Tyrion's parentage

[KMLeB]

I know there has been a lot of talk about Tyrion's father in the past, and that a lot of people have very strong feelings about Tyrion either being a Lannister or a Targaryen, but I am new to the forums and haven't seen this yet, so here goes...

Why can't Tyrion be both a Lannister AND a Targaryen?

We are told in aDwD that Aerys Targaryen had the hots for Joanna. GRRM doesn't really throw things in the books for no reason, so this is probably significant in some way.

His mother, Joanna was a Lannister before she married Tywin. She was his cousin by blood. Now, from my understanding, one of the big reasons people want Tywin to be his father is so Tyrion is still a kinslayer. Well, he would still be a kinslayer, regardless of who his father is because his mother was a Lannister by blood... Joanna being a Lannister could also explain Tyrion's wits [being a descendent of Lann the Clever on his mother's side] and how he can at times act like Tywin [personality can run in the family to some degree/also he was raised by Tywin].

Aerys being Tyrion's father would explain some of his physical features too. He gets the green eye from the Lannister side and the dark purple eye from the Targaryan side. And the light hair would be a combination of the two.

...

Continuing on this thought, it would be interesting to see how Dany reacts if Tyrion is in fact her half-brother and Jon Snow is in fact her nephew. While they would be related to her by blood, they would also be half Lannister and half Stark respectively. Dany does not like the Lannisters or the Starks, but would their Targaryen blood be enough for her to accept them?

[Lady Beyond the Wall]

We already have Jon pinned as a secret Targ. Aegon comes back from the dead, and his legit is doubted, there really shouldn't be another secret Targ. Doesn't mean that there isn't, but it won't make an interesting story. It will be exhausting.

[Frey Kings]

This settles it!

1. Daenerys

2. Jon

3. Tryion "the imp" Targaryen

[Dany Girl]

I don't think Joanna counts as kinslayling, dying in child birth is common. If it is kinslayling then Jon, Dany, and possibly Benjen are all kinslayers, along with MANY others. You can't blame a baby for its mother's death during child birth.

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

You are new here, so I'll be gentle. This theory is a well known one and is widely detested. I hate it with every fibre of my being. It ruins the father-son dynamic between Tywin and Tyrion and why the hell would Tywin continue to serve Aerys if he'd been banging his wife?

[Dany Girl]

You are new here, so I'll be gentle. This theory is a well known one and is widely detested. I hate it with every fibre of my being. It ruins the father-son dynamic between Tywin and Tyrion and why the hell would Tywin continue to serve Arrys if he'd been banging his wife?

I agree. I think of all the theories floating around this is the one that I hate the most. It takes so much away from Tyrion's journey for me. I cannot even express how much I hate it except this... :bang:

[Tristifer Mudd]

You are new here, so I'll be gentle. This theory is a well known one and is widely detested. I hate it with every fibre of my being. It ruins the father-son dynamic between Tywin and Tyrion and why the hell would Tywin continue to serve Aerys if he'd been banging his wife?

It might ruin the father son dynamic between Tywin an Tyrion but it enhances the brother dynamic for Jaime an Tyrion.

Jaime kills the Mad King who is Tyrions father

Tyrion kills Tywin who is Jaimes father

To me Tyrion is a Targaryen and the only reason Tywin stuck around serving the Mad King was because he had no proof. What was Tywin suppose to do go in front of the court and call Aerys a rapist? I think Tywin was smart enough not to do anything that might risk his House

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

It might ruin the father son dynamic between Tywin an Tyrion but it enhances the brother dynamic for Jaime an Tyrion.

Jaime kills the Mad King who is Tyrions father

Tyrion kills Tywin who is Jaimes father

To me Tyrion is a Targaryen and the only reason Tywin stuck around serving the Mad King was because he had no proof. What was Tywin suppose to do go in front of the court and call Aerys a rapist? I think Tywin was smart enough not to do anything that might risk his House

I disagree. Tywin has the same reasons to love Tyrion as Jaime, yet he doesn't, which is what makes Jaime special. Take away Tywin's reason to love Tyrion and you lose that. Tywin would've resigned at the very least, like he did when Jaime joined the Kingsguard.

[Danielsnag]

No way Tyrion is anyone but Tywins son. It would be utterly pointless and ruin a great dynamic between the two, as a previous poster said.

Jamie and Cersei being Targs on the other hand would be interesting. It would knock Cersei off her high-horse, I mean, she would now be a bastard.

There's also Jamies vision where his mother says something like "All Tywin ever wanted was a son who was a Knight and his daughter to be queen" then starts crying, while Jamie says but I am a Knight, and Cersei is a queen. This would also mean Jamie killed his father, Kinslayer and Kingslayer.

Though I reject this theory as well. I just think it's more plausible then Tyrion being a Targ.

