The Height Hierarchy

[Bennis of the Brown Shield]

Again about the average heights. I didn't even notice this in an old post:

What? Where?! Where did you get those stats from?

5'8" - 5'9" (173-175 cm) is average height for men today in most European countries and USA, it's lower in some other parts of the world. There are only a handful of countries (Netherlands, countries from the Dinaric area like Montenegro, Serbia, Croatia, Nordic countries...) where average height for men today is higher than that and close to 6' or around 6'.

In the real life Middle Ages, the average heights are now judged to have been about 2 inches or 5 cm lower than that. In the British Isles at least, it's believed the average height for men overall was around 5'7" (170 cm). For a lowborn men, it would have certainly been somewhat lower than that. For a noble, somewhat higher. Even the nobles were not as tall on average as people today, since their nutrition and life standards were still lower than today, and no way were lowborn people in the Middle Ages the same average height as people today!

It depends on which part of the Middle Ages as well. People were generally a bit taller during the early medieval "Dark Ages" part (years 500-1000) than they were in the high and late medieval periods most people mean when talking about the Middle Ages.

[Jon Fossoway]

Hoster Blackwood is nearly seven feet tall BTW.

[Ben H'gahr]

Any1 ever noticed the Mountain's stats:

He is 8 feet tall (roughly 243 cm) and has a weight of 30 stone (190kg) according to canon.

That means he is a skinny bastard.

For example show-mountain Haftor Julius Bjornson is about 203cm and has the same weight.

Other Powerlifters / Strongmen as comparison:

Brian Shaw: 203cm - 197kg (slightly more weight, much shorter)

Eddie Hall: 189cm - 179kg (a dwarf compared to the Mountain but only 11kg lighter)

James Henderson: 196cm - 180kg

Forfi Olaffson: 201cm - 190kg

I could give you more stats, but what I wanna say is that in order to have Mountain-skull crushing strenght at THAT height, your weight must increase more quicker than linearly.

Compare w/the Wrestler Nathan Jones: 201cm and 140kg. When I was training very hard 6x a week, took creatine, ate for a family of four, had two workouts a day and was able to sleep 9h every night (four years ago) I >>roughly<< looked like him, with 190cm height and had only about 105kg (~8% bodyfat). (Needless to say I did not look like that for very long).

That is, if you wanna "look good" (big/strong/whatever) at 201cm height compared to 190cm you need to have about 35kg more bodyweight!

The Mountain would need to exceed 250kg bodyweight easily, maybe even reach up to 300kg (660lb).

His arms and legs are so long that he needs an incredibly huge amount of muscle to look as depicted in the books, irrespective of having the strength to carry arms and armour as depicted.

Also as a comparison: I think book Robert in his prime looked more like the latest show Mountain, a little shorter.

tl:dr the Mountain needs more oats, brown rice, peanut butter, full milk, beans, coconut oil to and a healthy does of beef/horse/elk every day to finally put on some muscle^^

[majorna]

I remember being a bit miffed in a pedantic way about that, too. I read the books during my bodybuilding years and could not for the life of me fathom the incongruence between Gregor's height and being described as having a bull-like physique, and only weighing in at a measly 420 lbs.

I think it's clear, however, that this was merely an oversight/lacking research on the side of G.R.R.M. Had he any chance to revise the weight thing, I say he'd probably go with 40 stone (560 lbs, about 255 kg).

[Shierak Qiya]

Tallest of the Characters

1. Gregor - 8'0"
   
2. Sandor - 6'7"
   
3. Greatjon - 6'10"
   
4. Robert - 6'6"
   
5. Wun Wun - 12'
   

[Annara Snow]

The Mountain is NOT 8 feet tall. He is said to be "closer to 8 feet than to 7 feet." So, most likely between 7'7" and 7'10".

As for his weight, GRRM is obviously not good with guessing weights of tall people.

[Ben H'gahr]

Not only of people, also the Wall itself is a little very high.

But still: 7'7" or 7'10" and "30 stone" = still a skinny bastard.

[twikee]

Good grief! If I were in Westeros I'd probably be steeped on by the biggies and what you consider as smallies! I'm barely 5 feet!

[naseridrl]

Is Mya Stone's height ever referenced?  I always imagine her as quite tall but I can't remember if that is my perception from the text or just her being of Robert's blood.

[Universal Sword Donor]

The Mountain is NOT 8 feet tall. He is said to be "closer to 8 feet than to 7 feet." So, most likely between 7'7" and 7'10".

