The Wiseman´s Fear VI (Spoilers and discussion)

[Lucky_Matrim]

Hey guys, this is my first post here. amazing stuff you guys have got to here by the way!

1. there's a connection i noticed that i don't know if anyone here has picked up on.

Vashet repeatedly says that she's worked for a king, one she describes as a Poet King

Kvothe's sword Caesura, is referred to as the Poet killer by Aaron.

Kvothe is called the King killer?

of course i dont know who the poet king is, but i just thought that this made sense.

2. the folding house that Jax unfolds and uses to trap the moon is a comparison to Iax creating the Fae and taking the moon.(i've seen that thrown around here a lot :D )

now felurian says that on moonless nights or the full moon, mortals/Faen creatures can cross over to the other side, and the pull is stronger.

the chandrian's purpose is to free Iax, who is trapped behind the doors of stone.

my guess is that Iax wants to break the barrier between the Fae and the mortal world, allowing creatures to cross over at will, not restricted by the phases of the moon.

this explains an outbreak of Faen creatures, the scrael et al, and a war between mortals and the Fae.

the lackless box could be the one holding the moon's name? or could the box be more figurative than definite in the story?

[Ran]

Just a quick note: Patrick will be hanging out at this thread in about 3 hours (4 PM Eastern), so please feel free to think up some good questions (that aren't spoilery, per Patrick's request!)

[jurble]

I don't know much about it. I don't spend a lot of time trolling around, looking for online discussions of my work.

I knew some people weren't going to like it, because fantasy readers are mental about having sex in their books. I swear, it's like they're 12 year old boys who still think girls are icky. And kissing them is extra icky.

It stems from the Tolkien tradition, of course. Pretty much no women. No sex. Just a bunch of guys questing and slapping each other on the back. With VERY rare exception, nobody ever talks about a girl (or guy) they might have left at home. Nobody is in love. For all you know, Gandalf is smooth as a ken doll under those robes.

It worked pretty well with Tolkien, because he was following along in this ancient tradition of the Saga. But I'm telling a different sort of story, it's the story of a young man's life. How can I tell the true story of a seventeen year old boy and not have mention of sex in it? Am I supposed to pretend he's been neutered?

Meh. So yeah. As a writer, you get used to the fact that some people are going to hate what you write. You can't live in fear of that. If you do, you'll never get anything done.

Bah, that's not why I dislike the Felurian chapters! Nor the reason most people who dislike them, dislike them, I think.

I didn't like the Fae chapters because it lasted too damn long. Cut it in half and it would've been fine.

[thistlepong]

Hi, Lucky, thanks for joining the discussion.

Hey guys, this is my first post here. amazing stuff you guys have got to here by the way!

1. there's a connection i noticed that i don't know if anyone here has picked up on.

Vashet repeatedly says that she's worked for a king, one she describes as a Poet King

Kvothe's sword Caesura, is referred to as the Poet killer by Aaron.

Kvothe is called the King killer?

of course i dont know who the poet king is, but i just thought that this made sense.

The, sort of, problem I have with this obvious choice is that it seems to have little impact. Vashet's poet king ruled a portion of the Small Kingdoms, a region nearly as lawless and dangerous as southern Atur. Killing him might be above the station of one of the Edema Ruh, sure; offensive and noteworthy but not necessarily the defining moment of a career. On the other hand, for similar reasons it could easily be the seed event for a story that gained momentum as it spread. Ultimately, it's not the easy answer that a Vintic monarch would appear to be: providing a reason for war and a reason for all the action and mystery in Vintas.

2. the folding house that Jax unfolds and uses to trap the moon is a comparison to Iax creating the Fae and taking the moon.(i've seen that thrown around here a lot :D )

now felurian says that on moonless nights or the full moon, mortals/Faen creatures can cross over to the other side, and the pull is stronger.

the chandrian's purpose is to free Iax, who is trapped behind the doors of stone.

my guess is that Iax wants to break the barrier between the Fae and the mortal world, allowing creatures to cross over at will, not restricted by the phases of the moon.

this explains an outbreak of Faen creatures, the scrael et al, and a war between mortals and the Fae.

the lackless box could be the one holding the moon's name? or could the box be more figurative than definite in the story?

