steven Erikson's Dust of Dreams

[Blackfyre15]

Jus finished dust of dreams 5 mins ago. i must say i wasnt as impresed with it as i thought i would be. still good but i think erikson has too many points of view at one time

[duchess of malfi]

Better than TTH (but the phone book is better than most of TTH ;) ) but still not as good as some of the earlier books in the series. Some of the scenes with the Barghast made me feel ill.

Mutilating and gang raping women? Ugh. Getting to see the first part of the gang rape through the POVs from the victim and the first rapist? PUKE. I really really really did not need to read that. Nearly made me give up on the book, and I still might give up on the series (though that would be from a variety of reasons, not just from the rapes).

[wolverine]

Better than TTH (but the phone book is better than most of TTH ;) )

Try telling that to people on the Malazan Forum's like I have. Apparently, having such sentiment, is proof of your idiotic ignorance and lack of taste.

[Caligula_K]

Jus finished dust of dreams 5 mins ago. i must say i wasnt as impresed with it as i thought i would be. still good but i think erikson has too many points of view at one time

Seriously, this is getting more and more annoying, especially during battle scenes. Does Erikson have extreme ADD? Doesn't he realize that maybe it's not a coincidence that his most celebrated battle scenes (Chain of Dogs and Capustan) are largely written from one to a few POVs? And I realize that part of the appeal of Malazan is the humongous cast- the series is after all epic on crack. But why should we spend just as much time with random Malazan marine #7483 as with Fiddler, who is as close to a main character as we're going to get for this series? Why do twenty characters need to make a point that one would have been able to make alone? So frustrating.

[blackzoid]

Try telling that to people on the Malazan Forum's like I have. Apparently, having such sentiment, is proof of your idiotic ignorance and lack of taste.

I don't know if that is a reference to me specifically and our disagreement over that book, Wolverine, but I think that tarring everybody on that forum over our argument is a bit much.

There is plenty of disagreement over the merits of that book on that forum. A lot of posters did complain about the book. Erikson himself mentions the fact that the book was not 100% accepted by the fans (though he did not mention MalazanEmpire.com)

[polishgenius]

Try telling that to people on the Malazan Forum's like I have. Apparently, having such sentiment, is proof of your idiotic ignorance and lack of taste.

Yeah, I'm with blackzoid, I don't know where you're coming from on this one. There's been plenty of criticism of the book on there, and saying you didn't like it much (or that it's your least favourite, anyway) will get you at least as much support as disagreement.

[wolverine]

Yeah, I'm with blackzoid, I don't know where you're coming from on this one. There's been plenty of criticism of the book on there, and saying you didn't like it much (or that it's your least favourite, anyway) will get you at least as much support as disagreement.

Sorry to generalize. I seemed to meet a lot of disagreement over there and haven't really been back. I will try to choose my words more carefully as not to stereotype other readers and start meaningless arguments I am trying to avoid.

I would just note that saying something is your least favorite of a set is entirely different than that you didn't like it. My least favorite Ninja Turtle is Leonardo, but he's still awesome.

[Curethan]

Some of the scenes with the Barghast made me feel ill.

Agree x100. Really seemed unnecessary and over the top. Yuk.

[jurble]

Just started reading DoD, and after reading all the Malazan book, it still amazes me that I have no idea how the hell this world works. This Deck of Dragons shit still confuses the hell out of me.

[Kat]

Finally finished this book, and I think having a year since finishing TtH hurt me. I should have read up on who people were because I was suffering from a severe 'who the fuck are these people?' problem every other section or so. This series has really fucked with my reading comprehension in the last 2 books, I think.

I think the worst parts, for me, were the Snake ones. Badalle- you need to quit writing poetry. I have no idea where these kids are coming from and I don't particularly care. In fact, I can't remember where they are by the end of the book...and don't really care either. Should I? I think that after Capustan I was through with cannibals. (Is that what was going on here? Help!)

Also, can someone clarify for me what's the difference between the Elder Gods and the other ones? At one point Olar Ethil (I think) mentioned that she was known by all these other names, including Burn. I thought Burn was supposed to be asleep, and if she woke up everyone was fucked, but Olar Ethil is definitely awake. Whereas one of the other Elder Gods (forget which one--maybe the Errant) was referring to the other gods and ascendants as upstarts, which implies that, well, they're different.

Not really annoyed with the philosophizing by various soldiers. Although when one of the Barghast, after it was revealed that the Barghast are all total assholes, was like, "Maybe our way of life is making us total assholes and we should all just die," I was like, "Yeah, pretty much. When's Tool gonna come back and kill everyone?"

Hetan had pretty much the worst character death so far. Gah. The hobbling thing, I can't decide which was a worse addition to the books, that, or the numerous Janath torture scenes from RG.

