Jon using both Dawn and the Night's Watch against The Others?

[King of Winters]

One of the popular theories about Lightbringer is that it's the NW and Jon will use it to fight The Others. I like the theory about Dawn being the original Lightbringer and also being Dragonsteel.

And I was wondering could the NW be Lightbringer but Jon still wields Dawn, and if it's Dragonsteel, then Jon has a purpose to use it. He has a sword that's made of a substance The Others can't stand and can kill them and unites men against them with Dawn when they see it can kill Others, but the NW still Lightbringer.

Just a little thought I had.

[yolkboy]

Well I'm for Lightbringer being a multi-layered concept, I don't see why it can't be both a weapon and the NW.

[Mladen]

I know Dawn is impressive sword and has this very mythological conotation, not mentioning it is connected with events in ToJ, but it`s too much for my taste. Jon already has a sword - Longclaw, his Lightbringer will be NW, so I honestly don`t see how Dawn fits into it.

[yolkboy]

I know Dawn is impressive sword and has this very mythological conotation, not mentioning it is connected with events in ToJ, but it`s too much for my taste. Jon already has a sword - Longclaw, his Lightbringer will be NW, so I honestly don`t see how Dawn fits into it.

Because it could be that dragonsteel is meteorite metal, therefore Dawn. I don't think many Others will be killed with Valyrian Steel, personally.

[Sword of the Mid-Afternoon]

I like it.Only problem is how Jon gets it. Works a lot better if N+A=J so I wonder how it will work if R+L=J?

Also, this impending war with the Others is essentially the War for Dawn Part 2 so couldn't Jon (assumed by some to be AAR and tPtwP) wield the greatsword Dawn which makes him the Sword of the Morning during the War for Dawn? Just a thought I had

[butterbumps!]

I know Dawn is impressive sword and has this very mythological conotation, not mentioning it is connected with events in ToJ, but it`s too much for my taste. Jon already has a sword - Longclaw, his Lightbringer will be NW, so I honestly don`t see how Dawn fits into it.

The Last Hero had a sword when he set out North too. Unfortunately, the cold shattered it. Then he got help from the children. Whether the children gave him the blade is never mentioned, but we do know in the end he used a "dragonsteel" one successfully (so the Last Hero had 2 swords in his time).

I don't buy Valyrian Steel as being effective against the Others. I really think it's something else, and my money's been on Dawn=dragonsteel for a while.

but, for the record, I don't think either the NW or Dawn are "Lightbringer." Anything associated with AA is bad news.

[yolkboy]

I like it.Only problem is how gets it. Works a lot better if N+A=J so I wonder how it will work if R+L=J?

Also, this impending war with the Others is essentially the War for Dawn Part 2 so couldn't Jon (assumed by some to be AAR and tPtwP) wield the greatsword Dawn which makes him the Sword of the Morning during the War for Dawn? Just a thought I had

Sword of the morning might be an office dedicated to holding Dawn until the return of Azor Ahai - and AA doesnt really need any connection with House Dayne.

[Mladen]

Because it could be that dragonsteel is meteorite metal, therefore Dawn. I don't think many Others will be killed with Valyrian Steel, personally.

The Last Hero had a sword when he set out North too. Unfortunately, the cold shattered it. Then he got help from the children. Whether the children gave him the blade is never mentioned, but we do know in the end he used a "dragonsteel" one successfully (so the Last Hero had 2 swords in his time).

I don't buy Valyrian Steel as being effective against the Others. I really think it's something else, and my money's been on Dawn=dragonsteel for a while.

but, for the record, I don't think either the NW or Dawn are "Lightbringer." Anything associated with AA is bad news.

So, you both think that Dawn is made of dragonsteel? Interesting...

Butterbumps, you think he had a sword that was shattered and then he got Dawn. Basically, Jon`s Longclaw would have to be shattered before he could have Dawn? And lastly, didn`t Jon used Longclaw against the Others, and it sliced them, but it was uneffective?

[yolkboy]

So, you both think that Dawn is made of dragonsteel? Interesting...

Dragonglass - nothing to do with dragons, made from cooled lava (used to be HOT), lethal vs. Others

Dragonsteel - nothing to do with dragons, made from cooled meteorite (used to be HOT), lethal vs. Others.

[Mladen]

Dragonglass - nothing to do with dragons, made from cooled lava (used to be HOT), lethal vs. Others

Dragonsteel - nothing to do with dragons, made from cooled meteorite (used to be HOT), lethal vs. Others.

OK, but you presume that Jon and Sam were wrong and that dragosteel isn`t Valyrian steel, right?

[Florina Laufeyson]

Why is Jon wielding a sword that doesnt belong to him or his lineage again?

[yolkboy]

OK, but you presume that Jon and Sam were wrong and that dragosteel isn`t Valyrian steel, right?

Seeing as Jon had never heard of dragonsteel before that moment, i think it's more than possible he was wrong with his assumption.

[yolkboy]

Why is Jon wielding a sword that doesnt belong to him or his lineage again?

ah just to save the universe and that kinda thing.

