The Height Hierarchy

[Bironic]

I wonder if Shireen in the future will grow to b the tallest woman considering how tall her parents are? She may not have Brienne's build to go with the height but I think its possible she might grow to be taller or as tall.

Does greyscale have an influence on growth? I

[The Holy Goat]

I think I might be drunk on mare's milk. My mistake, read cm as lb. Long night. :love:

Oh. I got so confused there for a moment.

When was Robb described as tall? He was shorter than his mom IIRC.

In A Game of Thrones he was shorter than her, yes. But even then Catelyn thinks of him as being almost her height (and Catelyn herself seem to be a fairly statuesque woman). And Robb was often said to be growing taller. By the time of his death in ASOS I personally imagine he was close to 5'10" (178 cm)

As for my guesses:

House Stark

Ned: 5'11" (180 cm)

Robb: 5'10" (178 cm)

Sansa: 5'8" (173 cm)

Arya: 4'11" (150 cm)

Bran: 4'7" (140 cm)

Rickon: 3'8" (112 cm)

Jon: 5'11" (180 cm)

Benjen: 5'11" (180 cm)

House Greyjoy

Balon: 5'11" (180 cm)

Asha: 5'9" (175 cm)

Theon: 5'10" (178 cm)

Euron: 5'11" (180 cm)

Victarion: 6'10" (208 cm)

Aeron: 6'5" (195 cm)

House Lannister

Tywin: 6'2" (188 cm)

Cersei: 5'8" (173 cm)

Jaime: 6'2" (188 cm)

Tyrion: 3'11" (120 cm)

Kevan: 6'1" (185 cm)

Lancel: 6'0" (183 cm)

Genna: 5'10" (178 cm)

Daven: 6'2" (188 cm)

House Tully

Hoster: 6'1" (185 cm)

Catelyn: 5'9" (175 cm)

Lysa: 5'8" (173 cm)

Edmure: 6'1" (185 cm)

Brynden: 6'1" (185 cm)

House Arryn:

Jon: 6'1" (183 cm)

Robert: 3'8" (112 cm)

House Targaryen

Aegon: 6'0" (183 cm)

Viserys: 5'10" (178 cm)

Daenerys: 5'3" (160 cm)

Aemon: 5'5" (165 cm)

House Baratheon

Robert: 6'6" (198 cm)

Joffrey: 5'8" (173 cm)

Myrcella: 4'8" (142 cm)

Tommen: 4'5" (135 cm)

Mya: 5'9" (175 cm)

Edric: 5'0" (152 cm)

Stannis: 6'3" (190 cm)

Shireen: 4'11" (150 cm)

Renly: 6'3" (190 cm)

House Tyrell

Mace: 6'1" (185 cm)

Garlan: 6'2" (188 cm)

Loras: 6'1" (185 cm)

Margaery: 5'8" (173 cm)

Janna: 5'7" (170 cm)

Elinor: 5'9" (175 cm)

Leo: 5'10" (178 cm)

Megga: 5'5" (165 cm)

Alla: 5'3" (160 cm)

House Martell

Doran: 5'7" (170 cm)

Arianne: 5'2" (157 cm)

Quentyn: 5'7" (170 cm)

Trystane: 5'0" (152 cm)

Oberyn: 6'0" (183 cm)

Obara: 5'11" (180 cm)

Nymeria: 5'10" (178 cm)

Tyene: 5'7" (170 cm)

Sarella: 5'10" (178 cm)

Elia: 5'4" (163 cm)

Bonus

House Bolton

Roose: 5'10" (178 cm)

Ramsay: 6'1" (185 cm)

House Baelish

Petyr: 5'6" (168 cm)

[Ser Lepus]

I'm not sure if this has been done elsewhere (though it likely has, this board seems to have been around for awhile) but I think it'd be fun to list everyone, from tallest to shortest, and give approximate heights if you feel you've got it figured out.

For example, Brienne (by Martin's own words) is about as tall as Robert, who was a confirmed 6'6", but slightly shorter than the Hound.

