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[BOOK SPOILERS] Theory: Ramsay hunts a Stark in Season 4?


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#1 Lord Jakkor

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 04:54 PM

So in the books Osha and Rickon split off from Bran pretty early on and we never see where they go but there's indications they made their way to Skaagos.

In the show this happens much later at the Gift. Ramsay mentioned something in Season 3 about possibly going hunting for Bran and Rickon when Theon told him he never really killed them. Could the show use this as a way to

a) keep Rickon & Osha on the show another season, and
/cool.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='B)' /> give Ramsay/Theon something to do in Season 4 until they go to Winterfell (it would also help foster more hatred, having Ramsay literally hunting the young Rickon).

Bran tells Rickon to head for the Last Heart and the Umber's, which is halfway between the Gift and the Dreadfort (Ramsay's location). Could Ramsay and Theon be in the Last Heart delivering a message for Roose and when Rickon turns up they give chase to the sea where they escape on a boat to Skaagos?

It could explain nicely why of all places they wind up there. Thoughts?

#2 NomadicDirewolf

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 02:44 AM

its certainly a possibility, they might leave it until later on in the season seeing as they might be involving the ramsay-theon storyline with yara (though they might want to wrap that one up early if they are doing the kingsmoot this season)

#3 Nezzer

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 03:28 AM

I really hope so. I'm looking forward to Ramsay searching for Rickon in several villages and burning them down if the villagers don't know or cooperate. I also hope that, in the end of the hunt, Ramsay almost gets his hands on Rickon, but Theon helps him escape, making Ramsay very angry and losing some body parts as a consequence.

Actually, I think it's pretty likely we will se a hunt for Rickon next season. Other than Theon, Ramsay is still the only living person in the North who knows that Bran and Rickon are still alive, and someone else has to learn that Rickon is still alive and heading to Skagos and tell Manderly later, otherwise Davos can't be sent after Rickon. Also, I don't think they'd make Ramsay suggest hunting the Stark boys in S3 if he's never going to do that, especially when they have to give Ramsay and Theon something to do in S4. I'm feeling very optimistic about Theon's storyline in S4.

#4 Dragonstoned

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 03:43 AM

I also hope that, in the end of the hunt, Ramsay almost gets his hands on Rickon, but Theon helps him escape, making Ramsay very angry and losing some body parts as a consequence.


This. Moar redemption!

#5 Nezzer

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 03:52 AM

This. Moar redemption!

Theon still has too many teeth, fingers and toes /devil.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':devil:' />. But people have to start hating Ramsay really bad, so that he can replace Joffrey as the top villain of the show.

#6 Frey-A-La-Mode

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 04:45 AM

Theon still has too many teeth, fingers and toes /devil.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':devil:' />. But people have to start hating Ramsay really bad, so that he can replace Joffrey as the top villain of the show.


I'd just like to say first that your screenshot of Ramsay is super creepy, love it! And I think you're right about your predictions. It seems likely that they'll keep Osha around a little longer. Even GRRM is impressed with her. And I like that we see more of Rickon too. I always felt cheated that we didn't get more of him in the books. The Davos/Osha/Rickon subplot is the one that I think I'm looking forward to the most in TWOW

#7 Falrinn

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 11:38 AM

Definitely possible. They need to keep the actors somewhat involved in the show, and that would probably be the most viable way to do it.

Skagos isn't a place most would want to go, but if it was a choice between Skagos and getting caught by Ramsey, just about anyone would pick Skagos. Worst case scenario on Skagos is that you get killed and eaten, which is preferable to the kind of deranged torture Ramsey would come up with.

#8 PatrickStormborn

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 11:41 AM

I'd rather they just left Theon until they were ready to begin using his ADwD plot, as opposed to creating a plot that will ultimately serve no purpose in the long-term.

#9 Weeping Sore

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 11:49 AM

I really hope so. I'm looking forward to Ramsay searching for Rickon in several villages and burning them down if the villagers don't know or cooperate. I also hope that, in the end of the hunt, Ramsay almost gets his hands on Rickon, but Theon helps him escape, making Ramsay very angry and losing some body parts as a consequence.