[nekrohsis]

As a major Tyrion fan who wants desperately for him to ride a dragon, I have to say that no, he shouldn't be a Targ. Jaime and Cersei, I'd like, but not him.

[Light a wight tonight]

If Aerys was Tyrion's father and Tywin was aware or even just suspicious of it there's no way that Tyrion would have lived, especially since Joanna died giving birth to him. He'd have been smothered or just allowed to starve. The story would be that he was born dead.

[JonNonRegis]

I have an insane theory: Tyrion is the son of Tywin and Joanna Lannister.

[Dany Girl]

It might ruin the father son dynamic between Tywin an Tyrion but it enhances the brother dynamic for Jaime an Tyrion.

Jaime kills the Mad King who is Tyrions father

Tyrion kills Tywin who is Jaimes father

To me Tyrion is a Targaryen and the only reason Tywin stuck around serving the Mad King was because he had no proof. What was Tywin suppose to do go in front of the court and call Aerys a rapist? I think Tywin was smart enough not to do anything that might risk his House

I disagree. If anything, I think Jamie being son of Aerys would make more poetic sense.

-Ty and Jamie would have both killed their fathers.

-Jamie is both kingslayer and kinslayer

-Jamie and Cersei's love would have been acceptable because Dragons practice incest

-Cersei would have been rightful Queen

-Joffery, Myrcella and Tommen could have a legitimate claim to the throne.

-Cersei shares personality traits with Aerys

-Jamie would have stood by as his father raped his wife (Aerys' wife)

basically, Jamie and Cersei being the children of Aerys would make more sense and muck up less of the story than Ty would.

adding: I don't really buy this theory, but I'll be more ok with it than with Ty. I believe there are too many secret identities as it is. Not everyone's parentage is a secret, some (most) people are who they think they are.

[Lady Beyond the Wall]

I have an insane theory: Tyrion is the son of Tywin and Joanna Lannister.

Whoa whoa whoa, that is way to direct!

To OP: But seriously.....GRRM has a fantastically complex character in Tyrion. He needs no secret lineage!

[Ser Greg of House House]

I know people hate the Tyrion Targ theory. I think it would be bad too.

But... There are enough signs to believe it may be true. I mean...They are arguably the 3 central characters. They have the most chapters (except Arya has more than Dany, but Dany has Selmy). Their mothers both died in the same way, something that stinks of blood sacrifice. There's talk about a 3 headed dragon.

It's very appealing. I hope it's not true or that Martin doesn't reveal it. But it makes a lot more sense than other theories. You may dislike it, but it's not crackpot at all.

[Sordelor]

I don't really believe it.

[Dragonknight0687]

I don't really understand the disdain over this theory. Tyrion is one of my favorite characters in all works and all media of fiction and storytelling.

If you ask me the theory holds water, and there's loads of evidence that points to tyrion being a targaryen.

His physical appearance: One green eye and one appearing to be a very dark purple

It's believed that it takes death to birth a dragon. If this is true, and the R + L = J theory holds true, then jon, dany, and tyrion all had mothers die during childbirth, making them the three heads of the dragon.

Tyrion's fascination with dragons

Tywin's dying words, "You ... you are no ... no son of mine." Possibly just an expression of general resentment, but I think it within the realm of possibility that it's a confession of sorts.

It could also explain some of Tywin's unconditional resentment of tyrion if he knew or believed him to be the product of aerys raping, or possibly seducing Joanna.

I also vaguely recall tywin saying something along the lines of 'you are my son, since I cannot prove otherwise' during an argument with tyrion. Again, possibly just am expression of resentment, but I find it an interesting choice of words.

I think the theory without a doubt has legs, and would be pretty damn awesome if it came to be true.

For a character who's been dealt a pretty shit hand, (being born a hideous, misshapen dwarf without a mother who died giving birth to him, being resented by his father for it, and about a dozen other reasons regardless of his achievements and his intelligence, being hated by his sister, never receiving any credit for his accomplishments, being despised by the general public, the list goes on and on) would it not be a pretty redeeming fate if he were to ride a dragon?

[Dr. Pepper]

His physical appearance: One green eye and one appearing to be a very dark purple

Your theory starts sinking fast when your first piece of evidence is incorrect. Tyrion has a green eye and a black eye.

[The Knight of Greenfield]

This is one of the most annoying things i have read, one of the key points of the lannister arch is that despite the hostility between them tywin and tyrion where very very similar, not having them as father and son is just crazy

[Dragonknight0687]

My mistake. I was under the impression that it directly described tyrion's eye as being black, but appearing to be a very dark purple. They do mention some targaryens as having deep purple eyes that can appear black, and he does however have pale blonde hair as well as black, not the normal gold color you would expect from the product of two lannisters.

I have faith that GRRM will do tyrion justice regardless of his fate, I just think it'd be cool for him to end up being a targaryen.