So I've always pegged the Hound to be around 6'7"-6'9", but no taller. I'll say 6'8". That's also about how tall I'd say Dunk is. Closer to seven feet than to 6, and quite a bit taller than the vast majority of people he meets. There's also his being taller than even the Laughing Storm, who was so obviously a physical stand-in for Robert it was stupid.

Jaime and Renly are both described as tall men, though in both cases shorter than Brienne. So to them, I'd say about 6'2". Martin seemed to think of them as alike in physical size here: http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/Brienne_of_Tarth/ and going off various descriptions that seems roughly accurate.

Victarion "towers" over other men, but is himself shorter than Andrik, who is described as a giant of a man. Victation I'd peg at 6'9" and Andrik at 7 feet.

Stannis is a weird one. Hes never been compared, directly, to either of his brothers but Jon describes him as towering over him. Stannis I'd say would be about 6'4".

So we've got Gregor at the top at a confirmed what, 7'10"?

Gregor Clegane - 7'10"

Greatjon Umber/Hodor/Andrik - 7'

Victarion Greyjoy - 6'9"

Sandor Clegane/Ser Duncan the Tall/Bronze Yohn Royce - 6'8"

Robert Baratheon/Brienne of Tarth - 6'6"

Who can fill in some more blanks? Eddard would have been what, 5'10"? So..."tall" but still in the average range.

There are too many people above two meters/6'7". I think anybody above 180 cm/5'11" would be considered a very tall man, and anybody above 190 cm/6'3" would be called a giant.

Only a few freaks of nature like Duncan the Tall, Gregor Clegane, Greatjon and Hodor, the tallest men of their generation, should be above two meters / 6'7".

We have to take into account that, while the nobles had a proteine-rich diet and where closer to modern average heights than their peasant counterparts, the nobles only made a small percentage of the population, so really tall people would be rare.

Let say 1% of all people are nobles, and that those have the same average height as modern people in US, meaning that about 20% of all male nobles would be above 180 cm, but only 1'4% of male nobles would be above 190 cm and only 0'1% would be above two meters.

That means that only 0,2% of all males would be nobles above 180 cm, 0,014% of all males would be nobles above 190 cm, and 0,001% would be nobles above 2 meters.

If there are 40 millions of human beings in Westeros, of which 10 millions would be adult males (high birth and mortality rate, and high percentage of the population being children),then there would be only 20000 noble men above 180 cm in Westeros, 1400 noble men above 190 cm, and 100 noble men above 2 meters.

[Lee-Sensei]

There are too many people above two meters/6'7". I think anybody above 180 cm/5'11" would be considered a very tall man, and anybody above 190 cm/6'3" would be called a giant.

Only a few freaks of nature like Duncan the Tall, Gregor Clegane, Greatjon and Hodor, the tallest men of their generation, should be above two meters / 6'7".

We have to take into account that, while the nobles had a proteine-rich diet and where closer to modern average heights than their peasant counterparts, the nobles only made a small percentage of the population, so really tall people would be rare.

Let say 1% of all people are nobles, and that those have the same average height as modern people in US, meaning that about 20% of all male nobles would be above 180 cm, but only 1'4% of male nobles would be above 190 cm and only 0'1% would be above two meters.

That means that only 0,2% of all males would be nobles above 180 cm, 0,014% of all males would be nobles above 190 cm, and 0,001% would be nobles above 2 meters.

If there are 30 millions of human beings in Westeros, of which 7,5 millions would be adult males (high mortality rate, and high percentage of the population being children),then there would be only 15000 noble men above 180 cm in Westeros, 1050 noble men above 190 cm, and 75 noble men above 2 meters.

Arianne is called short at 5'2. I don't think the heights are supposrd to be realistic.

[Ser Lepus]

Arianne is called short at 5'2. I don't think the heights are supposrd to be realistic.

Arianne would be short for a noble woman. She wouldn't be considered short if she were a peasant.

[The Holy Goat]

Arianne would be short for a noble woman. She wouldn't be considered short if she were a peasant.

She would probably be considered on the shorter side even if she were a peasant.