Actually, I think it's pretty likely we will se a hunt for Rickon next season. Other than Theon, Ramsay is still the only living person in the North who knows that Bran and Rickon are still alive, and someone else has to learn that Rickon is still alive and heading to Skagos and tell Manderly later, otherwise Davos can't be sent after Rickon. Also, I don't think they'd make Ramsay suggest hunting the Stark boys in S3 if he's never going to do that, especially when they have to give Ramsay and Theon something to do in S4. I'm feeling very optimistic about Theon's storyline in S4.


I think you're dead-on here. Atrocities. Ramsay may be feeling a free hand now that Dad's Warden of the North.

If they introduce Ramsay's dogs, they may get the worst of a tangle with Shaggydog. I could imagine Ramsay being quite upset about this, with not-so-fun consequences for those around him.

#10 oprahnoodlemantra

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 03:10 PM

I'd rather they just left Theon until they were ready to begin using his ADwD plot, as opposed to creating a plot that will ultimately serve no purpose in the long-term.


Technically that plot happens right after the RW so it's possible some of it starts showing up in season 4. Not only will they have to stop the Theon torture porn before it gets old, but they'll also need to give Roose Bolton something to do so viewers don't forget him. In the books he goes North right after killing Robb.

#11 Filleted Man

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 04:11 PM

I want to see a cloak of flayed skin. I know there wasn't one in the book, but think of Ramsay wearing a hooded cloak made from a person. That would be creepy.

#12 Nezzer

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 04:34 PM

I want to see a cloak of flayed skin. I know there wasn't one in the book, but think of Ramsay wearing a hooded cloak made from a person. That would be creepy.

Yeah, I'd love to see Ramsay wearing Dagmer's face as a mask to mess with Theon /devil.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':devil:' />

Edited by Nezzer, 28 June 2013 - 04:34 PM.


#13 Werthead

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 05:41 PM

I'd rather they just left Theon until they were ready to begin using his ADwD plot, as opposed to creating a plot that will ultimately serve no purpose in the long-term.


That might be better for pacing, but it's not going to happen. They created a whole new storyline this season to keep Theon on-screen, and will almost certainly do the same thing again in Season 4 before reaching his ADWD material in Season 5. The producers are also huge fans of both Alfie Allen and Natalia Tena. A "Ramsay/Theon chasing Rickon and Osha" storyline seems to be a fairly easy way of keeping both Theon and Osha in play and on screen.

If they don't go overboard with it, it could be okay. If it takes too much time away from actual book storylines, that may be a different matter. But, oddly, with Season 4 looking like it's going to be using most of the 10 episodes to cover less than one-third of ASoS and with them not casting any of the AFFC/ADWD characters (so far), they actually do have some time to add in a few extra storylines. As well as this one, I also think we'll see a much-expanded Adventures of Arya and the Hound sequence as well.

#14 The Idiots Lantern

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 05:44 PM

Doesn't Ramsey have other stuff he's going to be doing in Season 4?

#15 Werthead

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 06:06 PM

Doesn't Ramsey have other stuff he's going to be doing in Season 4?


In the books we hear Ramsay has Theon as a prisoner at the Dreadfort (in ASoS) and then nothing more until he shows up in Theon's POV in ADWD. For the period covered by the second half of Season 4 (basically the latter part ASoS) he isn't doing anything at all in the book other than flaying Theon lots more. And I don't think the producers are going to give us another ten episodes of Theon-flaying next year.

Edited by Werthead, 28 June 2013 - 06:07 PM.


#16 go joff go

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 09:43 PM

Also they need to develop Ramsey with a show not tell approach, b/c so much of what we learn about Ramsey in the book is by the tell and not show approach

#17 Frey-A-La-Mode

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 09:49 PM

I want to see a cloak of flayed skin. I know there wasn't one in the book, but think of Ramsay wearing a hooded cloak made from a person. That would be creepy.


Ramsay mentions in the infamous Bastard Letter that he made Mance a cloak out of the skins of the six washerwomen. Of course, he also mentions Stannis is dead, so we don't know how much stock to put in it.