The Chandrian have not appeared to take any actions toward the purpose of freeing Iax. The assumption we make based on Kvothe's education and interpretation is that the seek to eliminate information about themselves. The closest we get to purpose is the destruction and or elimination of civilization. Lanre spends his entire life defending the cities of Ergen in the Creation War. Then, at the end, when the residents of the remaining eight can finally speak again of peace, he pulls a face hell turn, recruits the Chandrian, and attempts to wipe out the remnants of the empire. The "demons" in The Book of the Path mainly serve to disrupt harmonious cohabitation. encanis himeself poisons wells, kills crops, and turns men against one another. The folktales that survive of the Chandrian are faerie stories wherin the cause minor mischief. Finally, other folks have pointed out that the Fae don't have much trouble making the journey. Why would they want humans to have easy access?

So far as we've seen, there's no evidence of an unusual number of Faen. There's Bast, five(?) scrael - with the implication of more - and a deficient skin dancer. The Loeclos Box shouldn't hold the name of the moon, since it continues to travel between the Four Corners and Faen (i.e. the bit of her name should be in Faen.)

[thistlepong]

Word-of-God notes from the Q&A

The Kingkiller Chronicle trilogy ends with The Doors of Stone. "A good story needs an ending."

Whether another trilogy with these characters follows constitutes a spoiler.

Pat has plans to write more books in this setting.

Pat explains absense of technologies we might expect, like the steam engine, by analogy. The ancient Greeks had the technology, but didn't use it.

"The folklore of The Four Corners is based mostly off the cosmology of the Four Corners. Not on our world."

Severen is north of Renere, south of Tinue.

The four corners are: Tarbean, Renere, Ralien, and Cershaen.

[thistlepong]

Might as well triple post...

Here are some more thoughts I had:

1. Anyone else notice that the poems Sim made for Fela that got her to finally notice him were full of seven-word lines? They can be found in WMFc28 and WMFc33.

2. How does Kvothe create the wave that knocks Denna over in WMFc148? I didn’t think he had a power source strong enough to do it with sympathy. Was it naming? If so, why didn’t he tell Elodin about it when he told him he called the wind again?

3. In NotWc88, Kvothe says, "Underneath the University, I found what I had wanted most, yet it was not what I expected. As is often the case when you gain your heart’s desire." Could he be talking about what he tricked a demon to get and fought an angel to keep?

4. In WMFc9, Fall of Empire is attributed to Feltemi Reis. In WMFc39, The Fall of Empire is attributed to Greggor the Lesser. Either Fall of Empire and The Fall of Empire are two different books, this is an editing mistake, or the book fell victim to people changing what the history books say. I think it’s probably an editing mistake.

5. Twice in NotW, Denna references Kvothe's first seven words to her, but both times she misquotes them. Kvothe said, "I was wondering what you're doing here." She quotes him as saying, "I was just wondering why you're here." I'm guessing this is an editing mistake.

6. It seems like everyone considers Skarpi's story to be 100% true. But after the first day of the story, Skarpi tells Kvothe that you "have to be a bit of a liar to tell a story the right way. Too much truth confuses the facts. Too much honesty makes you sound insincere." Also, when Chronicler mentions Skarpi, Kvothe calls him a rumormonger. To me this suggests that something happens in the third book to lower Kvothe's opinion of Skarpi and/or his stories.

7. In Kvothe's story about Sceop, Terris' name may come from terra for earth and Silla's name may come from an Inuit deity of the sky, wind, and weather.

8. Taborlin's name may be related to the Tabor Light.

9. "Tehlu's tits and teeth" is an expression used in WMF. All the other religious expressions have an understandable origin, but I don’t know where this one comes from.

10. Except for a white shift in chapter 148, blue is the only color Denna is mentioned as wearing once she finishes her Lanre song. Maybe blue (or blue and white) are important to her patron.

----------------

Edited to add the following

----------------

The following is mostly speculation. At most there is little evidence to support any of this. I don't believe everything that follows. As such, I will not try hard (if at all) to defend these ideas.

11. I think Wil and Sim are both dead. It doesn't seem right that they'd be alive. Also, in WMFc36, Kvothe goes out drinking with them and says that because he wasn't drinking sounten and actually got drunk, much of the evening is lost to living memory. The most simple and probable explanation for it being lost to living memory is that they were all drunk (which they were). But he really can’t be sure that it's lost to living memory unless they're dead.