As for his weight, GRRM is obviously not good with guessing weights of tall people.

 

Not only of people, also the Wall itself is a little very high. 

But still: 7'7" or 7'10" and "30 stone" = still a skinny bastard. 

 

Shaquille O'Neal was 7'1" and weighed around 300 lbs. Toss another 6 inches and 120 lbs on him, and I doubt anyone would be calling him skinny.

[Taenqyrhae]

I think a lot of these heights are being overestimated. It just seems highly improbable that there are so many tall people, especially given that this is the medieval ages. The tallest person I know is 6'5; I only know about ten or fifteen people who are over six feet. So what's the probability that ASOIAF would have a half-dozen characters who are over 6'6?

I'd put the Mountain at around 7 feet, and push everyone else down proportionally. The really tall people (Hound, Brienne, Robert) are probably around 6'4.

I know a lot of tall people - I'm 6'6", one of my grandfathers was 6'7", the other 6'4", my brother-in-law was 6'4".  My friend is 6'3" and most people think of him as tall, lol.

[Taenqyrhae]

 

 

Shaquille O'Neal was 7'1" and weighed around 300 lbs. Toss another 6 inches and 120 lbs on him, and I doubt anyone would be calling him skinny.

There is no way Shaquille O'Neal at his beefiest was 7'1" and 300.  People often underestimate the weights of tall people.  Most of my adult life, I was between 270 and 290 pounds, and nobody would have described me as fat, though I was not thin or lithe.  The Rock was my exact same height and weight for a long time - 6'5" and 270 pounds, but of course he had better muscle mass.  I did get fat for a while after getting married and peaked at around 370 pounds, but even at that weight I was more of a Robert Baratheon than a Manderly.  Now I am 6'6" (my growth has only slowed with adulthood) and 230 and I am thin, ribs visible, concave stomach, technically I am still overweight but if I lost much more weight I would look unhealthily thin.  

[Universal Sword Donor]

There is no way Shaquille O'Neal at his beefiest was 7'1" and 300.  People often underestimate the weights of tall people.  Most of my adult life, I was between 270 and 290 pounds, and nobody would have described me as fat, though I was not thin or lithe.  The Rock was my exact same height and weight for a long time - 6'5" and 270 pounds, but of course he had better muscle mass.  I did get fat for a while after getting married and peaked at around 370 pounds, but even at that weight I was more of a Robert Baratheon than a Manderly.  Now I am 6'6" (my growth has only slowed with adulthood) and 230 and I am thin, ribs visible, concave stomach, technically I am still overweight but if I lost much more weight I would look unhealthily thin.  

 

I never said at his beefiest. At his pre-draft workout, he was 7'1" and weighed 303. Scaled up another 6-8 inches, he'd be pushing 380 or so.

 

Tell me this man is skinny:

 

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2010/1105/bos_g_shaq92_200.jpg

 

People who think the mountain would be skinny are huffing. At 6'6" and 370, that makes you heavier than Oliver Miller. 

 

http://31.media.tumblr.com/7ff491a03323f742d92358d0ee0a2af5/tumblr_inline_mzder1Tg6v1qccki6.jpg

 

Definitely more Wyman than Robert (unless you mean fat robert). I'm a large guy too and people usually guess I weigh much less than I do. I stand by what I said.

[Chocs]

 

I never said at his beefiest. At his pre-draft workout, he was 7'1" and weighed 303. Scaled up another 6-8 inches, he'd be pushing 380 or so.

 

Tell me this man is skinny:

 

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2010/1105/bos_g_shaq92_200.jpg

 

People who think the mountain would be skinny are huffing. At 6'6" and 370, that makes you heavier than Oliver Miller. 

 

http://31.media.tumblr.com/7ff491a03323f742d92358d0ee0a2af5/tumblr_inline_mzder1Tg6v1qccki6.jpg

 

Definitely more Wyman than Robert (unless you mean fat robert). I'm a large guy too and people usually guess I weigh much less than I do. I stand by what I said.

 

Looks skinny to me.