The average height for a lowborn man in the real life middle ages was around 5'8" - 5'9" (173-175 cm) I imagine that is not so different from what it is for a lowborn man in Westeros. I imagine women were between 5'3" (160 cm) and 5'5" (165 cm) on average. They were not as short as many believe, and the nobles were probably between 5'10" (178 cm) and 5'11" (180 cm) on average. People over six feet was probably nothing special for the nobles, and even among commoners it was probably a fairly common sight. They were very short during the Napoleonic wars though and the century before and after, only 5'5" (165 cm) for men...

[Lee-Sensei]

Oh. I got so confused there for a moment.

In A Game of Thrones he was shorter than her, yes. But even then Catelyn thinks of him as being almost her height (and Catelyn herself seem to be a fairly statuesque woman). And Robb was often said to be growing taller. By the time of his death in ASOS I personally imagine he was close to 5'10" (178 cm)

As for my guesses:

House Stark

Ned: 5'11" (180 cm)

Robb: 5'10" (178 cm)

Sansa: 5'8" (173 cm)

Arya: 4'11" (150 cm)

Bran: 4'7" (140 cm)

Rickon: 3'8" (112 cm)

Jon: 5'11" (180 cm)

Benjen: 5'11" (180 cm)

House Greyjoy

Balon: 5'11" (180 cm)

Asha: 5'9" (175 cm)

Theon: 5'10" (178 cm)

Euron: 5'11" (180 cm)

Victarion: 6'10" (208 cm)

Aeron: 6'5" (195 cm)

House Lannister

Tywin: 6'2" (188 cm)

Cersei: 5'8" (173 cm)

Jaime: 6'2" (188 cm)

Tyrion: 3'11" (120 cm)

Kevan: 6'1" (185 cm)

Lancel: 6'0" (183 cm)

Genna: 5'10" (178 cm)

Daven: 6'2" (188 cm)

House Tully

Hoster: 6'1" (185 cm)

Catelyn: 5'9" (175 cm)

Lysa: 5'8" (173 cm)

Edmure: 6'1" (185 cm)

Brynden: 6'1" (185 cm)

House Arryn:

Jon: 6'1" (183 cm)

Robert: 3'8" (112 cm)

House Targaryen

Aegon: 6'0" (183 cm)

Viserys: 5'10" (178 cm)

Daenerys: 5'3" (160 cm)

Aemon: 5'5" (165 cm)

House Baratheon

Robert: 6'6" (198 cm)

Joffrey: 5'8" (173 cm)

Myrcella: 4'8" (142 cm)

Tommen: 4'5" (135 cm)

Mya: 5'9" (175 cm)

Edric: 5'0" (152 cm)

Stannis: 6'3" (190 cm)

Shireen: 4'11" (150 cm)

Renly: 6'3" (190 cm)

House Tyrell

Mace: 6'1" (185 cm)

Garlan: 6'2" (188 cm)

Loras: 6'1" (185 cm)

Margaery: 5'8" (173 cm)

Janna: 5'7" (170 cm)

Elinor: 5'9" (175 cm)

Leo: 5'10" (178 cm)

Megga: 5'5" (165 cm)

Alla: 5'3" (160 cm)

House Martell

Doran: 5'7" (170 cm)

Arianne: 5'2" (157 cm)

Quentyn: 5'7" (170 cm)

Trystane: 5'0" (152 cm)

Oberyn: 6'0" (183 cm)

Obara: 5'11" (180 cm)

Nymeria: 5'10" (178 cm)

Tyene: 5'7" (170 cm)

Sarella: 5'10" (178 cm)

Elia: 5'4" (163 cm)

Bonus

House Bolton

Roose: 5'10" (178 cm)

Ramsay: 6'1" (185 cm)

House Baelish

Petyr: 5'6" (168 cm)

Cats probably tall for a woman, but the male average is 5 to 6 inches above the female average. If Cat is 5'8 and Robb is, let's say... an inch shorter than her, he'd be 5'7 at 16. Usually, 16 year olds have another inch to go. Usually. If Robb had lived to be 18, he'd probably be 5'8 or 5'9. On the shorter side of average.