12. I know many people are fixated with Auri and being like the moon or saying she is the moon. But instead, she may be like the nightjars from the story of Jax. Nightjars are closely related to owls. Bredon is often said to resemble an owl. Maybe Auri is related to Bredon. Maybe she is his daughter. Maybe he is Amyr (someone earlier guessed that he could be the stick by the Maer that leads Kvothe to their door). Maybe that's how she knows about them. Also, in NotWc87 she talks about how owls are careful, patient, and not bold. While Bredon says the point of tak is to be bold, and I get the feeling that's also an ideal he lives by.

13. Many people think Auri is Princess Ariel. Maybe instead she is Tabetha, the girl who claimed that Ambrose promised to marry her and then disappeared. Maybe Ambrose hired someone to attack her, which caused her mind to crack. In WMFc24 she instantly understood that Kvothe wanted to avoid dowsing and knew how to do it, like she was experienced at it and still did it. Perhaps she's still hiding from Ambrose's thug.

14. During Kvothe's first admissions exam Lorren said he was going to go to Tarbean. This would have been just about the earliest word could have reached him that Skarpi was arrested for heresy. Maybe Lorren was Skarpi's friend in the church who could get him out. The church is powerful and it makes sense that they'd want someone in a position to censor information at the University's Archives.

15. Lorren doesn't show emotion. Maybe he is from Ademre.

16. The Cthaeh said that Denna's patron beat her with a walking stick for the first time recently. If Cinder is her patron, he might have had a walking stick on hand because he actually needed one after Marten shot him in the leg. The wording is such that just having the walking stick could have been new.

17. Iax spoke to the Cthaeh before stealing the moon. It seems that the moon was stolen not long after the Faen realm was created. It seems likely to me that the Cthaeh existed before the Faen realm did (Felurian did). If that's true then even though it may be stuck in its tree now, that wouldn't always have been the case.

18. Bast says that the Cthaeh perfectly sees every future. But how can anybody other than the Cthaeh know if this is true? If it was true, couldn't the Cthaeh have manipulated events so nobody knew it was evil? Bast also says that the Cthaeh is malicious. But if it had to choose between causing evil to the world or evil to the one who visited it, which would it choose? Could things turn out bad for the world but good for Kvothe (or the other way around)? Also, how can anyone other than the Cthaeh truly know what its intentions are? We can observe what happens after talking to the Cthaeh, but we cannot observe what didn't happen. Perhaps its agenda isn't to cause pain, but it doesn't care who gets hurt. Or perhaps its agenda is the greater good, but much evil must be done first (though I would be INCREDIBLY surprised if it turned out to be Amyr).

19. Maybe Geoffrey and Denna are brother and sister. Their relationship is clearly different from the ones Denna has with other men. Also, they both have wide, dark eyes and dark hair.

20. Kvothe's ring without name could be for the moon since its name was locked away.

21. Kvothe's ring of ice with a flaw within could actually be a ring of glass with an air bubble inside it. I don’t really have a reason for thinking this except that the Kvothe stories are often full of errors. I can see ice being important if he ends up fighting Cinder. But glass (especially mirror-glass) also seems important.

22. Taborlin was an enemy of the Chandrian and was also really powerful. But it doesn't seem like he succeeded in killing any of them (unless he took the place of one that he killed).

23. Maybe the items from the Lackless rhymes were split up among the various Lockless families.

24. Sceop had white hair and a walking stick, just like Denna's patron. Maybe he is her patron. I doubt this though, unless Kvothe never found out who her patron was, because I think Sceop = Skarpi and I would think Kvothe's reaction to Chronicler mentioning Skarpi would be more negative if he were Denna's patron.

25. I want Crazy Martin (from Newarre) to turn out to be someone important from Kvothe's past. His name is similar to Marten's (who sort of lost it when Kvothe started killing bandits).

26. For the people that think Denna is a Chandrian. In WMFc140, Kvothe says that a city feels different with Denna inside it. Maybe that's her sign manifesting itself.

27. The Chandrian have signs. Maybe Angels and/or Amyr also have signs. If they do it seems very possible that they'd be mistaken for Chandrian signs since they show up in places the Chandrian have just been.

28. Stercus is in thrall of iron. As has already been said, Ferule's name is like a combination of the runes for iron and binding. Maybe Stercus is Ferule's thrall.

