Sansa Stark

[drstrangelove]

What's the obsession with Sansa? Everyone's projecting other people strengths onto her. She has done nothing in this series to deserve the veneration she gets from these forum's as a "player" in the got.

[The Drunkard]

Any examples?

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

May I politely suggest you read the Pawn to Player threads.

[IRON BANK]

First Sansa survived as a hostage and escaped. 2 potentential: She is learning from one of the best in the game LF. The man who helped bring down Ned, and played the Lannisters like a harp. 3 She is a developing character who throughout the series has begun to become more vocal and stronger in resolve this will lead to an eventual culmination of success.

[Sansa_Stark]

May I politely suggest you read the Pawn to Player threads.

I suggest you don't and come up with your own conclusion.

But OP has already done that so its fine.

I don't see Sansa ever becoming a real player. And I do wish the best for her. Just not power.

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

I have my own conclusion, but if the OP read the threads, they will get answers to their question.

"What's the obsession with Sansa? Everyone's projecting other people strengths onto her. She has done nothing in this series to deserve the veneration she gets from these forum's as a "player" in the got. "

1: What's the obsession with Sansa.

​Well I'd say that whilst Sansa gets a lot of people writing on this forum that she inspires no more obsession than other characters, I believe everyone of the main characters has multiple threads regarding them. But seeing as so many feel Sansa is given undeserving attention. I'd suggest reading the threads in order to understand what it is about her that people find so fascinating.

2: Everyone is projecting other peoples strengths onto her.

I disagree, I feel that this is a very one dimensional view of Sansa and shows that the reader paid very little attention to her as a character, dismissing her as unworthy of their attention as she is an adolescent girl. If you read the threads you will see that Sansa has many of her own strengths, she has a complex and interesting character which reflects multiple aspects of classic writing and also clearly is being shown as on a personal journey. One which many can relate to and which reflects many of the problems women growing up in the real world face.

3: She has done nothing to deserve the veneration she gets from these forums as a "player" in the GOT.

Well this is untrue, and again shows a dismissiveness of female characters as unimportant and unremarkable. Sansa has shown that she can survive in a hostile state of captivity, she has learnt from mistakes, she has shown intellect and an abillity to be subversive in spite of her captivity, some of her one liners to Joffrey are hilarious. She is stoik when faced with Joffreys abuse. She shows tenacity in her resolve to remain an upstanding lady in spite of the posistion she is in in KL, when so many would behave recklessly and get themselves killed through pointless displays of defiance she is intelligent enough to realise her best armour is her curtesy and she utalises this to great effect. She never out right defies anyone but she uses her courtesies to keep a shield around herself. Never stepping too far out of line. Her refusal to kneel for Tyrion was about the clearest act of defiance she made. But she was in a position where she knew they were not likely to kill her, they clearly had a plan for her which required her alive. So she took the opportunity to show a little fuck you to them

She is astute enough to realise that while LF will not be taking her to WF or allowing her her freedom that she can use him and is indeed proceeding to do so. I don't think you'll find many saying she IS a player more that she is on the path to becoming one. LF's lessons combined with her own observations in KL are it would appear sending her down that path.

If you read the threads you would be privy to some fantastic essays and superb comments which outline the ways in which sansa is changing and growing and many theories as to where her path might go.

So I suggest reading them, as it would give a much clearer answer than one is able to provide in just one short post.

The threads are many but they are worth dipping into even just to get a glimpse into what it is people like so much about Sansa.

She was always in my top 3, but the more I re read the more I evaluate and the more time I spend reflecting upon her the more I like her she has gone from joint in my top three to a definitive second. My number 1 favourite is not popular in many quarters but at least you don't get multiple threads asking for validation as to why people like him so much....could that be because he is a him not a her?

Actually you get plenty of folk bitchin on Jon, but I do think less than you do with Sansa.

[Sansa_Stark]

I was suggesting to the OP come with his own conclusions, not you.

The P2P topics....

<_<

[Queen of Whores]

Well this is untrue, and again shows a dismissiveness of female characters as unimportant and unremarkable.

...

My number 1 favourite is not popular in many quarters but at least you don't get multiple threads asking for validation as to why people like him so much....could that be because he is a him not a her?

While I completely agree with much of what you said regarding Sansa, why must you jump to conclusions that just because somebody doesn't like a character, who happens to be female, you assume it's because these people are automatically dismissive of women and have no respect or appreciation for them? It's very ignorant and single-minded. I know it's very edgy to like a female character because obviously every male reader has no respect or patience for them, but please.

[ghosts in winterfell]

What's the obsession with any other character? People like her because they find her arc interesting. I am one of these people.

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

hahaha, well I guess at least I gave a fuller answer to the OP's initial questions.

Soz.

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

While I completely agree with much of what you said regarding Sansa, why must you jump to conclusions that just because somebody doesn't like a character, who happens to be female, you assume it's because these people are automatically dismissive of women and have no respect or appreciation for them? It's very ignorant and single-minded. I know it's very edgy to like a female character because obviously every male reader has no respect or patience for them, but please.

Yea I suppose I am a bit quick to judge.

I am only reflecting what I have observed on the boards this past year though. I am open to hearing about male readers who like sansa or should I say who see the many layers to her characters place within the story.