[kungtotte]

There is no way of making sense of the pantheon in the Malazan world. Save yourself the headache and just don't bother trying to puzzle out how they all relate to each other, what different names they go by, who was there first, what warrens (if any) they are connected to and so on.

[Kat]

Oh I stopped trying to figure out the warrens a few years ago. Somehow the pantheons made a little more sense. Well, they didn't, but they were slightly more transparent so I thought I had it figured out. (Wrong.)

[jurble]

Meh, it isn't that bad. Gods are Ascendants with worshipers. You can be Ascendant and not a God, but once you get worshipers, you become start becoming even more powerful. Some Gods skip the Ascendant phase and go straight from mortal to god, like Utkovian or whatever his name was, just because of worshipers. It's usually easier for an Ascendant to become a god simply because he or she can impress people with awesome feats. Using that power, you can grant divine magic and guff. In order to keep you within the rules of the world, the Master of the Deck assigns you a House and a position. Warrens are independent of Gods, but most Gods have Warrens since they beat up the previous rulers and take over. Afaik, Dassem Ultor doesn't have one, but he still is a God. Warrens access depends on several factors: If a God rules a warren, he can grant/refuse access to its powers, if a God doesn't, it's free game for drawing on for power. Some Gods only let their priests access their own warren, other Gods are like "yeah, whatever." Warrens reproduce like sponges, through budding.

[jurble]

Alright, so I started reading this book, finally:

The realm where all the wolves are dead, is that our world? Seems like some of those ghosts were Dire Wolves.

[Werthead]

Meh, it isn't that bad. Gods are Ascendants with worshipers. You can be Ascendant and not a God, but once you get worshipers, you become start becoming even more powerful. Some Gods skip the Ascendant phase and go straight from mortal to god, like Utkovian or whatever his name was, just because of worshipers. It's usually easier for an Ascendant to become a god simply because he or she can impress people with awesome feats. Using that power, you can grant divine magic and guff. In order to keep you within the rules of the world, the Master of the Deck assigns you a House and a position. Warrens are independent of Gods, but most Gods have Warrens since they beat up the previous rulers and take over. Afaik, Dassem Ultor doesn't have one, but he still is a God. Warrens access depends on several factors: If a God rules a warren, he can grant/refuse access to its powers, if a God doesn't, it's free game for drawing on for power. Some Gods only let their priests access their own warren, other Gods are like "yeah, whatever." Warrens reproduce like sponges, through budding.

On top of that, the Elder Gods are different to the later, younger ones. Much more powerful, I believe, certainly far more aloof and, IIRC, they predate life on the planet. There was speculation they came to the Malazan world from other dimensions/planets (like the Crippled God did much later).

In addition, a major difference is Ascendants can continue to live in the mortal world with no problem. Once an Ascendant becomes a God, they become highly vulnerable to destruction and death in the mortal world, and will prefer to spend their time in another realm.

[russjass]

But then some of the Elder Gods have holds, which are like the predecessor of houses, but also at the same time the predecessor of warrens? Except kurald Galain, which is an elder warren. And there is a matching Hold of darkness, but it isnt a hold, it is wandering, which came before holds. And this is imprisoned inside a warren, which is inside a sword, which was made by the brother of the god who made the warrens out of his own blood. Even though some of the Warrens, like Starveld Demelain, predate him. And are also holds. But not warrens. And there is something to do with cards and tiles, but I wont talk about that bit, cos it is confusing.

Is that right?

I dont even try to understand all the background anymore, just enjoy the stories. I have also given up on all of the plotlines being tied up.

[jurble]

Holds and Warrens seem to be interchangeable. That is to say, both are the body of K'rul, the fact that Warrens are much more organized seems to be something that was imposed on them as human beliefs changed. Elder Warrens are Holds that converted directly into Warrens, like Omtose Phellack. While other Warrens are outgrowths of old Holds. Like Telas came from Tellan, which probably came from Kurald Thyrllan iirc.

[russjass]

Holds are the body of Krull too?

Are you sure? Because the Errant, Master of the Holds, was a contemporary of Krull, Sister of Cold Nights, Draconus, Mael etc.

So was he something else before he was the Master of the Holds?

[jurble]

The Errant is an Elder God, but maybe K'rul showed up even earlier? Or maybe the Errant was something else before he was Master of the Holds, just a regular super-powered entity. If Holds aren't connected to Warrens, wouldn't make much sense. If you recall, in one of the books, they're traveling through a Hold (The Ice Hold,Omtose Phellack's daddy, pretty sure) and they find that Jaghut skeleton sitting on a throne surrounded by Jaghut corpses. It's implied that as his people died, Hood, the Lord of the Ice Hold, turned into Hood, the God of Death. And then they keep walking forward, they find themselves at the bottom of Hood's Warren.

[russjass]

Yeah, this is why I gave up trying to understand the background. All it did was frustrate and get in the way of the stories. Too many "maybes" than will never be resolved.