1. Anyone else notice that the poems Sim made for Fela that got her to finally notice him were full of seven-word lines?
   
   No. Good catch. Pat even hangs a lampshade on the first poem when he mentions Fela's first faint feelings of love.

   
   

2. How does Kvothe create the wave that knocks Denna over in WMFc148?
   
   It was sympathy. He talks through the amount of heat water can hold when he plans his escape from the Adem. Water in motion would also hold kinetic energy. Imagine me pushing my glasses up my nose; I certainly feel Frinkish saying that.

   
   

3. Could he be talking about what he tricked a demon to get and fought an angel to keep?
   
   I think so. Others are less satisfied with the theory. It’s also up in the air who the angel and demon are in that interpretation or whether both the tricking and the fighting have already occurred.

   
   

4. Either Fall of Empire and The Fall of Empire are two different books, this is an editing mistake…
   
   It could be an error with little impact on the story. Reis’s version is one Lorren set aside for Re’lar to study, which could be fuel for Amyr conspiracy buffs. Reis is the lesser historian. It’s possible he wrote his own version “correcting” Greggor’s. Nonetheless, good catch.

   
   

5. Twice in NotW, Denna references Kvothe's first seven words to her, but both times she misquotes them.
   
   Newer editions of NotW have corrected mistakes – notably the triangle math error. I’d be curious to see what the other differences are. Another good catch.

   
   

6. It seems like everyone considers Skarpi's story to be 100% true.
   
   Not everyone. Interrogating Skarpi’s stories is central to the task of teasing out the mysteries of the past. Even taken as true, the stories are weird. Kvothe certainly becomes aware that the story may be more complex…

   
   

7. In Kvothe's story about Sceop, Terris' name may come from terra
   
   Another interesting note is that many of the names aren’t important enough to keep in translation. The author has said that he didn’t cull names from specific languages and is often surprised to learn what the mean. I suspect the names that stay the same have more import than those that don’t.

   
   

8. Taborlin's name may be related to the Tabor Light.
   
   Interesting.

   
   

9. "Tehlu's tits and teeth" is an expression used in WMF.
   
   It’s used by Kvothe under the influence of the plum bob. A blasphemy uttered without restraint. And it’s used by Devi, apostate to everything. And, it links them. I just though it was similar to my grandfather cursing things “as useless as tits on a boar.”

   
   

10. Except for a white shift in chapter 148, blue is the only color Denna is mentioned as wearing once she finishes her Lanre song. Maybe blue (or blue and white) are important to her patron.
    
    Which suggests a relationship with Alveron…

    
    

11. I think Wil and Sim are both dead.
    
    Agreed.

    
    

12. Nightjars are closely related to owls.
    
    Not closely

    
    

13. Maybe instead she is Tabetha, the girl who claimed that Ambrose promised to marry her and then disappeared.
    
    It’s an interesting thought. She could have valid reasons for hiding no matter who she is.

    
    

14. Maybe Lorren was Skarpi's friend in the church who could get him out.
    
    I lol’d. But it seems unlikely that the modern Tehlin church admits arcanists.

    
    

15. Lorren doesn't show emotion. Maybe he is from Ademre.
    
    He’s remarkably tall in the southern Commonwealth. He’d be a giant to the Adem. On the other hand, he could have experience with them. Elodin does.

    
    

16. The wording is such that just having the walking stick could have been new.
    
    And yet Bredon and the Maer already have visible noted walking sticks…

    
    

17. If that's true then even though it may be stuck in its tree now, that wouldn't always have been the case.
    
    The Cthaeh certainly existed prior to the stealing of the moon, but may not have existed before Faen. Nor do we know if it began existence in the tree. You bring up a good point.

    
    

18. I would be INCREDIBLY surprised if it turned out to be Amyr
    
    That still makes me smile. Omniscience always raises these kinds of questions. Either we take Bast at his word, which has enough metatextual implications by itself (i.e. that Kvothe’s story is the worst kind of tragedy.) Or we debate the possible motivations of an unfathomable creature.

    
    

19. Maybe Geoffrey and Denna are brother and sister.
    
    Huh.

    
    

20. Kvothe's ring without name could be for the moon since its name was locked away.
    
    That would theoretically demonstrate mastery over the moon, which remain unchanged from it’s post-Iax state in the frame. Though that would be a good reason to hide…

    
    

21. Kvothe's ring of ice with a flaw within could actually be a ring of glass with an air bubble inside it.
    
    Good idea about mirror glass. Ice with a flaw evoked diamond for me.