[naseridrl]

Anyone got a read on Tanselle's height? She wasn't too tall for dunk but you can't earn a name like that unless your taller than most

[Annara Snow]

Anyone got a read on Tanselle's height? She wasn't too tall for dunk but you can't earn a name like that unless your taller than most

Well, Dunk was about 7', so no human woman would be likely to be too tall for him.

Oh. I got so confused there for a moment.

In A Game of Thrones he was shorter than her, yes. But even then Catelyn thinks of him as being almost her height (and Catelyn herself seem to be a fairly statuesque woman). And Robb was often said to be growing taller. By the time of his death in ASOS I personally imagine he was close to 5'10" (178 cm)

As for my guesses:

House Stark

Ned: 5'11" (180 cm)

Robb: 5'10" (178 cm)

Sansa: 5'8" (173 cm)

(...)

House Tully

Hoster: 6'1" (185 cm)

Catelyn: 5'9" (175 cm)

Lysa: 5'8" (173 cm)

Edmure: 6'1" (185 cm)

Brynden: 6'1" (185 cm)

House Tyrell

Mace: 6'1" (185 cm)

Garlan: 6'2" (188 cm)

Loras: 6'1" (185 cm)

Margaery: 5'8" (173 cm)

Janna: 5'7" (170 cm)

Elinor: 5'9" (175 cm)

Leo: 5'10" (178 cm)

Megga: 5'5" (165 cm)

Alla: 5'3" (160 cm)

Lysa was shorter than that. In AFFC it was mentioned that Sansa at 13 is taller than Lysa had been at 21, and not just a little taller, but to the point that she Lysa's clothes from her youth did not fit Sansa. Book!Lysa clearly was not as tall as show!Lysa.

Your Tyrells are too tall. I don't remember Margaery being mentioned as tall, either, and I'm pretty sure Loras is not supposed to be tall. Only Garlan is tall. He's described as the "taller bearded version" of his younger brother. Nobody would be saying that if they were just one inch apart.

[The Holy Goat]

Cats probably tall for a woman, but the male average is 5 to 6 inches above the female average. If Cat is 5'8 and Robb is, let's say... an inch shorter than her, he'd be 5'7 at 16. Usually, 16 year olds have another inch to go. Usually. If Robb had lived to be 18, he'd probably be 5'8 or 5'9. On the shorter side of average.

I don't follow. What point are you trying to make?

Lysa was shorter than that. In AFFC it was mentioned that Sansa at 13 is taller than Lysa had been at 21, and not just a little taller, but to the point that she Lysa's clothes from her youth did not fit Sansa. Book!Lysa clearly was not as tall as show!Lysa.

Your Tyrells are too tall. I don't remember Margaery being mentioned as tall, either, and I'm pretty sure Loras is not supposed to be tall. Only Garlan is tall. He's described as the "taller bearded version" of his younger brother. Nobody would be saying that if they were just one inch apart.

Catelyn is confirmed as taller than Lysa, and Lysa is described by Sansa as taller than Littlefinger. Littlefinger was no more than one or two inches shorter than Catelyn, according to Catelyn herself. My guess is that Petyr was about two inches shorter than Cat, and Lysa about one inch shorter than Cat. And Sansa was never refered to as being taller than Lysa as far as I know. She was referred to as beingaalmost as long of leg as a young Lysa and far more slender during her second chapter in AFFC. She will rpobably grow taller though. Probably an inch at least, perhaps two.

What makes you say that regarding the Tyrells? Loras is 18 turning 19 in AFFC/ADWD, and a very capable knight. Jaime claims that he was taller and stronger when the same as a 17 year old Loras, but Jaime is also noted as being quite tall and very strong overall. And why can't Garlan who likely were two or thre inches taller than Loras at the time (Loras was 17 and still growing, Garlan 22 and a grown man) be referred to as a taller and bearded version of his younger brother? I mean, he is a taller and bearded version of his brother...