No seriously, Longclaw wans't belonging to him or his lineage not so long ago.

[butterbumps!]

So, you both think that Dawn is made of dragonsteel? Interesting...

Butterbumps, you think he had a sword that was shattered and then he got Dawn. Basically, Jon`s Longclaw would have to be shattered before he could have Dawn? And lastly, didn`t Jon used Longclaw against the Others, and it sliced them, but it was uneffective?

I don't think it's imperative that Jon's sword shatters. I brought up the history of it to show that in the event that Longclaw, and Valyrian steel prove ineffective, it actually fits within the original story for Jon to procure a different sword.

Jon has never battled an Other. We haven't seen Valyrian Steel tested against an Other. Royce in the Prologue used Castle forged steel.

Why is Jon wielding a sword that doesnt belong to him or his lineage again?

Dawn doesn't pass along in the Dayne family the way other family swords do. The "Sword of the Morning" is a position of proven worth. My take is that this office is not merely a reward for those worthy to wield it, but rather those deemed worthy protect it.

The Daynes are an ancient house, they are First Men, and the timeline given by Darkstar says they've been around for 10,000 years. My suspicion is that they were given the task of protecting Dawn for the next Long Night to give to the new "last hero" (or whoever leads this battle). So Jon (or whoeever) doesn't have to be a Dayne to use it in the Long Night.

[Ser Creighton]

So, you both think that Dawn is made of dragonsteel? Interesting...

Butterbumps, you think he had a sword that was shattered and then he got Dawn. Basically, Jon`s Longclaw would have to be shattered before he could have Dawn? And lastly, didn`t Jon used Longclaw against the Others, and it sliced them, but it was uneffective?

No, Jon has never faced an Other, he did face a Wight with a regular sword though. Royce faced an Other and he shattered the steel sword. AA had two swords before Lightbringer. So far in the books we have never seen Valyrian steel against an Other.

Dawn very well could be Lightbringer, and I would put my money on it.

The Night's Watch being Lightbringer I don't by for a second as Lightbringer pre-dates the watch and with AA and the Last Hero we are given swords multiple times. Jon even dreams of the Sword.

As for how Jon would get Dawn, everyone keeps thinking the Others are this little red herring and most people treat the Others like they are Wights. I consider them to be very intelligent beings. I think they are going to send a small force as a diversion against the Wall, but if your going to attack a country or start a war you want the first attack to be devestating. Beating what little there is of the Watch does nothing for them and the wall is bad mojo to them.

They are going to sail right past the wall and the main force is going to sack either KL or White Harbor, they will have a giant mass of Wights before it is over. They will probably hit other locations as well. Dawn is in the south but many people think Darkstar is going to steal it and flee Dorne. It's going to find it's way to Jon who will have to come south to deal with the Others. Remember where Dany saw the Wights and Others, it was on the Trident, it didn't say which direction they were coming from. Jon dreamed of them at the Wall, but is alone and there is not an army of them like Dany saw.

[Ser Creighton]

Dragonglass - nothing to do with dragons, made from cooled lava (used to be HOT), lethal vs. Others

Dragonsteel - nothing to do with dragons, made from cooled meteorite (used to be HOT), lethal vs. Others.

All metals used to be hot, most stone too, like Granite. Obsidian is easy enough to find, we see it being common enough, but it was the children who gave the watch the Obsidian, spell blended Dragonglass perhaps? It sure doesn't act like Obsidian, wasn't it glowing and all hot when Puddles bought the farm.

[butterbumps!]

All metals used to be hot, most stone too, like Granite. Obsidian is easy enough to find, we see it being common enough, but it was the children who gave the watch the Obsidian, spell blended Dragonglass perhaps? It sure doesn't act like Obsidian, wasn't it glowing and all hot when Puddles bought the farm.

No, the obsidian became extremely cold.

[yolkboy]

Remember where Dany saw the Wights and Others, it was on the Trident, it didn't say which direction they were coming from. Jon dreamed of them at the Wall, but is alone and there is not an army of them like Dany saw.

they were armored all in ice, but she bathed them in dragonfire and they melted away like dew and turned the Trident into a torrent.

I personally don't think this is Others, rather just a regular army who happened to be caked in snow and ice. I think the armoured in ice is just a bit of misdirection, these visions are usually non-literal when it comes to descriptions.

[Mladen]

Seeing as Jon had never heard of dragonsteel before that moment, i think it's more than possible he was wrong with his assumption.

That`s what I thought too based on what you said.

I don't think it's imperative that Jon's sword shatters. I brought up the history of it to show that in the event that Longclaw, and Valyrian steel prove ineffective, it actually fits within the original story for Jon to procure a different sword.

Jon has never battled an Other. We haven't seen Valyrian Steel tested against an Other. Royce in the Prologue used Castle forged steel.

I forgot about the fact, Jon fight with wight, not Other. I always have problems differentiating those two :)

[jamal99]

I think that Dawn will certainly play a part in the story, but I'm not so sure about Jon wielding it. Just the name Dawn can tell that it will bring back the dawn.