    
    

22. Taborlin was an enemy of the Chandrian and was also really powerful. But it doesn't seem like he succeeded in killing any of them.
    
    I doubt he hid. I doubt he’s one of them. Taborlin’s super cool, but the Chandrian are
    old
    .

    
    

23. Maybe the items from the Lackless rhymes were split up among the various Lockless families.
    
    It’s an interesting idea, but some of things seem intangible and many branches have fallen into obscurity.

    
    

24. want Crazy Martin (from Newarre) to turn out to be someone important from Kvothe's past.
    
    In one of his blogs, Pat notes that the names of the folks from Newarre are generally unimportant.

    
    

25. For the people that think Denna is a Chandrian. In WMFc140, Kvothe says that a city feels different with Denna inside it. Maybe that's her sign manifesting itself.
    
    What sign would it correspond to?

    
    

26. The Chandrian have signs. Maybe Angels and/or Amyr also have signs. If they do it seems very possible that they'd be mistaken for Chandrian signs since they show up in places the Chandrian have just been.
    
    If you’re going that far, maybe the Chandrian don’t have signs at all. But according to Kvothe’s firsthand account, most of the signs mentioned by Shehyn are present before Tehlu & Pals show up.

    
    

27. Stercus is in thrall of iron. As has already been said, Ferule's name is like a combination of the runes for iron and binding. Maybe Stercus is Ferule's thrall.
    
    It’s not much of a sign, particularly not much of a sign to last in verse for 5000 years.

    
    

[Selmy]

I've been a fan of Rothfuss for awhile and have enjoyed his two books quite a bit.

I think Kvothe is a bit of a Mary Sue, but the books are entertaining so I'm willing to forgive that as a reader.

Here's my issue...I don't really like Rothfuss. I've been reading, listening to, and watching more of his interviews lately, and I just don't really like the guy. For a relatively young and new author he just seems a bit full of himself, in contrast to someone like GRRM who I think has a bit of an ego about his work, but also a great deal of humility and joviality.

I know I should read the books and just accept them for what they are alone, but it's been becoming a bit more difficult.

I suppose it does raise sort of an interesting question about how important an author as a person is to how their books are received.

[reiver]

Yeah, i get that. I read a lot but i don't read about books a lot (except for asoiaf theories) so i rarely see author interviews etc. and, for the most part, those i've seen have certainly not improved my enjoyment of the books. Knowing too much of the author and their politics and beliefs can make you read books in a different manner and start to question motivations and agendas behind characters or situations. I know that i look back at Ender's Game less fondly now that i know OSC's politics and I think knowing Brandon Sanderson's religious beliefs caused elements of the Mistborn books (well the last one) to rankle more than they would have otherwise.

Pat did not come across at all well in the Q&A imo and combined with the blog post from GRRM, that was reposted in another thread, about his dismissal of negative reactions to ADWD as "trolls" (despite me actually liking ADWD btw) i've decided i should start actively avoiding authors for fear that my dislike of them affects my reading.

[jumbles]

12. Nightjars are closely related to owls.

Not closely

That wiki page (specifically the systematics section) is actually what made me think they are closely related. Also the owl wiki made me think they are closely related.

From the Nightjar wiki: "some authorities have adopted ... the more far-reaching" recommendation "to group all the owls (traditionally Strigiformes) together in the Caprimulgiformes" (Caprimulgiformes being what nightjars are).

From the Owl wiki: "For example, the Sibley-Ahlquist taxonomy finds that, based on DNA-DNA hybridization, owls are more closely related to the nightjars and their allies (Caprimulgiformes) than to the diurnal predators in the order Falconiformes; consequently, the Caprimulgiformes are placed in the Strigiformes, and the owls in general become a family Strigidae."

25. For the people that think Denna is a Chandrian. In WMFc140, Kvothe says that a city feels different with Denna inside it. Maybe that's her sign manifesting itself.

What sign would it correspond to?

I don't know. But I'm not one of the people that thinks Denna has been a Chandrian this whole time.

[kuenjato]

Bah, that's not why I dislike the Felurian chapters! Nor the reason most people who dislike them, dislike them, I think.

I didn't like the Fae chapters because it lasted too damn long. Cut it in half and it would've been fine.