Margaery and Joffrey was of an height when standing togheter according to Tyrion, and Joffrey was always tall for his age. At 12 he was taller than 14 year olds Robb and Jon. And Mace was described as a man who once had looked handsome and powerful but had then gone fat. I would be surprised if he was an inch over six feet.

Or do you have any evidence to the contrary?

[Lee-Sensei]

I don't follow. What point are you trying to make?

Catelyn is confirmed as taller than Lysa, and Lysa is described by Sansa as taller than Littlefinger. Littlefinger was no more than one or two inches shorter than Catelyn, according to Catelyn herself. My guess is that Petyr was about two inches shorter than Cat, and Lysa about one inch shorter than Cat. And Sansa was never refered to as being taller than Lysa as far as I know. She was referred to as beingaalmost as long of leg as a young Lysa and far more slender during her second chapter in AFFC. She will rpobably grow taller though. Probably an inch at least, perhaps two.

What makes you say that regarding the Tyrells? Loras is 18 turning 19 in AFFC/ADWD, and a very capable knight. Jaime claims that he was taller and stronger when the same as a 17 year old Loras, but Jaime is also noted as being quite tall and very strong overall. And why can't Garlan who likely were two or thre inches taller than Loras at the time (Loras was 17 and still growing, Garlan 22 and a grown man) be referred to as a taller and bearded version of his younger brother? I mean, he is a taller and bearded version of his brother...

Margaery and Joffrey was of an height when standing togheter according to Tyrion, and Joffrey was always tall for his age. At 12 he was taller than 14 year olds Robb and Jon. And Mace was described as a man who once had looked handsome and powerful but had then gone fat. I would be surprised if he was an inch over six feet.

Or do you have any evidence to the contrary?

That Robb wasn't tall. Being almost as tall as his mom doesn't make him tall for a man unless his mom is like, Selyse, Brienne or Dacey.

[Annara Snow]

Catelyn is confirmed as taller than Lysa, and Lysa is described by Sansa as taller than Littlefinger. Littlefinger was no more than one or two inches shorter than Catelyn, according to Catelyn herself. My guess is that Petyr was about two inches shorter than Cat, and Lysa about one inch shorter than Cat. And Sansa was never refered to as being taller than Lysa as far as I know. She was referred to as beingaalmost as long of leg as a young Lysa and far more slender during her second chapter in AFFC. She will rpobably grow taller though. Probably an inch at least, perhaps two.

OK, not taller at that point, but probably taller very soon. Taller people usually have longer legs. That has nothing to do with how much one weighs at the time. It's not specified whether Lysa was fat at 21 or when exactly she had "grown stout".

As for the Cat/Lysa/Petyr height, I very much doubt that they were just one inch apart, for the simple reason that this is such a small difference that nobody even notices it in real life. It tends to also change depending on the shoes one is wearing at the time, and if you look at various celebrity height assessments, they tend to vary by 2 inches - that's how difficult it is to notice a one inch height difference.

What makes you say that regarding the Tyrells? Loras is 18 turning 19 in AFFC/ADWD, and a very capable knight. Jaime claims that he was taller and stronger when the same as a 17 year old Loras, but Jaime is also noted as being quite tall and very strong overall. And why can't Garlan who likely were two or thre inches taller than Loras at the time (Loras was 17 and still growing, Garlan 22 and a grown man) be referred to as a taller and bearded version of his younger brother? I mean, he is a taller and bearded version of his brother...

Margaery and Joffrey was of an height when standing togheter according to Tyrion, and Joffrey was always tall for his age. At 12 he was taller than 14 year olds Robb and Jon. And Mace was described as a man who once had looked handsome and powerful but had then gone fat. I would be surprised if he was an inch over six feet.

Or do you have any evidence to the contrary?

What difference does it make that he's a capable knight? He doesn't have to be really tall to be capable knight. He's not particularly strong, if anything that would be a greater disadvantage. Ser Shadrich is also a knight despite being very short.

You have Jaime at 6'2", if Loras is 6'1" at 18/19, why would Jaime note that he's not so tall as he was? Like I said, one inch is a negligeable difference that no one even notices IRL, if you're 6'1" and 6'2" that practically means you're about the same height.