In fact I'd LOVE to hear them, so far I am only aware of mladen.

[Sansa_Stark]

While I completely agree with much of what you said regarding Sansa, why must you jump to conclusions that just because somebody doesn't like a character, who happens to be female, you assume it's because these people are automatically dismissive of women and have no respect or appreciation for them? It's very ignorant and single-minded. I know it's very edgy to like a female character because obviously every male reader has no respect or patience for them, but please.

If someone makes fun a female character for being a "slut" than yes, you can assume they are a sexist.

If someone holds female characters to a different standard than male characters you can assume they are a sexist.

However, if people dislike a certain female character, that does not make them sexist.

Try other explanations. Maybe GRRM doesn't write likable female characters?

[Sansa_Stark]

Yea I suppose I am a bit quick to judge.

I am only reflecting what I have observed on the boards this past year though. I am open to hearing about male readers who like sansa or should I say who see the many layers to her characters place within the story.

In fact I'd LOVE to hear them, so far I am only aware of mladen.

Yo.

I like the character of Sansa and I happen to be a guy.

The fanbase turned me off for quite the while, but rereading her chapters recently I am willing to relike the character.

I just don't think she's meant to be this great player or anything.

[The Wolf Lord's Daughter]

This is probably going to end ugly, nearly all Sansa threads do.

I think she'll become a player, just not in the duration of the series, she's too young. Even Littlefinger wasn't a player at 14. And certainly not Queen in the North, I object to the killing of any more Starks. The problem with Sansa (well, not really her, more like the readers) is that either she's considered the greatest player that will ever exist, and since "it's obvious if we read her chapters properly", she will also become Queen of the North, Riverlands and the Vale together. Or she's the wicked witch, more vicious than Cersei, has more blood on her hands than Dany, a selfish b*tch who ditched her family to chase after a psychopath. Then there are those who see her more neutrally and take into account both the good and the bad when evaluating her. This is a rather quiet part of the fandom.

She's a very interesting character and does have a lot of potential, so yes, we should discuss her. I personally enjoy her arc

Though I've got to admit there are times when it seems like she's got more threads than Stannis and R+L=J, which I usually think impossible.

[Ser Lewis]

This is going to get messy.

[King Tyrion I]

What's the obsession with any other character? People like her because they find her arc interesting. I am one of these people.

:agree: Me too.

[Queen of Whores]

If someone makes fun a female character for being a "slut" than yes, you can assume they are a sexist.

If someone holds female characters to a different standard than male characters you can assume they are a sexist.

However, if people dislike a certain female character, that does not make them sexist.

Try other explanations. Maybe GRRM doesn't write likable female characters?

Maybe I've missed something, but where did anyone call Sansa a slut?

I find female characters George writes to be very likable and unlikable, just like the male characters. Arianne is one of my favourite characters, so I suppose I have disproved a myth somewhere that male readers always pass Arianne off as being a slut, since I'm assuming she was the implied target of said word.

As to the other poster above asking if there were any other males who liked Sansa, I find that question a bit insulting, honestly. Do you honestly mean to imply only one male liked Sansa? That is completely ignorance. Just because I don't go around grovelling at the feet of Sansa and making heaps of posts about her greatness that is apparently so overlooked by men doesn't mean I don't like her. I find her to be one of the most likable PoV characters we have. Do I get a silver medal for being the second male to ever like her?

[Sansa_Stark]

Maybe I've missed something, but where did anyone call Sansa a slut?

I find female characters George writes to be very likable and unlikable, just like the male characters. Arianne is one of my favourite characters, so I suppose I have disproved a myth somewhere that male readers always pass Arianne off as being a slut, since I'm assuming she was the implied target of said word.

As to the other poster above asking if there were any other males who liked Sansa, I find that question a bit insulting, honestly. Do you honestly mean to imply only one male liked Sansa? That is completely ignorance. Just because I don't go around grovelling at the feet of Sansa and making heaps of posts about her greatness that is apparently so overlooked by men doesn't mean I don't like her. I find her to be one of the most likable PoV characters we have. Do I get a silver medal for being the second male to ever like her?

It was an example. If someone slut shames a female then they are obviously a misogynist.

My point was directed in general.

You see people whining about how hated Dany, Cersei and Cat are and some people merely assume its because misogyny.

My point was, it may not be. It may be because the characters themselves are polarizing whether Martin intended it that way or not.

[Mladen]

Ah, the good old Sansa hating thread wrapped in not so clever wrapper of a question...

I am only reflecting what I have observed on the boards this past year though. I am open to hearing about male readers who like sansa or should I say who see the many layers to her characters place within the story.

In fact I'd LOVE to hear them, so far I am only aware of mladen.

Thanks for mentioning me, but I am sorry, I am not the only one... There are many male posters on the boards who truly are champions of her, and defend her in many occasions from the nonsensical claims - Ragnorak, Lummel, mormont, E-Ro, Pod... I am just the loudest :)

[Erkan12]

What's the obsession with Sansa? Everyone's projecting other people strengths onto her. She has done nothing in this series to deserve the veneration she gets from these forum's as a "player" in the got.

:agree:

She is the worst Stark in the story.