His defense was so lame. I know he hasn't read much in the way of modern fantasy, but come on. We don't dislike the Felurian chapters because we're prudes. We dislike them because they come off as a 15 year old with his first bag of dope and penthouse magazine complete with tissue box and twenty sided dice. Frankly embaressing, a low point in a book that seemed to be going nowhere slowly, compounded in turn by the stupid freelove ninjas.

I actually admire how Rothfuss has translated his fame into charity work--he deserves a round of applause from that. But his ubergeek persona leaves me cold. And someone needs to tell him that there are plenty of published books that have higher word counts that WMF.

[two_by_two]

I just thought of this a few days ago, and I'm reasonably sure it hasn't been brought up before.

We are privileged to hear at least a possible version of how Haliax came to be. He found power where it should never be sought, he was cursed by Selitos after betraying civilization. However, where do the other six Chandrian come from? More importantly, where do their signs come from? It took a massive and horrible transformation to change Lanre into Haliax (at least according to Skarpi), resulting in his immortality, sanity, perfect memory (probably), sleeplessness, and aura of shadow (incidentally similar to Kvothe's cloak of shadow). How did the other six become immortal (probably) and develop these powers to corrode wood and metal, kill plants, drive animals mad, make flames burn blue, etc?

[thistlepong]

I just thought of this a few days ago, and I'm reasonably sure it hasn't been brought up before.

We are privileged to hear at least a possible version of how Haliax came to be. He found power where it should never be sought, he was cursed by Selitos after betraying civilization. However, where do the other six Chandrian come from? More importantly, where do their signs come from? It took a massive and horrible transformation to change Lanre into Haliax (at least according to Skarpi), resulting in his immortality, sanity, perfect memory (probably), sleeplessness, and aura of shadow (incidentally similar to Kvothe's cloak of shadow). How did the other six become immortal (probably) and develop these powers to corrode wood and metal, kill plants, drive animals mad, make flames burn blue, etc?

It's a good question.

One clue might lie in Selitos's curse:

"This is my doom upon you. Your own name will be turned against you, that you shall have no peace.

"This is my doom upon you and all who follow you. May it last until the world ends and the Aleu fall nameless from the sky."

It may or may not extend to identifying environmental effects for them, but it certainly extends in some way to his followers.

The rhinna (the flowers of the Cthaeh's tree) are the panacea, defined by Bast as a cure-all but also traditionally associated with eternal life. The oldest charge of the Sithe is to prevent any contact with the Cthaeh and they are noted by Haliax as one of the primary antagonists of The Seven. When Kvothe encounters the Cthaeh he's reminded of his Chandrian research; the folklore mentions an oracle they visited that he connects to the Cthaeh.

That The Seven probably ate (eat?) the rhinna for immortality is supported by the /(shamble man)/'s "Te Rhintae," and the Adem word for them: rhinta.

No one but my wife and I take this seriously, but many of those signs - cold, pooling shadow, corroding metal - occur in the presence of bone tar. A little, ahem, firedamp and some naptha and you've pretty much rounded out the signs of the Chandrian. It's at least possible to make it look like they've been there. It's also possible they just like some old standbys to get their job done.

[crispy]

His defense was so lame. I know he hasn't read much in the way of modern fantasy, but come on. We don't dislike the Felurian chapters because we're prudes. We dislike them because they come off as a 15 year old with his first bag of dope and penthouse magazine complete with tissue box and twenty sided dice. Frankly embaressing, a low point in a book that seemed to be going nowhere slowly, compounded in turn by the stupid freelove ninjas.

I actually admire how Rothfuss has translated his fame into charity work--he deserves a round of applause from that. But his ubergeek persona leaves me cold. And someone needs to tell him that there are plenty of published books that have higher word counts that WMF.

You know what's most ridiculous about his answer? That he was trying to peddle that nonsense on aSoIaF forum! I mean, honestly, I doubt too many GRRM fans are turned off by sex in fantasy stories.

Wiseman's Fear disappointed because it was boring, not because it had sex. Any author who thinks 3 tedious chapters about a character learning some ridiculous form of emotional sign language really doesn't know what entertains readers.

[jumbles]

Lots of people notice the similarities between Auri and the moon. But not so many do for Denna and the moon. Several people including Merihathor, two_by_two (6th paragraph), and Re'lar Loki have spent time on the topic. Now I'll add my own thoughts. Some of these things may already have been said, but I figure it doesn't hurt to have it all in one spot.

