Repurposed feminism - Why we still need it

[Sci-2]

People like to put 'qoutes' around evo psych and dismiss the arguments with a wave of their hand but there is a lot of empirical evidence backing evo psych logic.

Someone please provide this evidence.

/cue crickets

eta:

feminists. in before you say not all of them.

Well, why is your point relevant if you know it's not all of them?

[Theda Baratheon]

But one feminist does not and will never equate to all of feminism so because you dislike one thing that a woman who happens to be a feminist says, that does not make it right to dismiss a whole movement.

[Theda Baratheon]

Well, why is your point relevant if you know it's not all of them?

Exactly what I was about to say/ask.

[Sci-2]

Exactly what I was about to say/ask.

Heh, reading this thread you also anticipate/communicate my thoughts -> I swear we're telepathically linked!!! :eek:

[Theda Baratheon]

IT'S THE FEMINIST HIVEMIND! THE CAT'S OUT OF THE BAG NOW! :lol:

[karaddin]

I have been thinking about this pay gap thing. I know the numbers are there , but I don't think I have experienced it. I worked in a kitchen with all men , and i was the highest paid employee because when the company said, "This is what you will be making." I said, "No. You will have to pay me more, and this is why..." Then they said, "Ok". I mean, do these women know they are under paid ???

Edit : I started typing this before the conversation switched channels :(

My cousin experiences it, yes she's aware of it but it can be difficult to do anything about it. And she is not what I would call a timid personality either.

[Castel]

snip

Ah, the MRA/PUA Red Pill stuff . Let me just pause and talk about how hilarious it is whenever one group calls every other group a bunch of deluded idiots and claims the exclusive right to Truth. I've spent too much time reading the wrong things online I guess, I cannot help but find it amusing.

Someone please provide this evidence.

After that provide evidence of why we have to be bound to ideas designed to suit the lifestyles of Stone Age farmers.

[karaddin]

Theda and Sci - ever thought of visiting the US/UK respectively? Brain links come in handy in a relationship :P

[Sheogorath]

My cousin experiences it, yes she's aware of it but it can be difficult to do anything about it. And she is not what I would call a timid personality either.

Hire an attorney that is going to cost more than your raise *sigh*

[karaddin]

Hire an attorney that is going to cost more than your raise *sigh*

She was sticking it out till long service leave, which she has now. No idea why she's still there >_< It's an American company, so we like to scapegoat the corporate culture :P

[brook]

I guess it varies from place to place, but sometimes fathers don't have equivalent right.

ETA:some feminists also sometimes oppose equivalent right of a father.

Which feminists?

[Theda Baratheon]

Which feminists?

The ominous ''some feminists'' the scary ''THEY''

[Sheogorath]

She was sticking it out till long service leave, which she has now. No idea why she's still there >_< It's an American company, so we like to scapegoat the corporate culture :P

I prefer to work private rather than corporate. You know ? That could be the difference ? But there are plenty of awesome private restaurants for me to work at.

[karaddin]

I prefer to work private rather than corporate. You know ? That could be the difference ? But there are plenty of awesome private restaurants for me to work at.

I'm at a University, nice quasi-public ;) At least until you hit executive level the pay isn't negotiated individually, it's all in "levels" and "steps" which happily enforces equality.

[Sheogorath]

I'm at a University, nice quasi-public ;) At least until you hit executive level the pay isn't negotiated individually, it's all in "levels" and "steps" which happily enforces equality.

In my line of work it is skill based pay.

[Knez Snow]

After that provide evidence of why we have to be bound to ideas designed to suit the lifestyles of Stone Age farmers.

The reason why evo psych is still relevant is because we are still biologicaly hardwired like those people in caves. That does not mean that we should behave in same way, only that we should take that reallity into account when we discuss how we are going to live now.

[Theda Baratheon]

nvm~

[Castel]

The reason why evo psych is still relevant is because we are still biologicaly hardwired like those people in caves. That does not mean that we should behave in same way, only that we should take that reallity into account when we discuss how we are going to live now.

Often evopsych is just used as an excuse. Not as a descriptive tool, but as a prescriptive one. "I am the man, me sleeping around is not as bad because...monkeys 300,000 years ago" is just one example.You can understand why people have problems with it.

[Guest Raidne]

Well, I am very behind so sorry if the responses to posts a few pages back are not as relevant as they could be.

Karaddin, to address something more like the conversation you were trying to have, I think the main project facing feminism is how to transition from being people who see themselves as women first or men first - born out of obvious necessity as one must identify and coalesce the group one is trying to politically empower - to the end goal of feminism, which is to be free to see ourselves as people first, who maybe identify very strongly with a particular gender and maybe don't, or identify strongly with a certain mix of gendered traits or different gender identities at different times, or at the same point in time in different spheres. The trick is to do that without leaving the project of feminism too soon, leaving everyone vulnerable to stumbling over the loose threads we left hanging all over the place. The one I've had the most experience with is gender in heterosexual relationships, but separating out recognition and acknowledgement of a healthy sexuality from the "objectification" part of sexual objectification is another one. A good example is this issue this one author in Slate's XX section has made a theme of: when we criticize a woman for being "too sexy," be it an article in the Atlantic by a teacher bemoaning the short skirts worn by her 15 year old female students or housewives or Rush Limbaugh hang-wringing over Beyonce's animal fierceness during the Superbowl halftime show, we are objectifying that woman - by complaining about this idea that she's "objectifying herself." That's a twisted knot that we need to untangle. I don't feel like the men, for instance, showing off their hard-earned abs in the gay pride parade are demeaning men as serious creatures worthy of respect everywhere. I think these are all essentially transitional issues as we move from feminism to post-feminism, and I have no earthly idea how long that's going to take in my own culture, much less others, or what it will look like 100 years from now in South Korea, Afghanistan, Peru, France, or Saudi Arabia.

[Knez Snow]

Evo psych is descriptive in nature, not prescriptive. Only thing I would say is that we have to take reality into account when we discuss how things ought to be. I understand that some people might abuse it in that sence, but that is not relevant to the fact that evopsy is neccesary, and it can be used properly as well.

Also it's more than just monkys 300000 years ago. It still applys, and you can even observe and explain a lot of things in today world using evo psy