6'2" is really tall for a man. 5'8" is tall for a woman. Did anyone ever call Loras tall? Or Margaery? You seem to have the rule that you'll assume people are tall by default, which is pretty odd. Surely the logical thing would be to assume everyone is of average height unless stated otherwise?

[The Holy Goat]

That Robb wasn't tall. Being almost as tall as his mom doesn't make him tall for a man unless his mom is like, Selyse, Brienne or Dacey.

I never said he was tall for a man though. It was Catelyn who thought of him as tall when he was almost as tall as her, and several characters noted that he was constantly growing.

OK, not taller at that point, but probably taller very soon. Taller people usually have longer legs. That has nothing to do with how much one weighs at the time. It's not specified whether Lysa was fat at 21 or when exactly she had "grown stout".

As for the Cat/Lysa/Petyr height, I very much doubt that they were just one inch apart, for the simple reason that this is such a small difference that nobody even notices it in real life. It tends to also change depending on the shoes one is wearing at the time, and if you look at various celebrity height assessments, they tend to vary by 2 inches - that's how difficult it is to notice a one inch height difference.

What difference does it make that he's a capable knight? He doesn't have to be really tall to be capable knight. He's not particularly strong, if anything that would be a greater disadvantage. Ser Shadrich is also a knight despite being very short.

You have Jaime at 6'2", if Loras is 6'1" at 18/19, why would Jaime note that he's not so tall as he was? Like I said, one inch is a negligeable difference that no one even notices IRL, if you're 6'1" and 6'2" that practically means you're about the same height.

6'2" is really tall for a man. 5'8" is tall for a woman. Did anyone ever call Loras tall? Or Margaery? You seem to have the rule that you'll assume people are tall by default, which is pretty odd. Surely the logical thing would be to assume everyone is of average height unless stated otherwise?

Catelyn met Lysa when she was in her late twenties (Cat had met little Robert before AGOT), and Lysa was apparently not nearly as fat and feeble then. I think we can assume a 21 year old Lysa was quite slender and beautiful still.

If you don't think people can be keenly aware of small differences in height, then you know nothing of people. Everyone notices different things when looking at people. I for one have a very easy time noticing differences in height, in broadness of hips and shoulders, thickness of arms, etc. I notice overall shape, essentially. I do not notice colouring, or small details in someones face, or haircuts, or little accesories. SUch things do not interest me, so I put not focus on them.

Quote from Catelyn IV AGOT:

Petyr had been small as a boy, and he had grown into a small man, an inch or two shorter than Catelyn, slender and quick, with the shapr features she remembered and the same laughing grey-green eyes.

Quote from Catelyn VI AGOT:

It had been five years, in truth; five cruel years, for Lysa. They had taken their toll. Her sister was two years the younger, yet she looked older now. Shorter than Catelyn, Lysa had grown thick of body, pale and puffy of face.

Quote from Sansa VII ASOS, regarding Lysa:

She was taller than Littlefinger, and heavier; nor did she show any grace in the clumsy way she climbed down off her horse.

Regarding Loras: You do not become one of the best knights on the continent without having some strenght, nor are you capable of flawlessly knocking the likes of Gregor Clegane of his horse without breaking a sweat. And note how Jaime was talking to a seventeen year old Loras, while I gave Loras the height I believe he has at the end of ADWD, almost a year later. Young men grow quickly at those ages, so even if Loras was three or four inches or so shorter in ASOS there's no guarantee he will be the same height at the end of ADWD. I you want I can lower Loras height an inch or even two. I do not consider him short though.

6'2" is really tall? 5'8" is really tall? What diminutive country do you live in, if you believe this? In most european countries, the average height for men is 5'11" or 6'0", and that's despire the large influx of immigrants from locales where the average height is less (East Asia, South East Asia, South Asia, Central Asia, Sub-Saharan Africa). For women it's 5'6" or 5'7". The average of nobles in Westeros is likely quite similar.

BTW Margaery was the same height as Joffrey, who was quite tall for his age (almost 14). I could lower her to 6'7", but not more.