1. In NotWc33, Denna's skin is more luminous than the moon. In WMFc70 her skin is brighter than the moon.

2. She has a cool moonlight voice in NotWc54.

3. Both she and the moon have dark eyes.

4. Felurian describes the moon as shining like a flower unfurled. In NotWc58 Denna smiled like a flower unfurling, and Kvothe described Denna as a flower unfolding in NotWc65. Only two other instances of a flower unfurling or unfolding are in the books. In NotWc16 the shadow around Haliax bloomed like a flower unfolding. In WMFc143, the realization that Devi was in the business for favors came to Kvothe like a flower unfurling.

5. Denna is described as lovely as the moon in NotWc72.

6. In NotWc33 she told stories about the stars and constellations that Kvothe had never heard.

7. In NotWc58 she refuses to give Kvothe her name at first because then she would be in his power. This is what happened to the moon.

8. The moon is ever-changing. Denna's name is ever-changing. Also, for all we know she doesn't have a name, while the moon's name was stolen.

9. Kvothe always looks for Denna but can't find her. Jax chased the moon but couldn't catch her.

10. Denna likes being free, doesn't like being kept, and feels a need to keep moving. All things that can be said of the moon.

11. The moon was Jax's heart’s desire. Denna might be Kvothe's.

12. In WMFc69 Denna reappeared the day of a night with no moon.

13. In WMFc70 she claims it's easier to speak and be yourself on moonless nights.

[henderson]

Read the first 200 pages, and I found the story to be too boring. Thought Name of the Wind was alright, nothing special, but WISEMAN'S FEAR is just boring. Didn't really connect with Kvothe. The other characters are two dimensional. Don't really see why Patrick needed four years to produce this book, especially since he completed the trilogy before Name of the Wind was published.

WISEMAN'S FEAR is a couple of steps down from NAME OF THE WIND. I think what caused me to finish NAME OF THE WIND was Patrick's lyrical writing, and I was kind of interested in Kvothe's adventures at the university. I thought when I read NAME in 2007 that the characters were two dimensional. I still thought that as I was reading WISEMAN'S FEAR. I realized that I was not really interested in the world that Patrick created.

I think I have read and listened to several interviews that Patrick has given as well as read all his blog posts, and I find them onteresting, but I don't think that is reason enough to continue reading his books.

I think if WISEMAN'S FEAR was released in 2008 or 2009, I may have felt more positive about the book. Waiting four years, though, I am not as interested.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

henderson,

Read the first 200 pages, and I found the story to be too boring. Thought Name of the Wind was alright, nothing special, but WISEMAN'S FEAR is just boring. Didn't really connect with Kvothe. The other characters are two dimensional. Don't really see why Patrick needed four years to produce this book, especially since he completed the trilogy before Name of the Wind was published.

WISEMAN'S FEAR is a couple of steps down from NAME OF THE WIND. I think what caused me to finish NAME OF THE WIND was Patrick's lyrical writing, and I was kind of interested in Kvothe's adventures at the university. I thought when I read NAME in 2007 that the characters were two dimensional. I still thought that as I was reading WISEMAN'S FEAR. I realized that I was not really interested in the world that Patrick created.

I think I have read and listened to several interviews that Patrick has given as well as read all his blog posts, and I find them onteresting, but I don't think that is reason enough to continue reading his books.

I think if WISEMAN'S FEAR was released in 2008 or 2009, I may have felt more positive about the book. Waiting four years, though, I am not as interested.

I think Rothfuss's Four Corners is a subtle creation. I've enjoyed both books and the discussion of those books. Sorry you didn't care fore WMF.

[henderson]

henderson,

I think Rothfuss's Four Corners is a subtle creation. I've enjoyed both books and the discussion of those books. Sorry you didn't care fore WMF.

Thanks.

I think the books may be too subtle for me, then. I find the discussions to be more entertaining than the books. The reason I checked out WISEMAN'S FEAR from the library was due to this thread.

[Selmy]

Why did WMF take so long to come out anyway?

[kuenjato]

It took so long due to the fact that he rewrote the original draft and about doubled its size.

[Selmy]

It took so long due to the fact that he rewrote the original draft and about doubled its size.

I still don't necessarily see why that would take 4 years.