[Annara Snow]

There is no way Shaquille O'Neal at his beefiest was 7'1" and 300.  People often underestimate the weights of tall people.  Most of my adult life, I was between 270 and 290 pounds, and nobody would have described me as fat, though I was not thin or lithe.  The Rock was my exact same height and weight for a long time - 6'5" and 270 pounds, but of course he had better muscle mass.  I did get fat for a while after getting married and peaked at around 370 pounds, but even at that weight I was more of a Robert Baratheon than a Manderly.  Now I am 6'6" (my growth has only slowed with adulthood) and 230 and I am thin, ribs visible, concave stomach, technically I am still overweight but if I lost much more weight I would look unhealthily thin.  

 

Arvydas Sabonis is 2.21 m (between 7'3" and 7'4") - that's just a few inches away from the Mountain in height, since he's just said to be closer to 8 feet than 7 feet, so he could be 7'7" for all we know - and his weight is listed on Wikipedia as 132 kg/290 lbs (though they don't say at which point in his career that weight was measured). Taller than Shaq, not as beefy as Shaq as its beefiest (since almost no one is), but certainly far from skinny. He always looked like a big guy to me, not one of the tall but skinny basketball players. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18tnToDLHV4

[Universal Sword Donor]

 

Looks skinny to me.

 

That's absurd

[Taenqyrhae]

Skinny compared to a warrior, especially that Sabonis guy.  

 

Basketball players are not good examples for what a typical tall person's proportions would be.  Basketball players will always tend to be long limbed for their height, and of average or lower weight.  Look at 7 foot tall football players or just random tall guys to get an idea what would be normal.

 

[Annara Snow]

Skinny compared to a warrior, especially that Sabonis guy.  
 
Basketball players are not good examples for what a typical tall person's proportions would be.  Basketball players will always tend to be long limbed for their height, and of average or lower weight.  Look at 7 foot tall football players or just random tall guys to get an idea what would be normal.

 

Random tall guys are long limbed. It's extremely rare to find a tall person who is not. And if they are heavier than an average (in terms of build) basketball player (not counting guys with really reedy builds like Shawn Bradley or Manute Bol), it is usually because they are fatter, rather than stronger/more muscular.

An average tall person is definitely not built like a strongman. Though Shaq at his beefiest would give strongmen a run for their money.

I know almost nothing about American football or its players, or what their 7 footers look like. But I'd be extremely surprised if they are also not long limbed, since a person that tall has to be by default.

And "skinny compares to a warrior"? Really? Medieval warriors came in different shapes and sizes, and the majority was not build like a strongman, any more than modern soldiers are. They were no doubt athletic and well trained, but their purpose was battle, rather than lifting heavy stuff and showing off their bulging muscles to the audience. I doubt that many strongmen or bodybuilders would do well in battle, medieval or modern.

[Taenqyrhae]

Random tall guys are long limbed. It's extremely rare to find a tall person who is not. And if they are heavier than an average (in terms of build) basketball player (not counting guys with really reedy builds like Shawn Bradley or Manute Bol), it is usually because they are fatter, rather than stronger/more muscular.

An average tall person is definitely not built like a strongman. Though Shaq at his beefiest would give strongmen a run for their money.

I know almost nothing about American football or its players, or what their 7 footers look like. But I'd be extremely surprised if they are also not long limbed, since a person that tall has to be by default.

And "skinny compares to a warrior"? Really? Medieval warriors came in different shapes and sizes, and the majority was not build like a strongman, any more than modern soldiers are. They were no doubt athletic and well trained, but their purpose was battle, rather than lifting heavy stuff and showing off their bulging muscles to the audience. I doubt that many strongmen or bodybuilders would do well in battle, medieval or modern.

There's a wide variety of body shapes, and every example given so far has been a basketball player.

Not all tall guys have uniformly long limbs.  I have fairly long arms, but very short legs for my height - about a 33" inseam.  There are men under 6' tall who have longer legs than I.  Since short legs are stronger for supporting a heavy, more muscular torso, I'd be willing to wager that most of the really tall and strong warriors described in the book are not built like basketball players, and would tend to being guys with stronger, shorter limbs that can more easily carry around the weight of armor.  Being able to block a jump shot easily doesn't help a warrior much, but having strong legs and a muscular torso would.

[Ben H'gahr]

 

 

Shaquille O'Neal was 7'1" and weighed around 300 lbs. Toss another 6 inches and 120 lbs on him, and I doubt anyone would be calling him skinny.

 

but Shaq is also very very far from being as muscular as the Hound is described. You seem to underestimate the weight of 120lb - that's round 55kg. 55kg of more muscle (and other tissue) to 15cm more height is a drastic increase in size and weight.