[Real Jaime]

6'2" is really tall? 5'8" is really tall? What diminutive country do you live in, if you believe this? In most european countries, the average height for men is 5'11" or 6'0", and that's despire the large influx of immigrants from locales where the average height is less (East Asia, South East Asia, South Asia, Central Asia, Sub-Saharan Africa). For women it's 5'6" or 5'7". The average of nobles in Westeros is likely quite similar.

6`2 is quite tall.Average height of European men is more like 5´10, (5`11 for Scandinavian, Central Europe and Balcanic countries, 5`9-5`10 for the others). The only country which averages 6 feet is the Netherlands.

So probably a medium height noblemen in Westeros is 5`10.

[The Holy Goat]

6`2 is quite tall.Average height of European men is more like 5´10, (5`11 for Scandinavian, Central Europe and Balcanic countries, 5`9-5`10 for the others). The only country which averages 6 feet is the Netherlands.

So probably a medium height noblemen in Westeros is 5`10.

I suppose we simply have different views of what tall and really tall mean then. I'm just about average for a Swede (5'10"), yet I would never consider a man who is 6'2" "really tall". Now 6'6", that is really tall (though once agin, not that very uncommon to see).

[Eden-Mackenzie]

I suppose we simply have different views of what tall and really tall mean then. I'm just about average for a Swede (5'10"), yet I would never consider a man who is 6'2" "really tall". Now 6'6", that is really tall (though once agin, not that very uncommon to see).

This, definitely: "tall" and "really tall" are completely subjective. I'm 5'2" so to me, almost everyone is tall (and I'm a horrible judge of height in other people), but the only person who I know that I consider "really tall" is the 6'11" ex-husband of a friend. Men who are 6'2"-6'5" are tall (compared to the average, not to me), but I save really tall for the outliers.

To make things more complicated, I used to be tall - I've been about the same height since 4th or 5th grade, and 5'2" on an eleven year old girl is "tall."

[Annara Snow]

I never said he was tall for a man though. It was Catelyn who thought of him as tall when he was almost as tall as her, and several characters noted that he was constantly growing.

Catelyn met Lysa when she was in her late twenties (Cat had met little Robert before AGOT), and Lysa was apparently not nearly as fat and feeble then. I think we can assume a 21 year old Lysa was quite slender and beautiful still.

If you don't think people can be keenly aware of small differences in height, then you know nothing of people. Everyone notices different things when looking at people. I for one have a very easy time noticing differences in height, in broadness of hips and shoulders, thickness of arms, etc. I notice overall shape, essentially. I do not notice colouring, or small details in someones face, or haircuts, or little accesories. SUch things do not interest me, so I put not focus on them.

Nobody is keenly aware of of a difference of an inch. It feels like you're the same height when you're standing next to someone and talking, you don't normally look at the mirror to check the hairlines and see who's taller, unless you're really trying to ascertain who's taller in the first place. And it changes depending on the shoes you're wearing that day.

Regarding Loras: You do not become one of the best knights on the continent without having some strenght, nor are you capable of flawlessly knocking the likes of Gregor Clegane of his horse without breaking a sweat. And note how Jaime was talking to a seventeen year old Loras, while I gave Loras the height I believe he has at the end of ADWD, almost a year later. Young men grow quickly at those ages, so even if Loras was three or four inches or so shorter in ASOS there's no guarantee he will be the same height at the end of ADWD. I you want I can lower Loras height an inch or even two. I do not consider him short though.

Young men and young men's growing slows down when they reach sexual maturity. Loras is not in the early stages of adolescence and if he's growing, he's going to grow only minimally.

He unhorsed Gregor because Gregor's stallion was horny.

6'2" is really tall? 5'8" is really tall? What diminutive country do you live in, if you believe this? In most european countries, the average height for men is 5'11" or 6'0", and that's despire the large influx of immigrants from locales where the average height is less (East Asia, South East Asia, South Asia, Central Asia, Sub-Saharan Africa). For women it's 5'6" or 5'7". The average of nobles in Westeros is likely quite similar.