#18 Python

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 10:07 PM

If Theon does help Rickon escape, theirs a chance he might know where they are going, so the show might change some aspects and maybe Theon somehow tells Manderly where they went blah blah and then Davos seeks out to find them or something like that.


#19 ChozenOne

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 10:18 PM

If Theon does help Rickon escape, theirs a chance he might know where they are going, so the show might change some aspects and maybe Theon somehow tells Manderly where they went blah blah and then Davos seeks out to find them or something like that.


Not bad. I could definately see that happening, considering there is not a Wex character in the show (even though Theon did say the name in his speech in season 2). Maybe he is even the one that suggests Skagos to Osha in the first place.

Edited by ChozenOne, 28 June 2013 - 10:19 PM.


#20 King Tommen

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 01:33 AM

While I agree that they'll be doing something with Ramsay and Theon in S4 that doesn't involve endless torture, I have a hard time reconciling the "hunting Rickon and Osha" theory with the fact that the show clearly set Yara on a collision course with Ramsay and the Dreadfort in the S3 finale. She's already on a ship and making her way there.

I can't see how they avoid this confrontation in S4 so my theory is that instead of this being looked at as "filler" material, that Yara going to the Dreadfort will be significant to the future story.

Here's the issue: Balon's going to die relatively early in the season (because of the order of the leeches, he'll bite it before Joffrey does almost assuredly). Yara won't be there for that (just like she wasn't there for his death in the books) but it doesn't seem logical to have her by Balon's side in the S3 finale, and have her leave on a huge mission and then immediately turn around a few episodes later to attend the Kingsmoot. You wouldn't have even bothered to send her off if that were the case, she could have just remained on the Iron Islands and never left at all.

So she's headed to the Dreadfort and probably won't be at the Kingsmoot. There's obviously a question of whether there will be a Kingsmoot at all and if it would even be in S4 but I highly doubt you can have Balon die so early and then not address Euron and Victarion until a year later. And those characters play too big of a role to jettison completely. There will be casting news in the next little while that will help confirm the placement and/or existence of the Kingsmoot in S4 which should help put some of these pieces together.

And while Yara not being present at the Kingsmoot is a change, it can certainly still happen without her. So once you remove her from that plotline, if you fast forward afterwards in the books, she's at Deepwood Motte just hanging around and then she eventually links up with Stannis and finally with Theon as he helps Jeyne Poole escape from Ramsay. At the end of ADwD, she's trying to get Theon pardoned by Stannis and they've more or less written Jeyne Poole out of the story.

That's not really compelling material for her over the course of the next couple seasons so what could be a better use for the character while still having her end up in the same spot? How about she goes to the Dreadfort and is captured by Ramsay while trying to free Theon. Then she becomes Ramsay's plaything and additional way to torture Theon. She would take up the Jeyne Poole role (not in terms of posing as Arya but as Ramsay's new toy that Theon feels he needs to save to redeem himself). In terms of character consolidation, it makes a lot of sense since they would no longer need to introduce the problematic Jeyne Poole character who they have not established and they can rid themselves of the problematic fake Arya storyline which hinges on the audience buying some random new girl would fool all the Northerners as Arya. It makes Theon's redemption arc more powerful as he would be trying to get his own sister (the only person alive who truly cares for him) out of the clutches of Ramsay. It would make so much more sense that he would be driven to desperation to save her as opposed to a girl he supposedly knew in Winterfell but of whom the audience has never seen of in terms of a relationship.

I have no idea if they'd have a wedding necessarily as I'm not sure what the point would be but they'd all end up going to Winterfell and you can write any number of reasons why you'd be gathering all the other Northerners there as well. Roose has already mentioned to Walder that he'll end up at Winterfell at some point so all of that plot remains in place.

This way, Theon can eventually save Yara and they can both run into Stannis together and the storyline is more streamlined and efficient.

Of course, in saying all of this, I'm sure they'll just announce that they've cast Jeyne Poole as soon as I post this and all of this will mean nothing.