Val's Eyes(potential crackpot)

[Pinkie Baelish]

Val's eyes were originally described as grey, but in ADWD, they are described as blue, after she returns with Tormund. This is confirmed in the ASOIAF wiki page.

What gives? Was it another Jeyne Westerling writing misstep from Martin? Or could it be something more? I saw an interesting theory proposed on another forum that Jon will be the Night's King and Val his queen(she has pale skin and apparently blue eyes now). Val leaves on an expedition to find Tormund. Could something have happened to her in the Haunted Forest that had something to do with the Others? Is it possible that she has been turned by the Others, and will revive Jon in TWOW?

I'm probably just crackpotting here. What do you guys think?

[Ramsay the Bastard]

she's a secret targaryen... with blue eyes

[daario's man]

That would be a hell of a twist, would Jon have to be defeated by Tormund (closest thing to KBtW) and Roose (Warden of the North) in a repeat of the last NK?

[The Dornishman's Wife]

I saw an interesting theory proposed on another forum that Jon will be the Night's King and Val his queen(she has pale skin and apparently blue eyes now).

As long as it gets Val & Jon together, I'm all for it :drool:

Though I think GRRM might just be pulling a Renly here.

[Winter's Knight]

She's a highly intelligent wight?

[Faydra]

Nice catch. Let's hope it's not a mistake.

[Pinkie Baelish]

That would be a hell of a twist, would Jon have to be defeated by Tormund (closest thing to KBtW) and Roose (Warden of the North) in a repeat of the last NK?

Heh, so Roose Bolton would be the hero that we secretly knew he was all along? I like it.

But in all honesty, if Jon does become the Night's King, the only man that I can see leading the fight against him is Stannis, who might ally with Tormund or Mance(if Mance is rescued from Winterfell and pardoned by Stannis, which is unlikely).

But yeah, I'm genuinely intrigued by this now. I could just be overlooking into it, and this could simply be a mistake on Martin's part(like that time he described Renly's eyes as green).

She's a highly intelligent wight?

This is what's bugging me about this theory. Wights are generally idiots. So what's special about Val that she gets to be intelligent? Unless the Others are more clever than we thought, and some of their reanimated corpses can function normally(highly unlikely, I'm guessing). Do we know for sure that the original Night's Queen was an Other? Or was she a corpse?

[Burdette]

Heh, so Roose Bolton would be the hero that we secretly knew he was all along? I like it.

But in all honesty, if Jon does become the Night's King, the only man that I can see leading the fight against him is Stannis, who might ally with Tormund or Mance(if Mance is rescued from Winterfell and pardoned by Stannis, which is unlikely).

But yeah, I'm genuinely intrigued by this now. I could just be overlooking into it, and this could simply be a mistake on Martin's part(like that time he described Renly's eyes as green).

Haha this has to be a mistake (god I hope so).

I have to admit though, it would be intriguing if Stannis does end up being AA and Jon (the leading candidate) is on the other side. Especially with R+L and all that. Huh...

[Knight Of Winter]

Probably just a slip on Martin's part. Much like Jeyne's hips or Renly's eyes.

[The Dornishman's Wife]

I've just revisited the scene where her eyes are described as blue, and noticed that in the same scene, her face is flushed (admittedly, the devil's advocate could say that it might be painted on) and even more importantly, her breath is visible in the cold air. This would imply that in any case she is still warm-blooded.

[MotherAnduin]

Heh, so Roose Bolton would be the hero that we secretly knew he was all along? I like it.

But in all honesty, if Jon does become the Night's King, the only man that I can see leading the fight against him is Stannis, who might ally with Tormund or Mance(if Mance is rescued from Winterfell and pardoned by Stannis, which is unlikely).

But yeah, I'm genuinely intrigued by this now. I could just be overlooking into it, and this could simply be a mistake on Martin's part(like that time he described Renly's eyes as green).

This is what's bugging me about this theory. Wights are generally idiots. So what's special about Val that she gets to be intelligent? Unless the Others are more clever than we thought, and some of their reanimated corpses can function normally(highly unlikely, I'm guessing). Do we know for sure that the original Night's Queen was an Other? Or was she a corpse?

Coldhands is pretty intelligent.

[David Selig]

Gray eyes sometimes look blue at certain light and angles, so no big deal.

[the trees have eyes]

There seem to be 3 categories.

The wights are animated undead. They have no humanity left in them and bear the wounds they bore when they died (Othor, Jaffar Flowers). They can't be killed (as they are already dead - though their bodies can be burnt) and also can't speak. They have blue eyes and they are icy cold - as they have no beating heart or body processes creating heat. They also seem to bring intense cold with them (Jon notices this when fighting dead Othor, Sam on the Fist of the First Men). They are obvious to spot and there is nothing in Val's appearance or behaviour that fits this.

The resurrected are alive, they are living breathing warm human beings. They retain their personalities though small pieces of this seem to be lost with each further resurrection. Again they bear the wounds they bore when they died (Beric) though the damage or decay the body suffers before resurrection is also present (Catelyn). They retain their eye colour. There is no sign of this in Val, no memory lapses, no confusion or strange behaviour, no damage, no psychological trauma or memory of death as Beric or Catelyn have. She remains entirely herself, in appearance and in character.

The sentient wights, Coldhands, the Night Queen. Coldhands did not pass for human for the fairly obvious reason that his hands are ice cold and pitch black. As he tells Bran quite frankly later on - blood pools in the body's extremities when circulation stops and congeals. Bran also observes that when he speaks there is no puff or cloud of warm breath visible in the bitterly cold air that surrounds them all. He may keep his face carefully hidden but it's still clear he is not breathing. I don't remember that his eye colour is remarked on but if it was ice blue there would be another obvious sign there was something wrong. We don't know much about the Night Queen other than Old Nan's tales but there was something easily noticeable and obviously wrong about her appearance: the bright blue eyes and freezing cold skin of a wight. Val doesn't resemble either of these at all.

The only reason to suspect Val is anything other than who she seems to be is that single reference to eye colour. I think that is a mistake not a clue. Val is fine.

[Ghost's Shadow]

It's a hips incident. Nothing more, nothing less. Small questions could have helped, too.

[Morienthar]

Wait, so Jon is gay but has to marry Val for the Kingdom? And he gets together with Val's brother in the meantime...?

What no he misdescribes Renly's eyes a couple of times.

[Ghost's Shadow]

Lol.

A horse changed gender a few times, too, if I read correctly. Didn't see it in the text, just in the 'woops' part.

It's apparently why someone by the name of Ran checks his chapters now, for the details. ;)

[Nausicaä]

She's also originally described as blonde, but in ADWD her hair is described both as blonde and the color of "dark honey". If we set aside crackpot theories, I think it's just a mistake or just a different lighting in the scene.

[kissdbyfire]

I'd noticed this too, but I think it's the same as with Renly (green eyes, blue eyes), just a slip of the pen. :)

[Not a kneeler]

GRRM changed his mind.

[yolkboy]

and even more importantly, her breath is visible in the cold air. This would imply that in any case she is still warm-blooded.

Excellent display of sleuthing skills. Most impressive.