:rofl:

Do you live on another planet perhaps? An alternate Earth with an alternate Europe? Because, if you live on Earth... nope, the average height in definitely not 5'11" or 6'0" for men nor 5'6" or 5'7" for women "in most European countries".

As a matter of fact, I happen to live in a "diminutive European country" that's listed on Wikipedia as the 3rd tallest country in the entire world by male height, and the average male height is listed as 182 cm (5 feet 11 1/2 inches). Average female height is 166.8 cm (5 ft 5 1/2 inches). And I can tell you that, when I see a 6'2" guy, I still think he's really tall.

The only two countries with the average male height listed as 6' or approximate, are Netherlands and Montenegro. Those are also the only two countries in the entire world with the average female height of 5'7" and 5'6 1/2", respectively.

Every other country is below that, more or less. And it's only in Netherlands, the Nordic countries and the Dinaric Alps region you'll find average heights around 5'11" for men and 5'6" for women.

And those measures are all recent - younger generations are getting taller. Just couple of decades ago, people were much shorter.

Even today, these are the average heights listed for some of the other European and non-European countries:

Austria - 179.2 cm (5' 10 1/2"). 167.6 cm (5'6")

Belgium - 178.6 cm (5' 10 1⁄2"), 168.1 cm (5'6")

Spain - 178 cm (5'10"), 166.2 cm (5'5")

USA - 177.6 cm (a bit shorter than 5'10"), 163.2 cm (5' 4 1⁄2")

Australia - 177.8 cm (5' 10"), 163.8 cm (5' 4 1⁄2") - measured in 2011/2012

France - 177 cm (5' 9 1⁄2"), 164.6 cm (5' 5") - measured in 2001

Ireland - 177 cm (5' 9 1⁄2"), 163 cm (5' 4") - measured in 2007

UK (England) - 175.3 cm (5' 9"), 161.9 cm (5' 3 1⁄2")

Hungary - 176 cm (5'9 1⁄2"), 164 cm (5' 4 1⁄2")

Russia - 176 cm (5' 9 1⁄2"), 164 cm (5' 4 1⁄2")

Italy - 177.2 cm (5'10"), 167.8 cm (5'6") - self-reported in 2001; or 174.5 cm (5' 8 1⁄2"), 162 cm (5' 4") - measured in 2005, but only on people aged 18-40

Canada - 175.1 cm (5' 9"), 162.3 cm (5' 4") for people aged 18-79

Greece - 177.29 cm (5' 10") - a 2010 estimate for men

Bulgaria - 175.2 cm (5'9"), 163.2 cm (5' 4 1⁄2")

Romania - 172 cm (5' 7 1⁄2"), 157 cm (5' 2") - measured in 2007

Portugal - 171 cm (5' 7 1⁄2"), 161 cm (5' 3 1⁄2") - self-reported in 2001, for people aged 20-50; av. male height estimated at 172.30 cm (5' 8") in 2010

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Average_height_around_the_world

[Annara Snow]

This, definitely: "tall" and "really tall" are completely subjective. I'm 5'2" so to me, almost everyone is tall (and I'm a horrible judge of height in other people), but the only person who I know that I consider "really tall" is the 6'11" ex-husband of a friend. Men who are 6'2"-6'5" are tall (compared to the average, not to me), but I save really tall for the outliers.

To make things more complicated, I used to be tall - I've been about the same height since 4th or 5th grade, and 5'2" on an eleven year old girl is "tall."

That's not just "really tall" or even "very tall", that's "super-tall". That's "NBA center tall".

[Ser Brandon Badwater]

Think i remember reading somewhere that dunk had been measured a half inch shorter than 7 foot

[Eden-Mackenzie]

That's not just "really tall" or even "very tall", that's "super-tall". That's "NBA center tall".

If only he had "NBA center tall" abilities and skills...

But I was just trying to illustrate (in response to a disagreement over tall vs really tall) that "really", "very", and "super" are hard to standardize, because their definitions change from person to person. To me, almost everyone is tall, so I save really tall for the people that are without a doubt really tall. :)