The Pink Letter is a forgery by Alliser Thorne

[Jon Reborn]

For a while I was thinking that Thorne was the Hooded Man in Winterfell, but was having my doubts. What made me think this was how it would tie the Pink Letter to the attempted (so far!) assassination of Jon. Thorne could have provided Ramsay with the info in the letter.

But, as I said, I am having doubts. I don't think we've seen the last of Thorne, though.

So, if he is not the Hooded Man, what's he been up to?

Killing the rangers with him while they slept.

Getting back through the wall via some co-conspirators.

He's heard about the wedding of Jon's sister to the bastard of Bolton. He loves to get under Jon's skin and call him "bastard". He thinks Jon sent him out to die (which maybe he did...), which gives him even more motivation to get rid of him. I think Thorne and Marsh were of the same mind when it comes to Jon's policies.

The letter had a "blob of pink wax", not the Bolton seal.

Clydas (one of the co-conspirators) knew what was in the letter, which is why he was fearful and nervous when handing it to Jon.

A few holes, perhaps. Such as: How did Thorne know about Mance and the spearwives?

What do you folks think?

ETA:

The letter was written in maester's ink. Could have been provided to Thorne by Clydas. I think Ramsay would have written it in blood.

There were no pieces of Mance or spearwife included with the letter.

[Capon Breath]

I believe It would be impossible for Thorne to know the contents of the letter so I dont think so.

I think (although am not sure as I havent finished looking at all of the "evidence" yet) that the only possible* authors of the letter are

Ramsey - post torturing Mance

Mance

Asha with help from Theon (which assumes that Theon knows Abel = Mance and that Asha can Escape and send a Raven)

Stannis

* Possible in terms of what we have seen about who knows what bits of information at what point in time in the book.

My personal view is that the letter is written by Mance and is a pre-determined code agreed with Melisandre to provide an update on the status of the mission. (although to be fair I would possibly struggle to put together a coherent argument to prove it).

[The Great Cornholio!]

I also doubt Ramsey wrote the letter, but I would hardly conclude Thorne wrote it. I think Thorne is either dead, or close to it at this point.

[Lord of Cheese]

I think it's Ramsey's letter. Mance and friends are captured and Jon is stabbed.

The only thing that gives me pause is Mance revealing his identity and not keeping as Abel. The spear wives may have spilled under torture though. Flaying isn't pleasant.

[Ser Lepus]

How could Allister Thorne know who "Reek" is? I think not even Jon knows Ramsay had a minion called Reek.

[Buried Treasure]

But, as I said, I am having doubts. I don't think we've seen the last of Thorne, though.

So, if he is not the Hooded Man, what's he been up to?

If not dead then still ranging? Perhaps holed up somewhere?

Killing the rangers with him while they slept.

Thorne is a total jerk and hates Jon but is not entirely lost to honour - he returned to his place on the Wall from KL during a civil war when he could have easily deserted. He hates Jon and wants him dead but that is not enough to say he will start randomly murdering other sworn brothers who are out doing their duty. Besides the fact that these two men are experienced rangers and Thorne does not have experience in that area - killing them would have vastly reduced his own chances for surviving and Thorne would have known it.

Getting back through the wall via some co-conspirators.

If Thorne is on one side of the Wall, with anyone sympathetic to him on the other, how did they conspire?

He's heard about the wedding of Jon's sister to the bastard of Bolton. He loves to get under Jon's skin and call him "bastard". He thinks Jon sent him out to die (which maybe he did...), which gives him even more motivation to get rid of him. I think Thorne and Marsh were of the same mind when it comes to Jon's policies.

The letter had a "blob of pink wax", not the Bolton seal.

If Thorne did abandon his ranging he couldn't have heard about the wedding til after he got south of the wall, so what was his original plan? I really don't think Jon sent Thorne out just to die (he sent other useful men at the same time) but to get him away from Castle Black whilst fulfilling a useful purpose. If Thorne where still at Castle Black I could buy him being part of the kill Jon plot due to his personal emnity with Jon but Thorne is in many respects smarter than Marsh and if he had been around to see Jon's policies he might have been better able to appreciate they make sense.

Roose would certainly have the Bolton seal, Ramsay may not have one, the colour of the wax says enough about who it is from. Thorne used Jon's bastardy against him because it was Jon's sore spot but he does not have a personal fixation with bastardy. The repeated use of the word 'bastard' in the letter as well as the unusual addition of the word 'trueborn' in the signoff suggest it was written by somebody for whom that is really important. Ramsay hated his bastardy and that he was denied what he felt should be his as the blood of Bolton. He hates trueborn nobles sons for all the advantages they were given that he was denied. How much more must he hate someone such as Jon, given those same advantages despite also being a bastard! Now that Ramsay is 'trueborn' he can lord it over Jon, who despite getting the castle upbringing and the education, is still nothing but a bastard.

Clydas (one of the co-conspirators) knew what was in the letter, which is why he was fearful and nervous when handing it to Jon.

This doesn't make sense to me. Even if Clydas were a conspirator that helped smuggle Thorne across the Wall how would he know the contents of a letter about what was happening at Winterfell? The seal was unbroken. Clydas just had a bit of a premonition about the letter, especially with the only address of 'Bastard', Jon knew he was right about it even before cracking the seal: "You were right to come at once," Jon said. You were right to be afraid.

[The Great Cornholio!]

I think it's Ramsey's letter. Mance and friends are captured and Jon is stabbed.

The only thing that gives me pause is Mance revealing his identity and not keeping as Abel. The spear wives may have spilled under torture though. Flaying isn't pleasant.

I'm not so sure it's Ramsey. The use of the word Bastard has me scratching me head.

[Fire Eater]

How could have Thorne written the letter?

