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Targaryen madness, Rhaegar and Jon?


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66 replies to this topic

#1 Ruby Chevrolet

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 10:14 PM

Madness is in the genes. And it develops late -- King Aerys was highly-regarded until he suffered a trauma and succumbed to madness.

Prince Rhaegar was not highly regarded to start. Then he had a massive personality change and people seemed to like him. Then he left his wife and ran off with a High Lord's daughter. Did he go mad?

And if Jon Snow is Aerys' grandson, Viserys' nephew and Rhaegar's son, could he be a ticking time-bomb too? And if he needs a catalyst, will it be his brothers' attempt to kill him?

#2 Dain Storm

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 10:21 PM

I would say Rhaegar was highly regarded at first then he screwed up big time, failing to live up to his potential. Rhaegar may have been a little mad, some evidence may point out to him being self obsessed with TPTWP prophecy. There's also a chance he could've gone mad later in his life. Aerys wasn't really mad at Rhaegar's age, and infact seemed like a swell guy. We'll never really know for sure.

If he is a Targaryen, I'd say Jon takes after Aegon III personality wise, who as far as we know, wasn't a mad Targaryen and actually a pretty good king. Who knows? He may change.

#3 RenlyIsNotRight

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 10:25 PM

I haven't seen any sign of it in Jon so far. I think that in addition to the innate nature of the "Targ madness" though there is also that element of entitlement most of the Targs have that enhances it, something Jon does not have going on. I guess it could set in later but as of right now I really don't see it in Jon.

Rhaegar though, I'd argue he was probably a bit more "Targ mad" than most say he was.

#4 moonsblood

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 10:31 PM

Rhaeger seemed more melancholy than mad, but he was obsessed with prophecies so you never know. I think Dany might be driven mad by all her betrayal prophecies, the seeds of paranoia have been planted, combine that with her family history, it doesn't bode well.

#5 NedStark2013

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 01:50 AM

Aemon that being the old Targ at the wall doesn't seem mad to me. Rhag and Lyanna likely eloped and not sure Id call that madness. No where does it say Lyanna wished to be Roberts wife. She even commented about him not likely beong faithful to her. There is no sign of rape unless its revealed by Reed to Snow how he was concieved or a letter written by Ned given to Jon by Reed.
Either way I am not convinced Rhag went mad at any point.

Edited by NedStark2013, 14 April 2013 - 01:51 AM.


#6 Sansa_Stark

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 01:52 AM

Viserys was mad, Aerys was madder, and Rhaegar was the maddest of them all....

#7 The Storm King

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 01:54 AM

i dont think rhaegar had the madness. and i think Jon is in the end more stark than targaryen. that is if we accept R+L i mean E+A is my favorite but evidence forces me to believe R+L

#8 Dain Storm

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 01:55 AM

No where does it say Lyanna wished to be Roberts wife. She even commented about him not likely beong faithful to her.


Yet she turned out to be an immature hypocrite. *Prepares for Stark fans to come to her defense, even though I'm a stark fan*

#9 Sansa_Stark

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 01:56 AM

Maybe it's only Targs born from incest that are mad, we know that Baelor Breakspear was a stand up guy. Jon Snow shouldn't be any different.

Edited by FOREVERALONE, 14 April 2013 - 01:57 AM.


#10 PrinceHenryris

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 01:57 AM

Targa dance on the madness/greatness coin.

#11 Young Nan

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 02:03 AM

I think Rhaegar may have been a bit mad, I dunno, anyone who thinks they are the fulfillment of an ancient prophecy is either really self-centered or a bit wacko. I think he gets idolized way too much because he died in his prime. Maybe if he had gotten older, he would have gone crazy too.

I also want to point out that Viserys may not have had "the madness". As others said, Aerys was really well liked and didn't go crazy until he was older. Viserys was dealt a really shitty hand in life. Unlike Dany, he experienced his house's defeat firsthand, watched his mother die in childbirth, and had to basically raise his little sister starting at 8 years old, while humiliating himself going around begging and selling off his family belongings. I would argue that Viserys was driven mad by his life and may have otherwise turned out differently.

Aside from that, not all Targs are mad. Aemon and Baelor breakspear and Egg were all kickass and not crazy. So Jon could still get the " Aemon" genes.

#12 shockwave

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 02:06 AM

Maybe it's only Targs born from incest that are mad, we know that Baelor Breakspear was a stand up guy. Jon Snow shouldn't be any different.

Aerys might not have been Born out of incest. Aegon v only had one daughter, who married a Baratheon. And breakspears brother Rhaegel was mad.

#13 Darkstar For King

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 02:10 AM

Maybe it's only Targs born from incest that are mad, we know that Baelor Breakspear was a stand up guy. Jon Snow shouldn't be any different.


Bealor had a brother, Rhaegel and he was mad so I wouldn't say it only ones born of incest. The Wiki says it's in their Blood but I'm not really sure.

ninja'd

Edited by Darkstar For King, 14 April 2013 - 02:11 AM.


#14 The Storm King

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 02:14 AM

this is how i undertsand it: The effects of Incest over generations has corrupted the gene pool. (omg jeyne poole sounds like gene pool) the effects of this corruption might randomly take root in certain individuals of the line and others might be free of it.

#15 cade

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 02:16 AM

Not every Targ is bound to madness, at least not in a negative sense. Here's an old GRRM quote on the subject:

"The Targaryens have heavily interbred, like the Ptolemys of Egypt. As any horse or dog breeder can tell you, interbreeding accentuates both flaws and virtues, and pushes a lineage toward the extremes. Also, there's sometimes a fine line between madness and greatness. Daeron I, the boy king who led a war of conquest, and even the saintly Baelor I could also be considered "mad," if seen in a different light. ((And I must confess, I love grey characters, and those who can be interperted in many different ways. Both as a reader and a writer, I want complexity and subtlety in my fiction))"

#16 JonCon's Red Beard

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 02:20 AM

Rhaegar wasn't mad as his father was. Neither was Viserys, he went mad after all he went through.

#17 Ice Turtle

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 02:24 AM

Even if Rhaegar was a little on the mad side (and he probably was) he was more like Baleor the Blessed than Aerys. And not all Targs are mad.

#18 danm_999

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 02:31 AM

Madness is in the genes. And it develops late -- King Aerys was highly-regarded until he suffered a trauma and succumbed to madness.


Well whilst Aerys madness went into overdrive after Duskendale, Barristan says his fits of madness was always present in one form or another, they simply became longer and more frequent. Similarly, he said that even as a boy Viserys displayed the same characteristics, the same taint of madness.

From all accounts, this does not appear to be a problem Rhaegar had, nor one Jon has.

#19 Ygrain

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 03:09 AM

Well whilst Aerys madness went into overdrive after Duskendale, Barristan says his fits of madness was always present in one form or another, they simply became longer and more frequent. Similarly, he said that even as a boy Viserys displayed the same characteristics, the same taint of madness.

From all accounts, this does not appear to be a problem Rhaegar had, nor one Jon has.

Agreed.

#20 King of Winters

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 03:22 AM

Well whilst Aerys madness went into overdrive after Duskendale, Barristan says his fits of madness was always present in one form or another, they simply became longer and more frequent. Similarly, he said that even as a boy Viserys displayed the same characteristics, the same taint of madness.

From all accounts, this does not appear to be a problem Rhaegar had, nor one Jon has.

/agree.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':agree:' /> From what we've seen I think that Jon isn't mad and is mostly Stark.