He didn't bring any ravens for the ranging, so how could he have sent the letter. If he arrived at the Wall to bring it, the rangers' coming would have been announced by a horn.

He seems to also know details that he couldn't have learned while ranging such as Mance Rayder being alive along with the women sent with him, as well as Reek and all the other events that transpired that are described in the letter.

[Jon Reborn]

Thorne could have got back through the wall at night at a pre-arranged time when a co-conspirator was on watch duty.

I thought each group of rangers had a couple ravens. If not, Thorne wouldn't need one if he was back at the Wall. He could just hand it to Clydas who then handed it to Jon.

If Thorne did kill or get away from the rangers he was with, it didn't necessarily have to be so far from the Wall that he wouldn't be able to find his way back.

All it would take is a conspirator listening outside a door at the right time for Thorne to learn about Mance. Perhaps there was communication with the Boltons.

As far as Thorne not being totally lost to honour, I'm not convinced. He was known and knows it would be his head if he deserted.

[unRobert]

Ramsay wrote it. It'd be a travesty to his character if it turns out he did not.

[4812622]

I really doubt Thorne could beat two hardened rangers in a swordfight, even if he stabbed one of them in the back. For one, he's not a traitor, just a gigantic prick. For two, he's spent Xty years abusing new recruits while everyone else was fighting twenty-foot tall bears and the like. And the rangers don't seem crafty enough to hide the diisdain against Jon needed for them to conspire with Thorne to revolt.

[Jon Reborn]

I agree that Thorne probably couldn't beat the rangers in a straight up fight, hence my thinking he may have killed them in their sleep.

He could have just slipped away while it was his watch or something. It's possible they could have been killed or injured in another way as well.

I also agree that he is mainly a gigantic prick. Doesn't necessarily mean he doesn't dislike Jon enough to conspire against him though.

[Jon Reborn]

Ramsay wrote it. It'd be a travesty to his character if it turns out he did not.

But why didn't he write it in blood and include a piece of skin like in the letter announcing his marriage?

[redriver]

Didn't Mel see that none of Thorne's ranging party would return alive in her fires?

My guess is if we see him again it will be as a wight.

As for the PL,I think Mance wrote it.I made a post in one of the PL threads showing that most of the key phrases in the letter were used by or around Mance at various times,including the bastard stuff.

[Jon Reborn]

Didn't Mel see that none of Thorne's ranging party would return alive in her fires?

My guess is if we see him again it will be as a wight.

As for the PL,I think Mance wrote it.I made a post in one of the PL threads showing that most of the key phrases in the letter were used by or around Mance at various times,including the bastard stuff.

I think Mel said that none of the rangers would return. A technicality I know, but leaves open the possibility that Thorne could return.

I think I read the post you are talking about, but don't remember if you got into what Mance's motivation would have been. It doesn't seem like something Mance would do to me.

[4812622]

I agree that Thorne probably couldn't beat the rangers in a straight up fight, hence my thinking he may have killed them in their sleep.

He could have just slipped away while it was his watch or something. It's possible they could have been killed or injured in another way as well.

I also agree that he is mainly a gigantic prick. Doesn't necessarily mean he doesn't dislike Jon enough to conspire against him though.

Fair points.

I suppose if the friendly faces of Bowen Marsh and Wick Whatever betray Jon, that really doesn't reflect well on the trustworthiness of Ser Alliser Thorne.

Didn't Mel see that none of Thorne's ranging party would return alive in her fires?

My guess is if we see him again it will be as a wight.

I remember the general gist of what Mel said.

"Nine rangers are out there. Three are dead. Not yet, but they will be. So you have to listen to me when they do."

And they were all random rangers who didn't do anything for the plot. Thorne wasn't among them, and that means that he is definitely still alive, or else Mel would have told Jon.

[IronIslands]

<p>

I believe It would be impossible for Thorne to know the contents of the letter so I dont think so.

I think (although am not sure as I havent finished looking at all of the "evidence" yet) that the only possible* authors of the letter are

Ramsey - post torturing Mance

Mance

Asha with help from Theon (which assumes that Theon knows Abel = Mance and that Asha can Escape and send a Raven)

Stannis

* Possible in terms of what we have seen about who knows what bits of information at what point in time in the book.

My personal view is that the letter is written by Mance and is a pre-determined code agreed with Melisandre to provide an update on the status of the mission. (although to be fair I would possibly struggle to put together a coherent argument to prove it).

Shouldn't Melisandre technically also be on the list? I don't know what motives she might have, but I guess you guys can figure that out. Sorry, that I can't contribute more, I need to reread the book some time. Edit: Apart from the repeated use of the word bastard, it is plausible that Ramsay is indeed the author. Back then when I read it, I was surprised he knew that Abel is Mance. But a spearwife might have told him. The only thing I found really odd was the timing of the letter. It was just perfect to be plausible.

[Jon Reborn]

<p>

Shouldn't Melisandre technically also be on the list? I don't know what motives she might have, but I guess you guys can figure that out. Sorry, that I can't contribute more, I need to reread the book some time. Edit: Apart from the repeated use of the word bastard, it is plausible that Ramsay is indeed the author. Back then when I read it, I was surprised he knew that Abel is Mance. But a spearwife might have told him. The only thing I found really odd was the timing of the letter. It was just perfect to be plausible.

That's a good point with the timing of the letter.

[redriver]

It looks it is feasable to an extent.Nine were sent out,eight rangers plus Thorne,in three parties of three,each party with two ravens.

Mel correctly predicted that three would be killed,none of them turned out to be Thorne.

So Thorne is at large with ravens.

Still don't know how he would know most of the stuff in the PL,though.

[little & less]

Ramsay wrote it. It'd be a travesty to his character if it turns out he did not.

I agree that he's the most logical choice and is also the most interesting choice.